Do clients improve or make knives worse?

While this thread is back up I'll add one more comment...

I know a lot of collectors fancy themselves as creating, guiding and directing the custom knife industry. However, most of the time they really just perpetuate existing trends and genres. When something truly new and innovative comes along it normally takes the collectors at least 5-10 years before they start to look at it seriously. It takes years and years to get new ideas into the mainstream,... at the maker's expense. This fact makes it very risky business for professional makers and smiths to take any chances on new ideas.

Although most of the true innovations come directly from the makers themselves,... it takes both makers and collectors to create a new trend or genre. In order for this industry to grow and evolve, collectors and makers must work together. In the long run, it takes both.

Collectors must learn to take risks and chances too! :)
 
Tai Goo said:
Collectors must learn to take risks and chances too! :)
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Since this thread IS back up, I'll make two comments, specifically to you, Tai.

1. Collectors take risks and chances, every time they buy a knife.

2. Any collector ill-informed or trusting enough to pay full price up front deserves what they get. It is poor practice no matter how you slice it. There is no incentive for the maker to complete the work. They ALREADY got paid.


Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Since this thread IS back up, I'll make two comments, specifically to you, Tai.

1. Collectors take risks and chances, every time they buy a knife.

2. Any collector ill-informed or trusting enough to pay full price up front deserves what they get. It is poor practice no matter how you slice it. There is no incentive for the maker to complete the work. The ALREADY got paid.


Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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I think most makers put a very high value on their reputations, and will go beyond the call of duty when given the opportunity. A little faith goes a long way!

Of course,... there are exceptions to every rule.

If you look at collecting or knife making like gambling then… the greater the risk, the greater the potential return.

I’d like to see more support from the collectors towards newer makers and ideas, that’s all. :)
 
STeven, a hungry dog hunts harder.
 
Tai Goo makes a good point about buyers taking risks, for makers to make something new, out of the ordinary and truly innovative, there must be an incentive or at least not a disincentive. It is disheartening if a maker makes something that is really new if it stays on the table show after show or have to be discounted to the point where its not economical while the familiar and the repetitive sell well for good prices.

We see this all the time where a maker's recognition for the truly innovative comes a long time after and its the secondary sellers that benefit when the previously unpopular knives make good money.
 
Often times,... by the time the innovation makes into the mainstream, the innovator himself is already off on something new. At this point the innovation may generate millions and millions of dollars for the "practitioners", secondary markets and knife industry in general.

The innovator continues to innovate,... and starve. True innovators never stop innovating.

For new trends to occur,... it takes innovators, practitioners and collectors.
 
Kohai999 said:
2. Any collector ill-informed or trusting enough to pay full price up front deserves what they get. It is poor practice no matter how you slice it. There is no incentive for the maker to complete the work. They ALREADY got paid.
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You imply that makers only care about money. This is quite the oxymoron, as there is precious little money in knifemaking.

I suspect 99% of makers see money as a necessary evil in the transaction, not as the sole reason to toil over a hot forge or sparky grinding wheel. In fact, I would bet the vast majority of makers value their reputation and the craft itself more than their profit margin, and that paying up front would not affect the product or the delivery.

Just my humble opinion.
 
Tai - the commonplace that innovators starve is completely wrong. Dumb innovators starve. Smart innovators who produce something that really meets a need, and are business savvy become (reasonably) wealthy - for examples see Henry Ford, Thomas Edison and Ben Franklin. True innovators don't starve unless they are completely stupid in the way they conduct their business.
 
Patapsco Mike said:
I suspect 99% of makers see money as a necessary evil in the transaction, not as the sole reason to toil over a hot forge or sparky grinding wheel. In fact, I would bet the vast majority of makers value their reputation and the craft itself more than their profit margin, and that paying up front would not affect the product or the delivery.
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Mike,

People often accuse me of being an idealist, and optomist, so I understand your statement.

My experiences say different. Any maker with a family, and especially makers who are the sole income earners look at money in very black-and-white terms. Have it or don't have it. Have it, family eats, don't have,family starves.

The list of well-intentioned good guys that got stuck in a rut due to health problems, mental or physical, and stopped meeting scheduled delivery dates is as long as my arm. If you want to compound that by paying up front, be my guest, but I won't, and won't order from makers that have the order contingent upon payment up front.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
"Smart innovators who produce something that really meets a need, and are business savvy become (reasonably) wealthy" Joss

Innovators who become "practitioners", of their own innovations,... maybe, more probably.

What is "wealthy"?
 
I know most collectors make more "money" than I do,... but I can still make a knife that most of them couldn't afford, or wouldn't want anyway,... any time I get the urge,... just for the sport of it.

I have what I need!

I DON'T NEED NO STINKING BOSS!

... I guess that makes me pretty darn wealthy! Hee hee hee :)
 
...and thank you to all of those who have had faith in my work and helped me get to where I am.

Life is good! :)

(IT'S NOT ABOUT ME.) :)
 
Joss said:
Tai - the commonplace that innovators starve is completely wrong. Dumb innovators starve. Smart innovators who produce something that really meets a need, and are business savvy become (reasonably) wealthy - for examples see Henry Ford, Thomas Edison and Ben Franklin. True innovators don't starve unless they are completely stupid in the way they conduct their business.
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No personal offense intended Joss, but from a purely academic and logical standpoint, there is nothing "dumb" or "stupid" about it,... aside from your own perspective and post.

You might need to get out your dictionary.
 
Tai Goo said:
I know most collectors make more "money" than I do,... but I can still make a knife that most of them couldn't afford, or wouldn't want anyway,... any time I get the urge,... just for the sport of it.

I have what I need!

I DON'T NEED NO STINKING BOSS!

... I guess that makes me pretty darn wealthy! Hee hee hee :)
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Many of us would not choose to live in a trailer.

It really is about choice, and needs. Actually, I would be happy living in a hole in the ground like a hobbit, but my wife requires a house, and I "need" her.:D

I would not choose to order a knife directly from you, as you don't need a boss.

I would not want a knife from you, because your design and aesthetic doesn't match mine very well, but do find your skills refined, and certain design elements quite unique, refreshing, and compelling.

We both live happier that way.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
From the point of view of the buyer: My makers are totally free and often they try something special.I accept their dreams and are willing to let"them dream the impossible dream"(Don Quichote de la Mancha)
 
I find it offending when some makers must produce things they hate, for me you have to respect this artists
 
deovolens said:
I find it offending when some makers must produce things they hate, for me you have to respect this artists
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When ever a maker makes something they hate, or under sells, just to please a collector,... they discredit themselves, disservice their clientele and the industry in general.
 
Tai Goo said:
While this thread is back up I'll add one more comment...

I know a lot of collectors fancy themselves as creating, guiding and directing the custom knife industry.
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I ordered my first custom knife today. I broke new ground by requesting mamuth and dumbasskuss. You'll probably be reading about these materials soon. :p

Seriously though, the knife maker told me what the basic style would be for my price and use and what steel and handle materials he had available. I told him the type of steel and handle material and requested certain colors be present in the handle material. He responded with a digital photo of the ivory to be used. Done deal.

So, now I await my first (er, uh, I meant "only") custom knife. 3 3/4" pocket knife with a 3" Devin Thomas Banded Ladder Damascus drop point blade with blue mammoth ivory scales. I can't wait to see how it turns out.
 
I've been in this business a long time, 30 years in 2008, and have pretty much heard and seen it all. I guess I shouldn't get so excited or take any of it personally. It's hard not to though when it is your life long career and sole source of income...

Most collectors are fun, easy, respectful and a pleasure to deal with. A few are bossy and obnoxious. The beauty of it is that a maker can pick and choose which ones he wants to deal with or not.

No one can force you to make a knife,... and no one can stop you from making a knife.

My advice for knifemakers is, no matter how desperate for money you are, don't take any orders for knives that you don't like, don't feel good about, or don't want to make. If you can do this, then... it's all good! :)
 
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