Do Tanto style blades really affect performance?

harkamus said:
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Oh. My. God.

Please tell me this knife is still somehow available, for trade or sale.

I was struck by lightning.
 
CWL said:
I used "introduced" for a reason.

I would have used "invented" or "created" if that was what I meant.

Notice I also used the word "probably"?
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Then how could LT "steal" it??? Did he steal it from the Japanese, or BL?
If BL "probably introduced it to the U.S. did he steal it from the Japanese???
 
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Everyone has an opinion these days ! geez... :D

It used to be that a tanto tipped blade would not be my first choice for EDC simply because other blade shapes tend to be more useful , then I found for what I do , it really doesnt matter too much.
My EDC off and on for a couple of years now have been either a EKI CQC , an original axis style Cold Steel Recon1 , or as of late a Benchmade Lfti. All of them work just fine for my needs ( you would be amazed what a great tool the front edge of the tanto is for utilitarian purposes )

To each their own....

Tostig
 
This is true what Tostig said for the American style as well if the edge geometry is right. I bought my bro a tanto Grippy a few years ago. That thing was so dull, I couldn't cut paper with it. Once properly sharpened though, it's pretty great.
 
The tanto's alleged "superior performance in penetration" may be unwarranted hype after all. The "proof" videos usually involve sheet metal targets. Sheet metal doesn't simulate flesh and bone, nor is it a good analogue for bushcraft materials. The tanto tip punches through the sheet metal, then the rest of the blade's length merely slides through the hole with little or no resistance. That's fine if all you want to do is poke some drain holes in a barrel or somesuch. If you need to drive that knife into a berserk pitbull, on the other hand, the tanto will not penetrate well because that tip must cut all the way in. Furthermore, IMO the tanto tip's grind is actually too obtuse to be very efficient. Sure it's a strong tip that won't easily break off or bend, but it seems to me that tip strength and penetration efficiency are INVERSELY proportional.

Regarding that alleged "snap cut advantage" involving the radical transition point between the primary edge and the secondary edge, well... that's only useful in a highly improbable knife duel. It's hard to imagine two antagonists duking it out with largish fixed blades in this day of CCW permits and Baby Glocks. The snap cut advantage is virtually a myth.

I will say that tantos are fairly easy to sharpen and strop FWIW.
 
RandomAyes said:
The tanto's alleged "superior performance in penetration" may be unwarranted hype after all. The "proof" videos usually involve sheet metal targets. Sheet metal doesn't simulate flesh and bone, nor is it a good analogue for bushcraft materials. The tanto tip punches through the sheet metal, then the rest of the blade's length merely slides through the hole with little or no resistance. That's fine if all you want to do is poke some drain holes in a barrel or somesuch. If you need to drive that knife into a berserk pitbull, on the other hand, the tanto will not penetrate well because that tip must cut all the way in..
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I'd say worrying about the ability for ANY knife to penetrate flesh is a non-issue.

RandomAyes said:
Regarding that alleged "snap cut advantage" involving the radical transition point between the primary edge and the secondary edge, well... that's only useful in a highly improbable knife duel. It's hard to imagine two antagonists duking it out with largish fixed blades in this day of CCW permits and Baby Glocks. The snap cut advantage is virtually a myth.
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I'm with you there
 
I read in some Japanese literature which I wish I could find now to cite that the tips weren't designed for penetration anyway more so than they were for aesthetics. Really, they were just there for the opposing swordsman to have something 'nice' to look at. Given certain light angles, they could also confuse the opposing swordsman in terms of gauging how long the other's blade actually was.

Now that could all be speculation, but I did read it in some Japanese book on sword anatomy. I'm trying to find it as we speak.
 
Tell you what go do a real world test, stab a tire with a Buck 110 and then with a Recon 1 with the old style of Ultralock Tanto and tell me your theory holds water. It won't, I know because I have done it.
The Tanto goes in easier, that is just a fact of life, like water is wet and fire is hot.

As far as snap cuts, yep that is a myth too, like getting mugged at night or carrying a gun everyday when not paid to.

If a knife is what you got, a knife is what you use, improvise adapt overcome.

I always get a kick out of the theory guys on this site the ones that live by what they read and then preach what they read.
 
harkamus said:
I read in some Japanese literature which I wish I could find now to cite that the tips weren't designed for penetration anyway more so than they were for aesthetics. Really, they were just there for the opposing swordsman to have something 'nice' to look at. Given certain light angles, they could also confuse the opposing swordsman in terms of gauging how long the other's blade actually was.

Now that could all be speculation, but I did read it in some Japanese book on sword anatomy. I'm trying to find it as we speak.
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This is somewhat correct. I believe one school thought the use of the yokote as a method of blocking view of the enemy from telling the length of the blade with the tip, although to be perfectly honest this was likely made up as it would require the sun to be in your face in which case there were numbers of techniques that were of advantage to the enemy who had the sun on his back to use.

Although the yokote, or transitional line from blade to tip was nothing more then a side effect of shaping the kissaki (hammering of the upward point) which was meant to be a decoration. The kissaki, and yokote served no purpose in function as it was made from forging not so much* aesthetic reasons so that your enemy had something pleasant to look at.
 
marcinek said:
I think that we get hung up on blade shape, profiles, grinds and geometry because we are experienced and sophisticated knife users who want to use the best performing knife possible for the task we are doing.

If we just thought "If it's sharp and can cut, then use it wherever you like" we wouldn't be here talking about knives, would we? We'd be buying knives from the gas station and from late night TV.
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If this is true.... why so many knives on the market that are over built to the point that the thickness becomes an obstruction to cutting? Yes, I am talking about knife nuts. Almost everyone here 'should' have a full flat grind or full convex grind knife with the latest super steel either folder or fixed blade, with the AXIS or CBBL (or according to cold steel) the TRI-AD lock. everything else about a knife is ergonomics and "style"

Best for a single job.... man, I'd have to have an arsenal of knives just to keep up around the house.

With so many experienced and sophisticated users, everyone should be comfortable sharpening their knives with the best methods available.... like paper wheels, belt grinders, WEPS, EP Pro/Apex and everyone should start the day with perfectly mirror polished edges.


I'm sure you all can appreciate that american or traditional tanto knives work just as well as most other knives for most tasks, and that individual style or budget will create variety.
 
There's a difference between preaching and explaining the origins of something.

I use whatever knife is on me for whatever needs cutting within reason. Could be that tanto fixed that I posted earlier. Could also be a bowie profiled folder from DDR. Frankly, I don't discriminate. There are some very specialized blade shapes that I will not buy, however. Something like a razel has limited use for me since it has almost no tip at all.

Also, thanks for clearing that up, Luis G.
 
Never really used my CS Master Tanto for much besides night stand duty at home and hotels.I bought it in the late 80s when there was still some Ninja in me.In fact it's on the night stand now.
 
Meh. I own too many tantos. I never use them. Just not my style and I'm leaving it at that.
 
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RandomAyes said:
So I'm supposed to track down a discontinued knife and go stabbing a tire (which like the car hood is NOT a good analogue for other materials like muscle) just to test your assertion? Really?
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Heres an easy experiment.. buy a steak, and pierce it with a tanto blade.. and then a non-tanto blade... and then a scissor.. and then pen, and let me know if there if you think you would feel any real discernible difference in resistance in a heightened adrenaline filled situation

Then fix it with a dash of soy sauce, Worcestershire sauce, butter, garlic powder, on a pan over a wood fire (be careful, because it cooks very very fast).. and then enjoy :)

The wood fire burns very hot (don't use treated wood btw) and cooks so fast that it allows the outside to be seared while the inside stays juicy and pink
 
res1cue said:
Heres an easy experiment.. buy a steak, and pierce it with a tanto blade.. and then a non-tanto blade... and then a scissor.. and then pen, and let me know if there if you think you would feel any real discernible difference in resistance in a heightened adrenaline filled situation

Then fix it with a dash of soy sauce, Worcestershire sauce, butter, garlic powder, on a pan over a wood fire (be careful, because it cooks very very fast).. and then enjoy :)
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Stop it man, you're making me drool! :D
 
I have a Tanto that gets used for a purpose other blade shapes would be inferior for - in my shop, it is often necessary to heat the blade of a knife (with a torch) and push cut through certain material. The portion of a Tanto between the sub tip and main tip is ideal for this. However, I started using the knife not because of its blade shape, but because it is about the cheapest freakin knife I own and this task basically destroys the knife. I just discovered the blade shape was ideal after selecting it for this torture. So.... tantos definitely have a use lol
 
During some research on Japanese kitchen knives, I found some information that shows the 45 degree tip, chisel ground "tanto" is a specialty design for processing eels. I carried a CRKT tanto KISS knife for a while and had no issues with the shape. For skinning, I can see how it would be odd, but for work/home utility, I've had no issues.
 
Superdave1 said:
Then how could LT "steal" it??? Did he steal it from the Japanese, or BL?
If BL "probably introduced it to the U.S. did he steal it from the Japanese???
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Sure he can. Lynn T. is well known to have stolen many of his designs.

I use the words "probably" and "introduced" to be accurate, but I believe Bob Lum was the man who introduced the Americanized tanto design, but it can't be proven, nor did Bob care about stuff like that when he was alive. Bob just made and sold knives, he didn't need to fabricate a story like Lynn T. to get more sales.
 
I kind of like a Tanto for EDC, it's great for opening packages and I find it very handy
 
Just about all the major knife companies have their vers of the tanto out these days so the popularity seems to be pretty good.

I own an early CS Original 5 3/4" Tanto, bought it back in 1986, some say that was the knife that started the tanto rage in the US.
 
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