Do super stainless steels have a place on Bushcraft knives?

[baldtaco-II]

Why would you spend 10x the time? Do the current "super steel" knives really have such a ratio of use time to sharpening time?

I do recall when Buck abandoned Surper Steel (440C), allegedly due to complaints about sharpening.

Why use as Edge Pro at all? Why not free-hand?



And not for you, mike, but does mixing one part scorn with every part of reason actually make a more convincing argument?

I heard that too and was very suspicious. I wondered if the truth of it is that the lesser steel is more easy to machine. Something that gums up a lot of belts is likely less profitable.


I don't know if it makes it more convincing. I think one would have to examine the mechanisms of attitude change on a case by case basis. However, there does seem to be a certain inevitability about it when something that shouldn't have been in place is outed. Bit like when that statue of Saddam toppled and folks all rushed in to beat it with their shoes. Adds a social comedy value to an otherwise dreary bombardment.

 

[schmittie]

if you have to resharpen A2 frequently, you're doing something wrong or the blade is ground too thin. It's twice as tough and twice as wear resistant as 1095 and takes a stupid keen edge. I suspect changing steel type won't solve the problem, especially going to a stainless with larger grains and carbides.

You highlighted well what I was thinking. Thanks Daizee!

Last year I purchased my first BRKT, a Gunny in A2. I used it to field dress and debone two deer last year. For those that do not hunt or butcher game, let me tell you, I feel it is a great test of a knife. Steel and bone don't get along too great and it's inevitable to rake your knife edge on bone somewhere in the process. Especially in removing the loins. The edge never chipped or rolled. It stayed screaming sharp and needed no touchup between animals. I've carved with it, made feather sticks and other fire prep needs. It's a great blade. This is my first knife in A2 and it is my dedicated hunting knife from now on. I am very happy and very impressed with it.



You know, if you have trouble with A2 from BRKT, it could be a bad HT and a dud. I've heard of them having small problems every now an again. But they would warranty it and take care of you I'm sure.

 

[sir_mike]

Why would you spend 10x the time? Do the current "super steel" knives really have such a ratio of use time to sharpening time?

I do recall when Buck abandoned Surper Steel (440C), allegedly due to complaints about sharpening.

Why use as Edge Pro at all? Why not free-hand?



And not for you, mike, but does mixing one part scorn with every part of reason actually make a more convincing argument?

I dont think it would take 10x the amojnt of time, I just exaggerated that thinking that someone might not have much sharpening stuff so it could and would take alot longer to sharpe the higher end steels. Some folks might take an hojr to reprofile a vg-10 blade so I guess someone might spend 5-6 hours or more depending on equipment and skill level. I peobably shojld have said 3x and not 10x...LOL

Just trying to make a point, which I failed...I also dont own an Edge Pro, just trying to make a point on carrying some big kit instead of carrying something like a doublestuff or small diamond store.

 

[baldtaco-II]

Respect the candour.

 

[Brew-Jitsu]

I think some people here share my issue- and that is- we get a little hinky at the thought of a less-than-screaming-hot edge befalling one of our knives for any length of time... The "regular" folks out there don't tune up their edges NEARLY as much as we here, or so I would imagine.

Back to the OP- and to Schmittie's feedback- I can't imagine "needing" to resharpen after a 2 or 3 day event. Unless I was using an opinel to hack through bone for hours per day or something I know we all LOVE the feeling of a finely tuned cutter. But sometimes its less about the knife and more about the overall experience in the woods, no? Let that 1095 get dull in use. Bring it home on Sunday night and give it the spa treatment.

:thumbup:

 

[guns_and_labs]

Do super stainless steels have a place on Bushcraft knives? Sure. Why not.

When I'm out doing bushcraft-y or woodcraft-y type stuff, I usually have D2, O-1, or A-2. Occasionally 1095. And I usually touch it up at night just because I need something to do at the campfire. But I also have carried S35VN, VG-10, 3G. For a weekend, I can't convince myself they need touching up, so I just leave it to when I get home. So, if I didn't think I would have time to touch it up, or if I had hunting on the agenda, I would happily carry a "super steel".

I would also add that diamond paste on a strop or stone cleans up the super steels quickly.

The one place I really think super steels earn their keep is for fishing or hunting, though. Salmon fishing cries out for S90V. Pig hunting for S35VN, VG-10 or 3G.

 

[Brew-Jitsu]

Most knife nuts probably have 2 or 3 knives they bring to camp anyway, and I'd probably bring both carbon and stainless, depending on what I was doing. I use a Work Sharp Field Sharpener, and it's worked very well on some of my stainless knives with high edge retention/hardness, as long as they were sharp when I brought them out (and why wouldn't you?).

I know one big argument for carbon steel is that you can start fires, but I'd question anyone that didn't also have a ferro rod/lighter/etc. As for sharpening, some of the super stainless out there are not bad at all to sharpen. I've had worse experiences with trying to sharpen D2 than M390.

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Sh

Well, since I haven't "spent a number of years posting video evidence," you should probably just disregard my ignorant opinion, based as it is on inexperience.

Was that the sound of a dummy being spat?

BTW, personally I have done exactly what you suggest for close to a decade and ignored internet opinions about a "knife in use" that isn't backed up with evidence.

I am always amazed at the defensive attitude of those who regularily post on the net and yet take offense whenever anyone ask about evidence of using a knife.

After all, if a person has a modern digitlal camera that will snap a pic of a shinny Carbon steel knife in an outdoors setting, surely they can show the same knife in use in a video? Assuming of course they do more than carrying it with them. :thumbup:

Or is it a matter of confusing bushwalking / camping, with bushcraft?

Simple resolution in IMO. Rather than just take a glam pic of the knife you take with you, use the recording feature of the same camera to show the knife in use.

 

[Hammer67]

G-day SC -

I sincerely appreciate your obvious passion for 'bushcraft' and the fact that you apparently take it all quite seriously. I truly do.

But personally, I really couldn't care if what I do in the outdoors is considered "bushcraft" or mere "bushwalking/camping" or whatever it may be. It's just not important to me. I simply have three decades of lots of wilderness travel and hunting under my belt, including extended trips in some of the more remote places in the Americas. And I usually carry a knife or two with me in those situations, and use it when needed. As such, I've used a lot of different knives over the years. But I don't go outdoors in order to spend a lot of time contriving uses for my knives, and then documenting every aspect of it. Guilty as charged.

So yeah, I could probably help legitimize my opinions by providing video of such, but as I said above, that would require me taking this all a lot more seriously than I do, so it probably won't happen. I'm just out there to have fun. If that means that you are going to assume that my opinions are "inexperienced" then so be it. It's really no skin off my back at all.

Have a great day, and keep up the good work.

 

[Brisket]

I have a Gunny Clip Point Scandi in 3V that, although I wish were a tad larger in the handle, gets a fair amount of use in my user rotation. I have no real interest in having a Gunny in any of the stainless variations that BRKT offers as I am more than happy with the CPM-3V for my uses.

I am not anti-stainless by any means having several customs and production fixers in stainless. I actually prefer a high wear resistant stainless in a dedicated hunting or fishing knife but with a field/utility knife like I consider the Gunny to be I just don't think it would be an overall improvement over 3V for my uses considering the tendency to give up toughness for higher wear resistance. If I were in a higher humidity locale I might think differently.

Interestingly, Ankerson has ranked Elmax and CPM-3V in the same general category for wear resistance in his rope cutting tests. Now that I think about it, though, I'm not sure he meets the decades of video posting experience criteria to meet SC's minimum credibility standard.

As far as my Elmax experience goes I have a Spyderco Mule Team Elmax and a couple of the Scrapmax models. I would say it is near the front of the mid-pack in terms of edge retention among my own herd of super stainless steels and I base that mostly on Mule Team to Mule Team matchups. I have no personal experience with BRKT's Elmax.

 

[sodak]

Speaing of that, CPM-3V might just be the best compromise I've used. It doesn't patina or stain as easily as many other tool steels (not that I reall care much about that anyway), but it is also reasonably easy to maintain in the field in my experience, providing you take the time to strop it regularly and not let it get too dull before being touched up. And it takes a wicked edge. I'm very impressed with that steel. :thumbup:

I really have to agree with this, 3V is one of my favorites for this use.

To the OP, if it takes a long time to sharpen it, then you might want to consider having it professionally reground. With DMT diafolds, I spend less than a couple of minutes on a dull knife in 3V. Any more, and I get impatient. With diamonds, no steel should take very long to sharpen unless it is unreasonably thick, IMO.

My opinion is worth what you paid for it, so as always, YMMV. No decades of video experience here either, but then again, if we all have to go that far, it's time for a break from forums in general. I think most of us can get a sense of someone's knowledge and experience from the tone and general information of their posts.

 

[Big Mike]

Do super stainless steels have a place on Bushcraft knives?

I think the line between stainless steels and other steels is becoming blurred in today's fast developing metallurgical industry.

With the ability to produced steels with much higher levels of alloying agents, tool steels are getting more stain resistant while stainless steels get tougher as well as offering better edge retention.


With "super steels" we still have the choice of selecting a steel with maximum toughness/edge retention/corrosion resistance, but the ability to find blades that balance those three properties as greatly improved.



Big Mike

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Sh

......
.....Guilty as charged.......

WTF?

Out of curosity, are you gullible enough to accept advice from someone who hasn't shown you, that they actually know what they are talking about?

If you are, I have the Sydney Harbour bridge for sale at a good price.

Or, is the 'net somehow different, where anyone with an unsubstantiated opinion, is accepted by everyone as talking with "real first hand experience" in order to not offend them and remain popular on that forum?

If that's the case, then internet forums have become nothing more than a joke in their chase for traffic. :thumbdn: :thumbdn:


Mick

 

[neeman]

I feel we are too bound by modern marketing however sopisticated and subtle it is.

We understand form follow function
But function has been hyped to very narrow windows, which then limits form
A hightly defined task now needs the very specific specialized gear.
Slightly shift the task and you need to re-equip, and spend more money

Where is the simplicity?
What are you going to use it for?
Is it comfortable to hold, is the blade big enough and will it hold an edge long enough for you.

Suddenly one simple knife will work very well indeed

 

[foxyrick]

Neeman, that makes a lot of sense!

It's something I realised along time ago in the kitchen; I like to cook, a lot. In another life I might have been a chef, lol.

The number of gadgets, knives included, we can buy to do little tasks in the kitchen is incredible. At one time I sort of bought into that, and I certainly got a lot as gifts.

Eventually I remembered that I could do almost everything with one of three knives. Perhaps not quite as quickly as the task-specific knife or gadget allowed, but not far from it. By the time I added cleaning all those gadgets into the equation, they got put back into the cupboard and have hardly been seen for years. My three main knives never get put away.

 

[Hammer67]

WTF?

Out of curosity, are you gullible enough to accept advice from someone who hasn't shown you, that they actually know what they are talking about?

.....

Thanks for my first good laugh of the morning, Mick.

Back on topic:

I think the line between stainless steels and other steels is becoming blurred in today's fast developing metallurgical industry.

With the ability to produced steels with much higher levels of alloying agents, tool steels are getting more stain resistant while stainless steels get tougher as well as offering better edge retention.


With "super steels" we still have the choice of selecting a steel with maximum toughness/edge retention/corrosion resistance, but the ability to find blades that balance those three properties as greatly improved.

Couldn't agree more. I don't think it's as simple as merely "stainless" vs. "carbon" any more. :thumbup:

But getting back to the start of this thread, whether or not someone wants a "stainless" steel for a bushcraft knife seems entirely the realm of preference.

 

[Woods Walker]

I think it only matters to those who care. Lots of crafters are perfectly happy with 12c27, 1095, O1 etc etc etc. However there are people who might want something else.

 

[Brisket]

Spyderco has a new Chris Claycomb designed NASA Bushcraft knife in development in a FFG S90V but it is said to be intended more as a general purpose outdoor knife featuring the wonderful handle of the Spyderco Bushcraft UK knife rather than a purely bushcraft dedicated knife. I'm looking forwared to it as I am a big fan of the Claycomb handle and S90V is one of my favorite stainless steels. It will be interesting to see how it is received by the more hardcore bushcrafters as well as general outdoor users. As Big Mike pointed out I think we will see continued blurring of the lines when it comes to steel classifications.

 

[sodak]

Spyderco has a new Chris Claycomb designed NASA Bushcraft knife in development in a FFG S90V but it is said to be intended more as a general purpose outdoor knife featuring the wonderful handle of the Spyderco Bushcraft UK knife rather than a purely bushcraft dedicated knife. I'm looking forwared to it as I am a big fan of the Claycomb handle and S90V is one of my favorite stainless steels. It will be interesting to see how it is received by the more hardcore bushcrafters as well as general outdoor users. As Big Mike pointed out I think we will see continued blurring of the lines when it comes to steel classifications.

If it's FFG with S90V, it should be quite a knife. Can't wait to see it!!!

 

[pinnah]

Here's my question for those of you who've been using the powdered steels like 3V...

IMO, one of the big appeals of carbon steel and small carbide stainlesses (lke 420HC or Sandvick 12C27) is there ability to be easily sharpened on basic stones.

It occurs to me that small diamond stones like the DMT folding Diafold sharpeners are a real game changer, (supposedly) allowing for the higher carbide powdered steels to be (as I'm told) sharpened with ease.

My question is... which of the super stainlesses can be easily field sharpened with nothing more than a Diafold (or its equivalent)? By "easy", I mean 5 minutes of time or less.