Do you carry firearms in the wilderness? And why?

[fishshooter]

Tallquietman1, heard pops say once, "Every day you have on this earth has a tommorrow, except one." Lots of different meanings in that, didn't get it at the time.

 

[HighDesertWalker]

A common theme here of "Well it never happened before, or I've been coming here for X amount of years". many forget, that the end of a day is in fact-the end of THAT day. Each day is different, as is each time you go out into the woods or anywhere. No more can anyone of us predict the outcome of a baseball game before it ends, no one can predict what will happen on a hike. We carry our gear for our own safety. To get the most of nature. Clothing, your favorite knife, tarps and ways to make a fire. I carry my weapon because I can't predict the world. It's a 2 pound insurance policy that has many times allowed me to come home. Every victim I have ever encountered said the same thing--"I never thought it would happen to me".
From my observation here, this forum is not made of violent people. We see knives and axes and guns as tools, as they should be. We are hikers, woodsmen, hunters and fishermen. It's been my pleasure to meet a number of you. All exceptional people. But I am also very well acquainted with the other side. They are the reason I carry my gun

Well put. I've met a few of the others myself.

 

[J. Doyle]

A common theme here of "Well it never happened before, or I've been coming here for X amount of years". many forget, that the end of a day is in fact-the end of THAT day. Each day is different, as is each time you go out into the woods or anywhere. No more can anyone of us predict the outcome of a baseball game before it ends, no one can predict what will happen on a hike. We carry our gear for our own safety. To get the most of nature. Clothing, your favorite knife, tarps and ways to make a fire. I carry my weapon because I can't predict the world. It's a 2 pound insurance policy that has many times allowed me to come home. Every victim I have ever encountered said the same thing--"I never thought it would happen to me".
From my observation here, this forum is not made of violent people. We see knives and axes and guns as tools, as they should be. We are hikers, woodsmen, hunters and fishermen. It's been my pleasure to meet a number of you. All exceptional people. But I am also very well acquainted with the other side. They are the reason I carry my gun

+1. Very well said.:thumbup:
To all those folks that ask those of us that carry, "Why do you need to carry a gun all the time?" Or say "I've been coming here or doing this for years and have never needed a gun." I say, why don't you only activate your car insurance when you know you're gonna have an accident. The chance may only be one in a million, but it is one. If it was zero in a million, I guess we wouldn't have to worry about it.

 

[Rupestris]

..why don't you only activate your car insurance when you know you're gonna have an accident. The chance may only be one in a million, but it is one. If it was zero in a million, I guess we wouldn't have to worry about it.

Great point Countryboy.

Kinda like not owning a fire extinguisher because your kitchen has never caught on fire.

 

[Quirt]

There are three questions NO ONE can answer for us:

1. Who the threat might be? (Bear, Mtn Lion, old man, gang of kids, or even a cute party hardy mom who lives in Florida!)

2. When or Where an attack might take place? (in a church, in the woods, Taj Mahal Hotel, on a cruise ship, tallest building in NY, in your home, at the mall, who knows?)

3. What it is going to take to stop the threat? (situational awareness, training, verbal commands, physical presence, your hands, feet, knees, handgun, rifle, shotgun, knife, stick, cell phone?)

Once someone can predictwith 100% accuracy when a fire will take place, where the next auto accident will be, when/where the next time I'll be stuck out in the woods again, or who, when, where an attack might take place then I'll cease to have a fire detector and fire extingisher in my home and give up my knifes and firearms.

I don't need a firearm to stop a threat...but it does make the task easier!

 

[attej]

I quess the question is what threats you think are realistic in your environment, and what you are willing to do to be ready for them. To that, there is no right or wrong answer.

But the unfortunate reality is, that too often a gun can make a situation worse. So, be safe guys.

 

[DWK2]

I'm curious what sort of wilderness situations you feel would be worsened by a gun? And when you say "too often", what percentage of situations are you thinking about?

DancesWithKnives

 

[Tallquietman1]

I am curious about that too DWK. I have asked people who wanted a gun-"Could you shoot this at a person if you had to?" If they said no, then I didn't recommend they get a gun. At that point, they might be disarmed. It doesn't always have that "cross to a vampire" effect. Or I get the "If I get in trouble, I'll call the police" From a trail? Good luck. No cop in the world can get to you in time to prevent crime. Unless it is completely by accident. The ultimate responsibility for you own protection lies with the individual. Not the police, not the government, but with you. Is your life worth fighting for? I know to most of us the answer is "Hell yeah". But for a good amount of those who wander society--they have never given it a thought. We know them as sheep.

 

[attej]

I'm curious what sort of wilderness situations you feel would be worsened by a gun?

I was of course referring to carrying a gun in general. But, as to wilderness situations, a bear encounter like this might end up pretty sadly, if a nervous hiker were to shoot and wound that bear. It rarely is necessary to shoot an animal, and wounding an animal can easily make things worse. Of course if one has nerves of steel, like that swedish guy (and most people here, of course ), they would not shoot an animal making a fake attack.

Also, I wonder which is more common: for someone to succesfully defend himself in the woods (against men or beasts), or for someone to have a gun-related accident in the woods?

And when you say "too often", what percentage of situations are you thinking about?

DancesWithKnives

By saying "too often", that's just what I mean. I dont have any percentages to throw out here, even though Im sure they could be googled if someone really wants to. Im pretty sure that statistics do not change anyones mind over this matter.

When dealing with hard core criminals, civilians do often end up getting shot with their own guns. Killing someone is a hell of a thing, most normal people cannot do it, not even when their life is at stake. For example, it is not uncommon for soldiers, in a real combat situation, to miss on purpose. Also, accidents and overkill-panic reactions can happen quite easily, especially if one sees the world as a dangerous place.

Im not saying that all gun owners, or people in this forum, act that way. Just saying, that these things happen.

 

[DocArnie]

Captain Obvious says: A gun is no substitute for training and being mentally prepared. I've never heard a supporter of gun ownership saying anything else.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

Attej: Do you notice when you opine on this topic, that you assume every hypothetical human is at their worst and weakest? Scared hikers and overgrown pubescents. But I would say the 'pro' folks in this thread embody anything but that. These are calm, intelligent people who have made decisions about their lives ahead of time, many of whom have 'seen the elephant'.

 

[jill jackson]

I always carry a pistol when hiking. I have dogs and most the time what will happen is a strange dog or dogs will be about and by firing off a round they will run away and avoid me having to deal with breaking up a dog fight.
I also just like to have a pistol and a folder with me all the time anyway, it's just a good idea and when you have a CDW permit there's no reason not to.

 

[hutch762mg]

Have had to carry guns for work and war all my life....the outdoors is the place I prefer to not have that burden. Unless hunting of course.

 

[Loosearrow]

Short incident to share that happened last year in New Mexico. I was going to a funeral from Kansas to New Mex and my 27 large son was going to go with me. At the time I didn't have a conceal and carry and I talked myself out of carrying a handgun to travel. On the way back in Moriarity New Mex 4 in the morning needed gas. Pulled in to a large lit station,closed, large white generic car parked at one pump with California plates with engine off, thought the 3 of them were sleeping. One female, two males. We parked away from them ran a credit card began pumping. Guy steps out and says, hey that pump works? The girl get out, I was in passenger set starts to come over, I have a question for you. Have you seen this magazine and has made it to the drivers side of my car then plasters it on the window. Mean time guy has exited car, trunk open, walking around back with hand in manilla envelope to sons side. I said lets go. Off we went, called police, no service till further down the road. Police finally got thru said we were lucky. I now have my conceal and carry. I wouldn't have done things differently but will now never talk myself out of carrying. My mind saved me. I could have said back off or don't approach the car. It only takes one time to be in this situation to change your mind. Your safety is your business. A gun in the hand would have been better that a LEO on the phone or worse no service. This was very well planned. I usually am able to read people quickly. Could have been dead. Two people in the car was not any safer. Be safe, be aware.

 

[attej]

Attej: Do you notice when you opine on this topic, that you assume every hypothetical human is at their worst and weakest?

I think that's a bit unfair, since in almost every one of my posts I have tried to emphasize, that I am not talking about all gun owners.

"Im not saying that all gun owners, or people in this forum, act that way. Just saying, that these things happen."

 

[attej]

Captain Obvious says: A gun is no substitute for training and being mentally prepared. I've never heard a supporter of gun ownership saying anything else.

Yeah, it's obvious, isnt it? So there should be no accidents, and no overkill panic reactions (like described in this thread, btw), right?

 

[ROCK6]

Just to add another story I heard about the use of a firearm for self-defense. Well, the MAJ that I was evaluating during an exercise while up at Fort Lewis told me about the time he, his mother, sister and grandmother drove out to some acreage in Ohio that they owned (after his grandfather passed away, he had a few plot of land). It was in a rural area, and where they hiked in from the car towards a small copse of woods near a creek, all of a sudden, he said there were about 10 wild dogs that came out of the woods towards them. He was a little in shock at how they spread out with the Alpha male in the lead of the "formation". His initial thought was to run back to the car, but he new his grandmother wouldn't make it. He yelled at them and waved his arms to no avail and they were down-right bold and growling. Fortunately he was carrying his Steyr M40 (.40 S&W) and just made the decision to diffuse the whole situation by pumping almost a full mag into the Alpha-male which additionally spooked the rest of the pack to run off. Needless to say he also scared the poop out of his sister, mother and grandmother, but they were thankful of his actions.

Do you always need a firearm? No, but if you have the legal opportunity to carry, it gives you a decent amount of insurance whether you ever needed it or not.

Now, my CCW is always my last resort for self defense and if anything, I try to avoid escalation and if it's unavoidable, I usually have the dog, a stout hiking stick and (not added to my kit), pepper spray is an effective non-lethal alternative as well. It's just nice to have the lethal option if all else fails...but nothing is more important than just applying common sense and paying attention to your surroundings.

ROCK6

 

[fishshooter]

attej, was this guy able to talk his way out of this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_AZTqXimig&NR=1
He's Swedish also. I can't translate it, do you think the gun escalated or diffused the situation? To answer your question, at least in this state, accidental or wrongful shootings by CCW holders are basically non existent, there are hundreds of thousands or permit holders in Florida. There is no way to tell how many carry and on what basis. The accident rate among licensed hunters is higher, but compared to the licensed drivers involved in fatal accidents, it is tiny. On a side note, I thought maybe you were approaching the conversation from a EU minded standpoint. But I looked around and found Finland is ranked third in the world in terms of gun ownership. I also found it interesting that while your violent crime rate is increasing annually, it is still much lower than the U.S., though the U.S.'s has been declining for around twenty years. Finland's overall crime rate is one of the highest in the world, much more than the U.S.. I had preconceived ideas about your country that were untrue, and I learned something. So in that regard, thanks.

 

[attej]

attej, was this guy able to talk his way out of this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_AZTqXimig&NR=1
He's Swedish also.

Quoting myself here, please note the emphasized:
But the unfortunate reality is, that too often a gun can make a situation worse.


I.e. of course a gun can be usefull. If you feel that you might really need one, I strongly suggest you carry one.

But I looked around and found Finland is ranked third in the world in terms of gun ownership. I also found it interesting that while your violent crime rate is increasing annually, it is still much lower than the U.S., though the U.S.'s has been declining for around twenty years. Finland's overall crime rate is one of the highest in the world, much more than the U.S.. I had preconceived ideas about your country that were untrue, and I learned something. So in that regard, thanks.

Yeah, and the new "nice" phenomenom is school shootings, we've had two separate occasion within one year, twenty kids dead . Of course the populist main stream politicians blaimed in on the guns... a stupid, but not an unexpected reaction. I do not a agree; a gun is not the problem if our society produces kids that want to kill each other.

Also, the overall crime rate is high here. That does not mean that the streets are unsafe though, there are only a few suburbs here that have a bad reputation, and that I would not like to wander alone in the night. Our violent crimes are almost always done;

a) drunk
b) to someone we know

I think it tells a lot, that the most dangerous weapon here is a kitchen knife...

A sure way to get your ass kicked here, is to go and cut line in a local fast food joint at 4 am in a saturday night. But, a robbery in the woods... that's something I have never heard of. Luckily, guns on the street are extremely uncommon here, even though a lot of folk has one at home. We have a lot of hunters (myself included), (300 000 registered hunters / 5 million inhabitants) and practically all hunters own a gun or more. Also, almost everyone knows how to shoot (compulsory military service).

 

[ROCK6]

Quoting myself here, please note the emphasized:
But the unfortunate reality is, that too often a gun can make a situation worse.

This is always going to be debatable, but I completely disagree. Here in the US, if a law-abiding, CHL/CCW permit-holder has to use his/her pistol, then the situation has already worsened. The misconception that those with CHL's are trigger-happy, dirty-Harry's is completely false. The last thing I would ever want to do in a bad situation is draw my firearm...but if I draw it, then my family or my own life is already at risk from an evil-doer and I if the initial presentation doesn't dissuade the bad guy, than I will shoot to make the perp "stop". Killing another human is no small matter…I’ve seen enough death in Iraq to know that; but God help the one who ever threatens bodily harm to me or my family.

We have a lot of hunters (myself included), (300 000 registered hunters / 5 million inhabitants) and practically all hunters own a gun or more. Also, almost everyone knows how to shoot (compulsory military service).

I'm a big believer than an armed population is generally a more polite population. Bad guys will never care about laws and I don't think laws should keep the good guys/gals from protecting themselves or their families.

There will always be the "what-if" scenarios, but I trust my own judgment and give the courtesy of other legal CHL/CCW holders to do the same. Too many shootings could have been stopped by an armed citizen...is there risk? Absolutely, but I would much rather accept that risk than seeing several unarmed people (and children) gunned down with nobody willing to fight back. There is a ton of data supporting concealed carry for citizens; let the bad guys take the risk on who they choose to attack.

ROCK6