Do you consider Bark River knives handmade?

[craytab]

I like the Blackjack classics. In particular I am fond of the 125 and 1-7. Have an old trail guide model that was done in A2 that is pretty nice too. I just like this style of knife in general. I wonder how many people would be upset if a knife was supposed to be in A2 and was actually done in 3V by mistake. I suspect the mistake occurred because the steel was improperly marked by who ever cuts the blade blanks.

I think you'll find that the instances of lesser steels being mislabeled as better steels compared to the opposite, quite few.

Either way, if a craftsman hand making knives doesn't notice the difference, I don't want the knife. Ignorance or negligence....

 

[22-rimfire]

I tend to agree. But this issue does not sway me away from BR if I like the design. As mentioned, I still consider them semi-handmade in a factory setting.

 

[marcinek]

Randalls are better made,period!BarkRiver make pretty good knife,but theyre mostly hype too,with bunch of fanboys supporting each other and the owner of BR,etc.Have seen a lot of BR fanboys with huge collections,but these people do not use their knives,just praise how well they perform.Theyre too thick for my taste,and also too expensive for what you get.Pple are afraid to use these knives hard .

I'm not seeing how this has to do with whether or not they are "handmade."

I know they have people doing some hand work, like doing the edge grind (which explains the variability in grinds), but I really don't see that warranting the term "handmade."

If it does, then just about every knife is "handmade."

 

[Natlek]

I'm not seeing how this has to do with whether or not they are "handmade."

I know they have people doing some hand work, like doing the edge grind (which explains the variability in grinds), but I really don't see that warranting the term "handmade."

If it does, then just about every knife is "handmade."

Most knife maker hanging around this forum have better equipment than Bark River has .Can we say that they make hand made knives ?

 

[Natlek]

If you didn't dig the ores out of the earth and make your own steel did you even make the knife?

Well , until about 20 years ago, my car service was at home where I lived.I can bet that if I start digging in the yard I will find some rusted bearing which will look like ore
I just look at Bark River site , their knives have convex grind

 

[marcinek]

Most knife maker hanging around this forum have better equipment than Bark River has .Can we say that they make hand made knives ?

I don't think "better equipment" has anything to do with what defines "handmade," but the question of whether using machinery or automated machinery makes something "handmade" or "not handmade" is certainly relevant.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter to me...the term has become meaningless. Kind of like "Made in <country>."

Is a knife "Made in Belgium" if it is assembled in Belguim using screws made in China?

We need better terms! Somebody make some up!

 

[Natlek]

whether using machinery or automated machinery makes something "handmade" or "not handmade" is certainly relevant
We need better terms! Somebody make some up!

Serious knife maker use mill for gard slot , I use drill press and file to finish it .So my knives are more hand made
About better terms....................we can count how much electricity each knife maker consumes to make one knife , then compare that and make some scale and calculate % of hand work for every knife maker ...........more electricity less hand work

 

[pinnah]

Isn't there a disconnect between custom and mass produced?

(Snip...)
Handmade used to mean that hands held the piece or the tool working on the piece.

I suspect a good number of folks aren't old enough to remember handmade production products, hence the incorrect conflation between handmade and custom.

I also suspect a good many haven't actually built things, thus don't deeply understand the role of tools and supply chains.

 

[pinnah]

So there is a blanket label of "Hand Made" often applied to many goods, not just knives, that tends to mean one of two things.

A) Hand Made - all work and crafting done by hand
B) Hand Assembled & Finished - parts are often machine made but final assembly and finishing are done by hand

Hand Made is great for a respect to craftsmen and artistry but generally you aren't really getting anything from Hand Made that you can't get from Hand Assembled & Finished. I do agree that advertising hand assembled and finished as hand made is dubious so I don't support it I just support the quality of work it often produces.

None of these remarks are specific to any one maker just in case anyone who hates BR wants to assume I am trying to defend them.

I've dealt with handmade and custom bikes since the 70s and have never heard these definitions applied. No handmade bike builder I've ever heard of pours their own steel nor draws their own tubes.

 

[jpm2]

Isn't there a disconnect between custom and mass produced?

Custom, made to order.
Mass produced, many, many made, pick the color you like from what's available.

Handmade used to mean that hands held the piece or the tool working on the piece.

Starting with parts that couldn't be used in their original form without cutting/shaping/grinding/etc, this sums it up for me.

 

[PirateSeulb]

I've dealt with handmade and custom bikes since the 70s and have never heard these definitions applied. No handmade bike builder I've ever heard of pours their own steel nor draws their own tubes.

It is an over simplification and certainly upon scrutiny doesn't apply to all things equally. I never said anyone used those definitions but that those are the 2 methods of build that most often are used when an item is labeled hand made. You can build a car by hand but doesn't mean you built the engine from raw material. Just like the bike example you provided it would fit into the "Hand Assembled & Finished" group and there are certainly industries where you couldn't do more than that reasonably. I would say for the "Hand Made" group it doesn't mean they smelt their own ore and make their steel and that they go fell a tree and make their own lumber they buy raw materials such as sheets/rods of metal and boards/planks of lumber then hand shape, fit, assemble, and finish those raw materials. In Bike & Cars you do buy some pre-made parts such as gears, chains, engines, etc but that doesn't mean the quality isn't there and certainly some products it is clear that it was more toward A or more toward B.

 

[Danke42]

I think they're definitely handmade. That's the only logical explanation for the number of mistakes they make. Too many humans involved.

 

[Cobalt]

I think they're definitely handmade. That's the only logical explanation for the number of mistakes they make. Too many humans involved.

you mean hand finished. Unless you consider running a cnc machine hand made

 

[Danke42]

you mean hand finished. Unless you consider running a cnc machine hand made

A tool is operated by hand. Whether it's a hammer and anvil for forging, a grinder or belt for shaping or a Computer Numerical Control machine for removing metal it's all operated by hands.

If we really want to draw a line in the sand then only handmade knife would be knapped from flint.

 

[Cobalt]

A tool is operated by hand. Whether it's a hammer and anvil for forging, a grinder or belt for shaping or a Computer Numerical Control machine for removing metal it's all operated by hands.

If we really want to draw a line in the sand then only handmade knife would be knapped from flint.

Your opinion. Not mine. Making a blade with cnc means it is mostly machine made, hence the difference between hand made and machine made. By your definition all knives are hand made.

 

[dberry]

Don't consider them handmade but quality is off the charts. I had a Hudson bay model years ago that was a freaking work of art. I really regret getting rid of that one.