Do We Really Need This?

I personally don't care what people make knives out of. As far as this guys pitch, everyone has a right to their opinion and point of view, regardless of of how ugly or distasteful we find it. It is up to us to decide how to act on what this guy says.

The 2nd Amendment and the other Amendments in the Bill of Rights isn't so much saying what the citizens rights are, but restricting the the power of the government. The very nature of any government is to grow larger and control more of the governed. It is up to us to keep the government in check. One of our tools is the Bill of Rights. Those darn Founding Fathers were thinking.
 
If we're talking about Dan Valois here, I agree with Brian C that he is being portrayed unfairly. I have spoken to him many times and he is not a shyster. There's good reason for a belt knife against one's stomach to be made of titanium, it's called rust.
I dont agree that air travel should be off limits for carrying self defense tools. If you're gonna depend on the airlines or their employees to protect you and your family, you're a fool.I carry hard pointy objects in my pocket everytime I fly, they're called pens and can make a damn good weapon.
If there was trouble though I'd probably just get behind Glockman99 and let him clear a path:D
 
At first I was against knifes on an airplane...but after taking a lil while to reflect I have totally changed my mind. I mean yes a knife could be used as a weapon but most people on an airplane arn't going to use it as a weapon. It really comes down to how responsible that person is. Not to mention there are many other cases where a knife is needed on an airplane. For example ( even though this doesn't happen often and may seem far fetched ) a persons appendix may explode and if there is a doctor on the plane and he had a knife he could very well save that persons life.

amendment or not I think they should be allowed on planes. That includes Canada too where I live :D
 
Good point Lifter, if we are going to talk about someone like this, it would be fair to know who we are really talking about.
 
The problem is of course, that if everyone did things responsibly, there would be a lot less problems. :)

I think some of the new airplane laws are stupid too, but as i mentioned, there are larger battle to be fought and better reasons to get arrested than taking a concealed small knife on a plane.

Originally posted by *Cho*
At first I was against knifes on an airplane...but after taking a lil while to reflect I have totally changed my mind. I mean yes a knife could be used as a weapon but most people on an airplane arn't going to use it as a weapon. It really comes down to how responsible that person is. Not to mention there are many other cases where a knife is needed on an airplane. For example ( even though this doesn't happen often and may seem far fetched ) a persons appendix may explode and if there is a doctor on the plane and he had a knife he could very well save that persons life.

amendment or not I think they should be allowed on planes. That includes Canada too where I live :D
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For those of you who have never met the gentleman, lifter4Him is a large and inordinately powerful human being. If there were a problem, I would be happy to stand behind him while he slapped the creeps to Kingdom Come.

By the way, who does need a knife on a plane? Think about this -- you may have read something to this effect -- never go to a club with a metal detector out front. You may feel safer when you're in there, but when you come out, those guys hanging out in the parking lot know that you're unarmed..
 
Originally posted by Eric Litton
Actually many things around you can be used as very effective weapons. Things dont have to be considered weapons to be used as one.
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Much of what can be used as weapons have also been banned. I'd argue about the effectiveness of improvised weapons. If they were so great soldiers and cops would be carrying them. Weapons for personal defense include the following categories- edged (limited to pens- no where near as effective as a blade), impact ( the best legal ones being a flashlight or cane), flexible (needs a lot of training to use ), projectile (none legal), chemical spray (none legal, and not evry effective anyway), and thrown (pretty much anything). Yes I could use something but it is almost not worth the effort. For many imporvised weapons it is easier to use unarmed techniques instead. The odds are high that if you are in a knife fight that you will be cut. How much higher will they be if you are using a pen or a flashlight? Also many weapons require more room than you will have on a plane. I have extensive training in hand to hand combat and improvised weapons, but I'd rather use a knife or firearm. I won't say what my non-weapons are aside from a flashlight and pen. A leather jacket might be a good thing to wear as a type of anti-blade armor. Maybe cowboy boots for kicking.

Even if the screeners are competent and loyal, there are still ways for the terrorists to get edged weapons on a plane.

I'm not advocating doing anything illegal. I'm advocating changing the stupid laws.
 
Originally posted by Megalobyte
Well, one thing i will say is i dont buy the argument that preventing law abiding citizens from having a knife on board a plane will make the plane safer, to the contrary, it seems to me, it just makes the hijacker's job that much easier to be up against unarmed passengers. In fact, i can think of no safer plane than one in which several, if not all of the passengers are armed with knives and ready to resist a hijacking. A hijacker will find a way to be armed on the plane, what purpose does it serve to disarm the other passengers and make it more difficult to resist a hijacking? I have never believed that more guns/knives equals more crime. Guns and knives are tools, theyre neutral, what makes them evil or good, is the intention of the person using it.
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may have been stated earlier, but the thing with letting anyone carry whatever they want on the plane, means sure, you may be safer from people trying to hijack the plane. but it also means any terrorists may not bother hijacking the plane, and instead, they will just blow it up.

but i guess its better to at least have the chance to defend yourself, rather than not.
 
A legitimate reason for carrying a knife is self-defense - wherever you may be. The fact that criminals and terrorists use knives too does not diminish this in any way.

While it may not be legal to carry a non-metallic knife into some situations, that does not diminish the legitimacy of doing so.

So yes, we need this. You or I, personally, may not need them, but we need their existence.

Pierre
 
I just got my Brigade Quartermasters catalog this morning. They have been increasing the variety of knives they carry. (They even have Emerson's new line.) Because of this thread, I especially noticed all the non-metallics they've got for sale. Complete with warnings in red: do not carry on an airplane. :)
 
Just want to declare I was originally from Canada, believe in personal freedoms, and responsibility or accountability for one's actions. Now, law, that is another thing.

The guy had a choice to do what he wants to do or not. The sponsors of the convention had a choice to allow the vendor there or not. The customers have a choice to buy or complain about from him or not.

In Canada, you can't imagine how draconian and socialist it is up there. Censorship is rampant and most of the population doesn't even know it. Being in an unpopular minority ( i.e. gun owners, of which I was one ) was not too pleasant no matter how reasonable and sociable I was to educate others about me and my kin.

I, for one, is grateful for the freedoms your country affords me being a guest here. It's nice to have social conscience and possibly inform or educate others. The freedom that is afforded by your nation to do that for yourselves bequeths the same rights to said vendor to do what he wants.

As for legalities, I am going to leave that up to the lawyers and lobbyists...

Just my 2 cents. :footinmou
 
Another thought, being from Canada... only law abiding citizens legally procure and register their guns - criminals do not. Pardon my pragmatism here... if somebody who had sinister intentions to bring a knife onto a plane, they probably would suceed if they knew how. Law abiding citizens would do all in their power to toe the line and still comprimise in such a situation.

From my training days, I remember all kinds of non-metallic knives could be fashioned by some pretty resourceful martial artists out there. Some of them had some amazing millwright or carpentry skills.

Imagine a knife or dagger shaped, milled, and ground down from a piece of plexiglass or some modern plastic. How about a wooden knife or dagger that can be shaped to be a sharp tool for stabbing or cutting? No magnetic signature and easily hidden on the body. Last time I remembered, they don't do frisks or pat down at the airport. If they do, it is rare. The odds of somebody getting such a blade on a plane is pretty good, excluding profiling.

Just my 2 cents. :footinmou
 
Never let anyone, especially the government, question your NEED for anything.
Why do you need an assault rifle?
Why do you need a knife?
The only answer those questions deserve is: It's none of your business!

If I aint hurting anyone, and I'm not breaking any laws, then it's of no concern of the government (or anyone else) what knife I carry.

Who on this forum owns a car that goes faster than 70mph?
If you do, why?
It's illegal to drive over 70mph (at least in the vast majority of the USA), so why do you NEED a car that goes faster?

Question authority, but don't let it question you.
Allen.
 
Originally posted by shmoopiebear
Last time I remembered, they don't do frisks or pat down at the airport. If they do, it is rare. The odds of somebody getting such a blade on a plane is pretty good, excluding profiling.
Just my 2 cents. :footinmou
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They do random frisks. I was frisked by someone who seemed semi-retarded. I'm not insulting him, it it just that I've worked with the mentally retarded in the past and his mannerisms and speech seemed like that of the more intelligent ones I've worked with. Not someone I would hire for security.

There was some problems last year from the friskers choosing attractive women "at random" to "frisk." I'm not sure if they still do this.

That said, a synthetic blade that does not look like a blade will get on if carried in a handcarry. I designed one that I'm sure will work. I did not actually make it, nor will I carry it. It was more of a mental exercise I did when training to counter things like this unarmed.
 
As far as him producing them, no problem, he should have the right to produce whatever knives he wants. But him advertising them as X-Ray proof and easy to slip on planes is rather tasteless. A X-Ray proof kinfe owner may slip past security with it, but what if he doesn't? He is begging people to tempt chance and possibly end up in the Federal pokey.
 
We need to stay active in politics and voice our opinions all the time to protect the Constitution and our rights. Now that Republicans control the House, Senate, and Executive we have the perfect opportunity to change things to protect individual rights. I implore everyone to write your leaders in Congress to pass legislation concerning the protection of you and your loved ones rights. Since the internet and email the number of letters recieved by Congressmen has declined. Now is the time to take advantage of what you have. Complaining about things on the internet is fun but must be taken to the level where change can occur.

Just sharing your feelings with people you meet can have a tremendous effect on the shaping of public opinion. To some people we may seem like radicals. There is nothing radical about our God given rights.
 
This is a copy of something I posted on another forum, that I think fits in here at this point.

Our right to vote and choose our own leadership is the single most important foundation of our society.
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What is important in life and what is unimportant? How can you tell? -- by how much time you spend on it. How much time do you spend with your family and friends, on your job, watching TV ... and participating in the political process? Oh, you voted ... !

Every time you tell a professional politician what you want, he wants to give it to you. He may have other pressures on him that prevent this, but he wants you to like and vote for him. By voting, you validate his existence and preserve his employment, but you don't actually tell him why ... although the media are quick enough to explain why he won.

We come to these forums and talk to each other by keyboard, across the country and across the world. Have you ever stopped in the middle of doing something on the internet to email a copy to a friend?

Have you ever been disgusted with Our Government, Which Art in Washington -- but never, ever whimpered to a Congressman or Senator, or made up an email list of family and friends to ask them to write to your representatives and echo your arguments?

It is almost pathetically quick and easy, but very few of us do it, except for professional lobbyists! And then we complain about the lobbyists' influence.

Complaining to each other here goes nowhere. Write to your Congressman, city councilman, mayor, governor. Be heard or be herded.
 
Esav:

What a great post! I have just invented a new Award. The A. G. Russell Sword of Common Sense, awarded for the post that offers the best chance of reducing knife restrictions.

I have already selected the "Sword", actually a jungal knife proposed by a 6'6" 250 lb SF trooper in 1970 for h2h in SEAsia. I made him one by hand and by the time I got them into production, it was too late for the market. Still a great tool for the dman big enough to handle it. As soon as I have it engraved it will be on the way to Esav.

A. G. Russell
 
for one, i'm quite not sure if there would be 100 people jumping up and stabbing a terrorist in a plane, who of course would have a hostage at that time. well at least i hope that wouldn't happen, since there would be a good chance of more people getting injured. i mean, since everyone having a knife at that time will immidiately oull out his 6 knifes, thor 4 of them, and use the other two to slash anything at a range of 3 feet.

seriously, i doubt that all of you have that much combat knife experience, and one of your arguments was that the terrorist on the other hands has such combat experience. so what would your chances be, according to your own arguments ? oh yeah know everyone here is a trained martial arts fighter, probably all at least with a masters degree. that's cool.

then again, if a terrorist would hijack a plane with an m-16, would you advocate that everyone is allowed to bring his rifle into the plane ? since it's self defense... i mean, fighting a rifle with a knife would be such a smart idea, so you'd have to have at least a handgun, at best a rocket. in that case, about 100 rifle owners would jump up and empty their magazines...

i hope this never happens. as for improvised weapons: when i was flying in the US, post 9-11, they had glas bottles of vine. dunno if they still got them, but if they do a broken glas bottle is one of the fiercest weapons i know.
 
Originally posted by richardallen
for one, i'm quite not sure if there would be 100 people jumping up and stabbing a terrorist in a plane, who of course would have a hostage at that time. well at least i hope that wouldn't happen, since there would be a good chance of more people getting injured.
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I agree that no one should think having a knife (or a cane or a gun) is a sure defense against any attacker. But being unarmed is quitting before you even start.

Besides, if a knife is so little use in combat, why would the airlines or government or our wimpier friends and neighbors mind my carrying one anyway -- just for good luck? :) Or because it's a handy tool. Or a beautiful object in its own right, crafted by an artist of the finest materials.

Security comes from the Latin words for 'taking care of yourself'. It's not always easy. But it is always your own responsibility.
 
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