Do super stainless steels have a place on Bushcraft knives?

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MatthewSB

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
1,615
I wanted a Bark River Gunny for a long time, and finally decided to try the newly released version in Elmax super stainless steel. I'm getting over my "big knife" phase, and I'm starting to prefer thinner, lighter knives with blades right around 4".

Everything I read about Elmax makes it sound like it's extremely difficult to resharpen. I've had to sharpen knives constantly when actually using them in the woods, but they were also A2, 1095, etc. not exactly supersteel. My "go to" knife for the last year or more has been a Bravo 1 in S35Vn and my experience has been that it stayed 'sharp enough', even if barely, until I made it home to my pile of sandpaper and leather.

Do you think that super stainless steels have a place on a dedicated 'bushcraft' knife? I'm not asking anyone to redefine terms or anything, just curious if you would bring a knife into the woods for a weekend that you knew to be difficult to resharpen.

I think that even if this Elmax Gunny is difficult to resharpen, it should stay sharp significantly longer, possibly making a more ideal knife for hiking and camp chores. I'll post a review after I get a chance to test this one out, just curious what others have found.
 
In my opinion, super steels are used on the premise that you won't need to resharpen it until you're out of the field and have access to specialized equipment. Tool and carbon steels often require resharpening but the flipside is it is easy to do so with simple, ad hoc equipment. I think it's worth trying both.
 
I don't think the sintered steel edge of my Fallkniven TK2 is considered 'supersteel' but it can go a week of field use without sharpening. Assuming I don't do anything stupid with it, of course. After a week it's still sharp enough to shave arm hairs cleanly, if not actually make them fly off in sheer terror like at the start.

Besides, it's not that hard to carry a DC4 diamond/sapphire sharpener to touch it up if needed. I've always been able to wait until I get home and retouch the edge with diamond lapping film.

So I would say such steels certainly have a place in this role. I haven't got to try elmax yet but I think I would like it!
 
That's my take on supersteels:
1. I think the knife industry needs to come up with something new, to keep the business going. But new doesn't necessary means better IMHO;
2. While the edge retention may be improved, I don't like the idea that that I have to upgrade my sharpening system (aka specialized equipment), or to spend considerably longer time sharpening in order to be able to maintain an edge on a supersteel.
3. In my personal experience,after the hype of a 'better' steel is gone I find myself going back to steels I'm comfortable using and enjoy maintaining (like ol good O-1, A-2 or 1095). A right grind with a good heat treat do the trick for me.

Your mileage may vary, but that's where I'm at.

As far as elmax goes, I only had a folder and a Scrap Yard fixed blade with this steel. I used them lightly and I wasn't able to notice any difference compared to other steels. I wasn't impressed either, but honestly I can't really express an opinion on this particular matter.
 
If you have to 'spend more time," something is wrong with the steel - like microchipping in normal use. The ability to resist wear should mean no more total time spent due to less frequent need for sharpening.

Now if the knife comes dull, all bets are off, and shame on the maker.
 
MatthewSB said:
Everything I read about Elmax makes it sound like it's extremely difficult to resharpen. I've had to sharpen knives constantly when actually using them in the woods, but they were also A2, 1095, etc. not exactly supersteel. My "go to" knife for the last year or more has been a Bravo 1 in S35Vn and my experience has been that it stayed 'sharp enough', even if barely, until I made it home to my pile of sandpaper and leather.

........

I think that even if this Elmax Gunny is difficult to resharpen, it should stay sharp significantly longer, possibly making a more ideal knife for hiking and camp chores. I'll post a review after I get a chance to test this one out, just curious what others have found.
Click to expand...


Hi buddy. Before even addressing your question about sharpening "super steels" I am curious about the comments you made that I quoted above. I have to ask, what is your intended use of a 4" blade knife in the woods? What tasks have caused you to sharpen A2 or 1095 constantly while in the woods? If you could provide a little more information, maybe it would help those trying to provide an answer.

I'll hold my comments for now....

Thanks! :)
 
I think some people here share my issue- and that is- we get a little hinky at the thought of a less-than-screaming-hot edge befalling one of our knives for any length of time... The "regular" folks out there don't tune up their edges NEARLY as much as we here, or so I would imagine.

Back to the OP- and to Schmittie's feedback- I can't imagine "needing" to resharpen after a 2 or 3 day event. Unless I was using an opinel to hack through bone for hours per day or something ;) I know we all LOVE the feeling of a finely tuned cutter. But sometimes its less about the knife and more about the overall experience in the woods, no? Let that 1095 get dull in use. Bring it home on Sunday night and give it the spa treatment.
 
MatthewSB said:
Do you think that super stainless steels have a place on a dedicated 'bushcraft' knife? I'm not asking anyone to redefine terms or anything, just curious if you would bring a knife into the woods for a weekend that you knew to be difficult to resharpen.
Click to expand...

For me, the trade-offs simply aren't worth it. I place 'ease of maintenance in the field' infinitely higher than 'stainless' on my priority list.

P.S. = the Gunny sure is a great knife. Very comfortable handle, and it really hits the 'sweet spot' in size for an all-arounder, imo. I have one in A-2 and the "Hunter" version in CPM-3V.
 
Last edited:
if you have to resharpen A2 frequently, you're doing something wrong or the blade is ground too thin. It's twice as tough and twice as wear resistant as 1095 and takes a stupid keen edge. I suspect changing steel type won't solve the problem, especially going to a stainless with larger grains and carbides.
 
As a practical matter, Busse's INFI is reasonably "stainless". It's durability has been proven. And it's easy to sharpen.
There's lots of models to choose from on the resale market... But they're pricey.
Closest thing to your description the Busse shop is selling now... http://www.bussecombat.com/the-son-of-badger-sob/ , if it appeals to you. But there are better models for bushcraft.
 
I know that reasoning by false analogy is a risk, but a lot of this sounds like rejecting a 1 qt water bottle on the sole grounds that it's faster to refill a 1 pt. water bottle. So it takes longer. The need arises less often.

Tougher argument I understand completely.
 
G'day Matt

Talk about opening a can of worms. LOL

No offense intended, but I will continue to base my choice's based on personal experince here in Australia regarding steels that "have shown they do the job", rather than rely of "internet opinions".

Out of curosity, before anyone bag's out modern stainless steels , my simple question is ......"can they show that they are experienced enough to make a comment in the first place", and secondly, "can you provide video evidence to back up your opinions"?

I personally have spent a number of years posting video evidence to show that modern stainless steels perform differently from the ignorant opinions that are too common on the 'net.
 
Well, since I haven't "spent a number of years posting video evidence," you should probably just disregard my ignorant opinion, based as it is on inexperience. :D
 
Smithhammer.... I am curious to the review of the gunny in Elmax. Please ping me when you post it. I have an eye on that blade as a gift. I wouldn't be concerned with opinions IMO, they are like.... we all have one and they all stink.
 
Super stainless is the face of the future, and for some is the now already.

A steel that holds its edge longer, doesn't corrode very easily, and is capable of supporting a thinner sectional geometry that used in a lesser steel would just flop over is very desirable. That most of the knives made in stainless super steel are clownish lumps designed to dragnet armchair flickers doesn't negate that.

What is conspicuously missing?

1] Mebe some toughness, but really, how tough does a knife need to be? Surely, tougher the better at all costs is a bit of a tunnel vision. When it is tough enough you can load up on other attributes, can't you?

2] Doesn't have the “mother sewed my name tag sewed inside” individuality of some of the old school corrosion/patina stuff. That said, same as on a cycling forum when a guy rocked up asking how to stop his bolts going rusty and some nurk said “just wipe them over and let them patina”, the overwhelming response to that “quaintness” was “get better bolts”, and “do you think that about your car?”. Shoddy kit is shoddy kit, even if people use terms like pre-loved to describe commonplace 2nd or 3rd hand.

3] Low wear resistance means it will sharpen easier and on a wider variety of materials. Get some better sharpening materials and learn some skills. Really, let's not get into the BS survival tut that you forfeit the ability to sharpen on your sock, and that may cost you your life, or anything like that. Simply put, you might have been able to bluff your way through sharpening in the days of yore, dubbing a scratchy short lasting edge on a bit of simple steel, but it is becoming harder to now. And it isn't the tool it is you.

Generally speaking it strikes me that actual knife users as opposed to knife molesters tend to favour thinner knives that cut readily and don't require much in the way of a diaper change. If not super stainless steels what is going to lead the charge in that direction?

I like knives, period. Most hold some sort of interest for me. There's no escaping the above though, it's coming. Is it here already? Dunno, stick a Spyderco Southfork in S90V in this thread and see if any old school steel contenders can come anywhere close to what it can do.
 
I too think the knife industry must come up with newer and so called improved steels or the market could become stagnet. With that said, I have some "super steel" in my folders like the pm2 and love them but as far as a bushcraft knife goes, I personally would prefer a simpler steel that is easier to sharpen with a pocket stone lkke the dmt or doublestuff. I wouldnt want to carry an Edge Pro in the field just to keep my bushcraft knives sharp.

I also dont like idea of having to buy more sharpening equipment just to keep my knives sharp or having to spend 10x the amount of time to sharpen them on my current equipment.

Just my opinion! :)
 
RWT said:
Smithhammer.... I am curious to the review of the gunny in Elmax. Please ping me when you post it. I have an eye on that blade as a gift. I wouldn't be concerned with opinions IMO, they are like.... we all have one and they all stink.
Click to expand...

Hey RWT -

Sorry if my previous post was confusing. I don't have the Gunny in Elmax (nor do I have plans to buy one at this time), I was just commenting on the design of the Gunny in general, which I really like. And both the A-2 and CPM-3v versions I've had have performed very well.

Speaing of that, CPM-3V might just be the best compromise I've used. It doesn't patina or stain as easily as many other tool steels (not that I reall care much about that anyway), but it is also reasonably easy to maintain in the field in my experience, providing you take the time to strop it regularly and not let it get too dull before being touched up. And it takes a wicked edge. I'm very impressed with that steel. :thumbup:
 
Thanks for the replies everyone.

The knife arrived and it was just too small for my preferences.

Unfortunately I will have to try Elmax in a different knife. Looks like it's back to the 3V Bushcrafter....

schmittie said:
Hi buddy. Before even addressing your question about sharpening "super steels" I am curious about the comments you made that I quoted above. I have to ask, what is your intended use of a 4" blade knife in the woods? What tasks have caused you to sharpen A2 or 1095 constantly while in the woods? If you could provide a little more information, maybe it would help those trying to provide an answer.

I'll hold my comments for now....

Thanks! :)
Click to expand...

My intended use is carving tools and making big and thick pieces of wood into small and thin ones for a fire. Also, cutting cheese, sausage, and other easy to pack foods.

The tasks that have caused me to resharpen 1095 and A2 are listed above, though I doubt it was the cheese and sausage that dulled the knife.

I guess that I've probably unnecessarily sharpened my knives when out, but there really isn't too much to do out there once camp's set up.
 
With regards to sharpening, both at home and in the field, I really don't see much of an issue with supersteels vs. carbon steels. Yes, my SGPS TK2 takes longer to sharpen, but not that much.

I like to finish on diamond film or diamond paste on cardboard, but that's just because I'm obsessive. All it really takes is standard SiC paper on a hard backing; same as I mostly use for everything else. I find softer backings that I might use for a convex edge on other steels (A2, Infi, whatever) don't work so well on the SGPS but other than that, there's little difference. Easy enough to carry in the field, as many of us probably do. No extra kit required whatsoever.

Anyway, I thought part of the pleasure of being a knife nut was spending time sharpening... lol. Suddenly it's a problem :confused: ;)

Fallkniven's own pocket sharpening stones, the DC3 and DC4, are diamond on one side and sapphire ceramic on the other. They make very short work of touching up the edge of VG-10 or SGPS, or anything else, and weigh in at only 65g for the bigger DC4. I don't generally touch the diamond side as it's too aggressive and not necessary for the fine edges unless you like it toothy. I did use the diamond side for re-profiling the tip of my Fallkniven A1 when I stupidly broke it off; made the job easy. Then I finished off with the ceramic side. Took about an hour to repair a nearly 1/8 inch tip loss to the point (pun) that you couldn't tell it had been done. OK, VG-10 isn't as hard as these supersteels, but still...

I am by no means an expert at sharpening, no way near it, despite having done it for maybe 35 years. My hand skill is rubbish. I actually do have fine motor control issues and use hand sharpening 'therapeutically'. Even so I have no problem getting a hair-popping edge on SGPS with SiC paper. Add a bit of diamond lapping and it's hair-whittling. Maybe 50% more effort required than A2 or infi, that's all. whether in-house or in a tent.

I realise I'm not talking about elmax but SGPS; I think SGPS is in the same league though.
 
sir_mike said:
I too think the knife industry must come up with newer and so called improved steels or the market could become stagnet. With that said, I have some "super steel" in my folders like the pm2 and love them but as far as a bushcraft knife goes, I personally would prefer a simpler steel that is easier to sharpen with a pocket stone lkke the dmt or doublestuff. I wouldnt want to carry an Edge Pro in the field just to keep my bushcraft knives sharp.

I also dont like idea of having to buy more sharpening equipment just to keep my knives sharp or having to spend 10x the amount of time to sharpen them on my current equipment.

Just my opinion! :)
Click to expand...

Why would you spend 10x the time? Do the current "super steel" knives really have such a ratio of use time to sharpening time?

I do recall when Buck abandoned Surper Steel (440C), allegedly due to complaints about sharpening.

Why use as Edge Pro at all? Why not free-hand?



And not for you, mike, but does mixing one part scorn with every part of reason actually make a more convincing argument?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top