Do you consider Bark River knives handmade?

22-rimfire

22-rimfire

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Nov 20, 2005
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I periodically look at their lineup and the pricing. The pricing is similar to many "handmade" knives. They in general build a very nice knife assuming they are as advertised relative to the steel and so forth. So, my judgement is that they are like Randall's, semi-handmade knives. The distinction is difficult sometimes between handmade and factory made.

What do you think putting aside any owner consideration or negative history you might associate with their knives? This is not a trash BR thread.
 
No.

It is impossible to ask a question like this without getting into the elephant in the room. If they were truly hand made we wouldn't see the problems with off-label steel and edge issues. Also, the pure volume they put out would mean they need a whole lot of hands making a whole lot of knives.

If the blanks aren't cut by hand then they can't be hand made.
 
Hand made means all aspects made by hand including cutring the blade blank and grinding of the profile etc. If a cnc machine is making the blank it is not hand made. Nothing wrong with it if it is done right.
 
Nope.

I took a blacksmithing class where I started with a slab of steel, furnace hammer, files and other abrasives along with an instructor. he taught me to hand make a knife and I consider that hand made. Forgoing the hammer and forge and opting for a blank can also be hand made but the construction from raw material to knife shape has to be by hand.

BTW, the knife was crap but I was a 14yo and it was fun nonetheless.
 
I don't think the CNC issue holds any water in terms of being handmade or not. Some custom makers use CNC machinery if they have access to it to cut the basic blade profile from slab steel.

If I started making knives and had a friend machine shop with a CNC machine to cut the basis blade profile, it would still be handmade as far as I'm concerned.

If I had friends helping me or working with me (ie "many hands"), they would still be handmade but not necessarily by me totally.
 
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I guess they are production knives that are hand-finished, similar to TOPS maybe? I remember that they contour their handles by hand, but i'm not sure about grinding or other aspects of the process. I saw a video about their production method but that was some time ago so not very clear on details.
 
22-rimfire said:
I don't think the CNC issue holds any water in terms of being handmade or not. Some custom makers use CNC machinery if they have access to it to cut the basic blade profile from slab steel.

If I started making knives and had a friend machine shop with a CNC machine to cut the basis blade profile, it would still be handmade as far as I'm concerned.

If I had friends helping me or working with me (ie "many hands"), they would still be handmade but not necessarily by me totally.
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CNC isn't a bad thing at all. My favorite blades are famously made using the system. However, cnc by definition makes something not hand made.
 
craytab said:
CNC isn't a bad thing at all. My favorite blades are famously made using the system. However, cnc by definition makes something not hand made.
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Agreed. By definition, it isn't handmade. However, depending on the effort put into finishing, quality of the item, and quality/character of the maker (e.g. aftermarket support, community contributions, etc.)... handmade doesn't matter so much to me. Tons of great handmade, mid-tech, and production knives out there... also tons of crap out there as well.
 
Clearly no. They do have some steps with humans, but it's not a custom knife.
 
The old term for them would have been "Bench Made". It used to describe a knife that was handmade by a small group of knifemakers in a factory type setting. Most people don't use it now because it usually gets confused with the Benchmade knife company.
 
craytab said:
CNC isn't a bad thing at all. My favorite blades are famously made using the system. However, cnc by definition makes something not hand made.
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Then many big name "hand made" makers are not hand made by this definition.
 
SVTFreak said:
Then many big name "hand made" makers are not hand made by this definition.
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Indeed. It's just a marketing term unless it is true.

What I don't get is consumers trying to change the definition of hand made.
 
Mo2 said:
Clearly no. They do have some steps with humans, but it's not a custom knife.
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I generally think of "handmade" and "custom" as being different.

I ride a late 70s vintage Trek steel road bike. It is a "handmade" bike that was a production model and not custom. In like manner, I would consider any knife made mostly by hand to be handmade, even if custom or "bespoke" <- a word that causes a gag reflex for me
 
pinnah said:
I generally think of "handmade" and "custom" as being different.

I ride a late 70s vintage Trek steel road bike. It is a "handmade" bike that was a production model and not custom. In like manner, I would consider any knife made mostly by hand to be handmade, even if custom or "bespoke" <- a word that causes a gag reflex for me
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This isn't about bikes or customs or custom hand made bikes. Have any thoughts on what constitutes a hand made knife?
 
Many of the Bark River knifes that I own and have seen are really good looking knives. I think they make a solid, functional knife and as in all knife making processes, mistakes can and probably will happen. I guess I support the "handsome" description for their knives.

I have to apologize to the group. Wasn't wearing my glasses and i pickup handsome instead of handmade. For the record, I don't think BRK knives are handmade.
 
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22-rimfire said:
I don't think the CNC issue holds any water in terms of being handmade or not. Some custom makers use CNC machinery if they have access to it to cut the basic blade profile from slab steel.

If I started making knives and had a friend machine shop with a CNC machine to cut the basis blade profile, it would still be handmade as far as I'm concerned.

If I had friends helping me or working with me (ie "many hands"), they would still be handmade but not necessarily by me totally.
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Good post. These are usually good threads to shy away from as the folks here define their opinion as basis of fact and will defend it as such. There have been makers over the years that have participated here, some started here, and some have become very successful. Their websites still show their knives as "custom" and "handmade one at a time" and other such references, although on this forum they freely admit that they will make use of any advantage they can get to turn out product once they go full time, with knifemaking their only source of income. That includes blade blanking, help with assembly, etc.

To me, it isn't custom knife making if you buy blanks and attach scales to them. As a craftsman in another discipline for about 40 years, I don't split hairs with my fellow craftsman to define the nature of their work. So to me, for example (realizing this goes against the group) if someone designs a blade to his specs, prescribes the steel he wants, works out cutting parameters with a water jet company, contracts said water jet company, pays to have the work performed to his specifications, and does his own quality control on acceptable blanks, I don't think that short changes the customer in getting a custom knife as the maker was in charge of every aspect of the blade blank except running the machine. Seems more than a few makers feel that way.

I understand that doesn't hit the defined sweet spot of others, though.

Robert
 
Mo2 said:
Clearly no. They do have some steps with humans, but it's not a custom knife.
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Never said BR knives are "custom", just semi-handmade. This custom versus handmade has been a point of definition for a long time. I used to refer to all handmade knives as "custom" knives, but have refined that definition to handmade and custom where say a knife maker makes say 50 similar knives, each handmade, but none really were custom to a buyer's specs. So, taking that reasoning a step further, a true custom made knife that is re-sold becomes a handmade knife.

People often state that Randall knives are semi-handmade or semi-custom since they are often made to the buyers specs on one of their regular models that they produce. The term "benchmade" may be a better description of BR knives in general as T tltt mentions above.

If a maker does 100 similar knives, and I think most makers actually have their signature designs that are built/made for sale. Then these are handmade and if for some reason they cut the blanks with CNC or water jet machinery and refined to a finished knife... I still think they are handmade. The machinery is just a more automated step to get to the basic blade shape done and then they work from there.

Are Bob Dozier knives handmade or something else since I believe he has other people working in his shops other than Dan?
 
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