Do super stainless steels have a place on Bushcraft knives?

[Hammer67]

Here's my question for those of you who've been using the powdered steels like 3V...

My question is... which of the super stainlesses can be easily field sharpened with nothing more than a Diafold (or its equivalent)? By "easy", I mean 5 minutes of time or less.

Pinnah -

CPM 3V isn't a "super stainless" but all of my 3V blades are convexed, so I don't carry a stone in the field at all (or use one at home, for that matter). In the field, I carry a small leather strop, loaded on each side with a different compound, and a couple small pieces of 1500 and 2000 grit sandpaper. It's a small and lightweight field kit that's easy to have with me in the backcountry. Like I was saying above, I find that the key to 3V is simply staying "ahead of it," by stropping it regularly during use, rather than letting it get truly dull before doing anything to maintain it. If I do this, then yes, I can keep an excellent edge maintained in just a few minutes. But truth be told, 3V has such good edge retention that I often don't have to do anything to it in the field at all (keep in mind that I largely use my knives for cutting tasks, and the large choppers I own are made in other tool steels more suited to their size and task, imo).

In my experience CPM3V is easier to maintain in the field than a "super stainless" like S35VN or CPM154.

 

[Woods Walker]

Most knife nuts probably have 2 or 3 knives they bring to camp anyway, and I'd probably bring both carbon and stainless, depending on what I was doing. I use a Work Sharp Field Sharpener, and it's worked very well on some of my stainless knives with high edge retention/hardness, as long as they were sharp when I brought them out (and why wouldn't you?).

I know one big argument for carbon steel is that you can start fires, but I'd question anyone that didn't also have a ferro rod/lighter/etc. As for sharpening, some of the super stainless out there are not bad at all to sharpen. I've had worse experiences with trying to sharpen D2 than M390.

I thought the thread was about Bushcraft? Survivalist and Preps are also good topics but they're not Bushcraft however could employ Bushcraft skills. Most people who start fires using a carbon steel knife to generate sparks do so because Bushcraft is a hobby. I guess the same goes for other knife related activity and Bushcraft. For example I am using a 1095 carbon steel knife to pratice friction fire.





Or in these cases to make a spark to start fires. 80crv2 and 1095.





Beyond practice using these skills in the woods:

[video=youtube;9_K0APSkokc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_K0APSkokc[/video]

I do carry a lighter, matches and firesteel but will start fires using more primitive methods because it's part of my hobby. Also downright fun and skills are very ultralight. Gosh I have never noticed a problem with any properly heat treated knife of reasonable quality to get most jobs done within a knife's design limitations.

 

[Hammer67]

....Gosh I have never noticed a problem with any properly heat treated knife of reasonable quality to get most jobs done within a knife's design limitations.

There's a lot of truth in that. :thumbup:

 

[sodak]

Here's my question for those of you who've been using the powdered steels like 3V...

IMO, one of the big appeals of carbon steel and small carbide stainlesses (lke 420HC or Sandvick 12C27) is there ability to be easily sharpened on basic stones.

It occurs to me that small diamond stones like the DMT folding Diafold sharpeners are a real game changer, (supposedly) allowing for the higher carbide powdered steels to be (as I'm told) sharpened with ease.

My question is... which of the super stainlesses can be easily field sharpened with nothing more than a Diafold (or its equivalent)? By "easy", I mean 5 minutes of time or less.

All of them, assuming they are properly ground (not too thick). My Wilson's are easily 2 minutes or less.

 

[B34NS]

My intended use is carving tools and making big and thick pieces of wood into small and thin ones for a fire. Also, cutting cheese, sausage, and other easy to pack foods.

Sounds like you need an axe. Really digging the wetterlings fine forester's features to really have some edge control for finer wood processing and in your budget. Sounds like your knives are fine enough as is, a treated strop would really help too for both the axe and knife.

Particle steels in knives are still kind of a novelty in the camping/outdoor knife world in that to make them, sure takes longer to initially grind and sharpen. Alloyed steels have been used in culinary knives for a long time. Just don't put your knives through wood/rocks/dishwasher or take them too far without upkeep otherwise bringing them back takes some real patience. If you want to do a spoon, I suggest the Morakniv Wood Carving 164 Hook Knife. Save all that sharpening time at night to afford a nice relaxing look up at the stars with a beer instead.

On the wetterlings and GSO 3.5 3V, probably only needed about 30 seconds strop time total over the course of a week in the sierra backcountry.

 

[fmajor007]

I would think there is a place in "bushcraft" for super-stainless steels though it's probably important for the user to identify what the most important criteria is to them for their version of bushcraft.

For me, my field-knife/knives need to perform a multitude of tasks and I'm OK if other materials out-perform it in a single-purpose application. I'm pretty intentional about maintaining my knives so stainless-steel isn't as important a criteria for me, but others may regard that quality more highly so a super-rust-resistant stainless-steel knife is more important. I'm uber pleased with what Bryan Breeden made for me out of O-1, but that's me...

If a knife material was easily sharpened with simple means/materials, held an edge as equally long as other "top performers", was equally "strong" (not too hard/brittle, but not too flexible/floppy) as other materials AND retained oxidation resistant properties like "stainless steel", wouldn't that be the "Holy Grail"?


Whatever material these qualities came from would be irrelevant because all the criteria for a knife blade would be met - whether it was from a purely "stainless steel" or some new, as-yet-discovered metallurgical conglomeration.

 

[me2]

For the uses described by the OP, if they are going dull that fast, something is wrong with the edge, steel, sharpening, or use. Or the OP has a very particular opinion on how sharp a knife should stay. In either case, switching steels likely won't help.

Generally speaking, the super steels would be fine fir most stuff, but sharpening certain grind styles can be time consuming. They are pricey sometimes though.

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day pinnah

Here's my question for those of you who've been using the powdered steels like 3V...

IMO, one of the big appeals of carbon steel and small carbide stainlesses (lke 420HC or Sandvick 12C27) is there ability to be easily sharpened on basic stones.

It occurs to me that small diamond stones like the DMT folding Diafold sharpeners are a real game changer, (supposedly) allowing for the higher carbide powdered steels to be (as I'm told) sharpened with ease.

My question is... which of the super stainlesses can be easily field sharpened with nothing more than a Diafold (or its equivalent)? By "easy", I mean 5 minutes of time or less.

For the moment forget the relatively "new discovery's" available today on the 'net, and look back to the knowledge that was common years ago.

Any knife, irrespective of the steel or grind, can be sharpened with a hand held diamond stone. If it also has a ceramic side then you can also apply a level of polish to the finished edge.

IMO, before you swallow the opinions expressed by those who profess that convex edges need stropping on a mouse mat or leather backing, with Black/Green compound (the only good ones avaible only from ....) or CBN stropping sprays (only available from .....), have a look at these individuals and satisfy yourself that they spend enough time outdoors to satisfy you that they are outdoorsmen and not just marketing their product on the 'net for personal profit.

After using the Fallkniven DC 3 & 4 for 12C27 (both Mora and brk) , Buck 420 HC, Fallkniven VG10 (@59 RC) & SGPS (@ 62RC), various companies S35VN & S30V, Elmax (@ 61 RC), Roselli super high Carbon @ RC 65, 3V, 4V, O1, A2, 52100, 1095
I can tell you that the DC stones quickly restore a working edge.

Since you have paid exactly $0.00 for this advice, treat it for what it's worth.


Mick

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Sh

Thanks for my first good laugh of the morning, Mick. .....

I'm pleased I've been able to pay back all the laughs I have had over many years by reading posts on the brk subforum over at mikeforums.com

Mick

 

[Rhinoknives1]

I wanted a Bark River Gunny for a long time, and finally decided to try the newly released version in Elmax super stainless steel. I'm getting over my "big knife" phase, and I'm starting to prefer thinner, lighter knives with blades right around 4".

Everything I read about Elmax makes it sound like it's extremely difficult to resharpen. I've had to sharpen knives constantly when actually using them in the woods, but they were also A2, 1095, etc. not exactly supersteel. My "go to" knife for the last year or more has been a Bravo 1 in S35Vn and my experience has been that it stayed 'sharp enough', even if barely, until I made it home to my pile of sandpaper and leather.

Do you think that super stainless steels have a place on a dedicated 'bushcraft' knife? I'm not asking anyone to redefine terms or anything, just curious if you would bring a knife into the woods for a weekend that you knew to be difficult to resharpen.

I think that even if this Elmax Gunny is difficult to resharpen, it should stay sharp significantly longer, possibly making a more ideal knife for hiking and camp chores. I'll post a review after I get a chance to test this one out, just curious what others have found.

It wasn't anymore than 3-5 years ago that CPM-S35VN was the "Super Steel"

Carry on and have fun!

 

[B34NS]

Too true Rhino. I find it funny that the term "Super Steel" is even catching on in the chops wood with knives space.

I don't think bushcraft has a place with high alloy tool steels as to me, these steels were designed for cutting other steels. Sure they'll make fine knives, but I don't think the person chopping kindling with a $200 blade really cares about doing anything right in the first place. I can't foreseeable see a real world argument for that level of overkill, but hey if it makes you happy and excited to get outdoors, have at it.

 

[me2]

Just FYI, most of the "Super Steels" were designed as injection molding die steels for corrosive plastics.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

I think stainless super steels like M390, ELMAX, S35Vn CTS XHP etc... definetly have a place in bush craft. In my personal experience these steels are not significantly harder to sharpen than traditional steels like 1095. As long as you have thin edge geometry, even CPM 10V is pretty easy to sharpen with a good stone. If you have a thick edge and a big bevel then a super steel can be more difficult to sharpen but a thick edge defeats the very purpose of using these steels.

Something else to keep in mind. If all you are doing is push cutting wood, it doesn't matter whether you are using a high wear steel like M390 or a standard carbon steel like 52100. In my experience, when push cutting wood, the primary mechanism for loss of sharpness is chipping or rolling and not wear. Carbide content isn't very important in this type of work compared to strength, toughness, and edge geometry.

With this said, stainlessness is always a great attribute and higher carbide content will make your knife cut more aggressively and hold an edge longer if you do work like skinning and game processing, or abrasive material slicing. I like a knife that can cover alot of bases so I tend to go with high alloy steels. Stuff like 1095 or 12c27 makes a solid bushcrafting blade, but they are not going to excel at game processing or slicing like M390 will.

 

[Woods Walker]

Too true Rhino. I find it funny that the term "Super Steel" is even catching on in the chops wood with knives space.

I don't think bushcraft but I don't think the person chopping kindling with a $200 blade really cares about doing anything right in the first place.

I don't understand the statement.

 

[stabman]

I don't understand the statement.

Pretty sure it's a snide way of insinuating that anyone who spends their cash on "higher end" steel is a fool lacking in "real world" skills.
Seems to be a opinion that floats around the forums from time to time.

So I'm going to prove I have "mad skillz" and go back to basics; from now on I'll have to gnaw pieces of wood in half like the noble beaver.
It's the only truly authentic way to go.

 

[Woods Walker]

I like a knife that can cover alot of bases so I tend to go with high alloy steels. Stuff like 1095 or 12c27 makes a solid bushcrafting blade, but they are not going to excel at game processing or slicing like M390 will.

I believe in skilled hands a knife made of 1095, 12c27 or M390 will excel at whatever task need. In the hands of those without skill the outcome will suck no matter the steel. People have been processing game with sharp stuff for a long time. Some probably excel at it.

 

[Woods Walker]

Pretty sure it's a snide way of insinuating that anyone who spends their cash on "higher end" steel is a fool lacking in "real world" skills.
Seems to be a opinion that floats around the forums from time to time.

So I'm going to prove I have "mad skillz" and go back to basics; from now on I'll have to gnaw pieces of wood in half like the noble beaver.
It's the only truly authentic way to go.

LOL! I am going to wait for the author to explain. Maybe I will let my finger nails grow.

 

[Myal]

Entertaining thread , even if the funnier parts were meant to be serious
For me , the answer to the OP is maybe .. sounds like youre going to baton on your blade some .. I dont like to baton on stainless , had bad experiences there , but ymmv .. some folk do and have no issues
super stainless steels .. I guess they do have a place in bushcraft its found a place in most other areas .. I dont see why it wouldnt have a place , stainless is pretty noob friendly , and everyone is a beginner sometime so yeah why not ?

Sorry Im still giggling at the nit picking between bushcraft and camping / bushwalking ... seriously ?? People draw a line between these activities ?? how does one know if one is performing a bush craft .. or camping .. or actually surviving nowdays ? gosh Im SOO out of touch

 

[foxyrick]

People draw a line between these activities ?? how does one know if one is performing a bush craft .. or camping .. or actually surviving nowdays ? gosh Im SOO out of touch

Come on now - that's obvious. Just look at which knife is being used... :devilish:

 

[Woods Walker]

Sorry Im still giggling at the nit picking between bushcraft and camping / bushwalking ... seriously ?? People draw a line between these activities ?? how does one know if one is performing a bush craft .. or camping .. or actually surviving nowdays ? gosh Im SOO out of touch

I think all of those are related however things like prepping and survivalist might be different though could certainly use Bushcraft skillz. I guess it all depends on perspective and intended context.

Come on now - that's obvious. Just look at which knife is being used... :devilish:

LOL! Could it actually be a survival situation if the person isn't using an official "survival" knife?