Do you keep a give away BOB?

[Smash05]

In line with this thinking, I have given car kits to people as gifts in the past. These are actually Bug Out Bags, but I tell them it is for their car and they think its great. Good discussion again, thanks.

 

[dougo83]

Do you mean a waif like this Margaret Keane image? You might well say she is dragging a dolly, or cuddling a starving puppy. That would tug at heart strings even more.........

Lets keep an even playing field in these discussions. Picture yourself in Haiti this week. There is no food, no water, no medical help. Your family is days away from starvation. Someone knocks...................

Do you hand out a can of tuna and a bottle of water then? I think probably not.

Don't be so hard on others for their responses, when we have not established a common scenario for discussion. Just saying.:thumbdn:

Yes, actually. If I have it to spare, yes.

 

[koyote]

Yes, actually. If I have it to spare, yes.

absolutely.


Stone soup!

 

[Mannlicher]

Yes, actually. If I have it to spare, yes.

aye, and there's the rub, so to speak.

It is easy to speak of giving away when you have excess.............when things are tight, and to do so diminishes the chances of you and yours to survive, it becomes a real question. Eh?

 

[gadgetgeek]

any disaster that shuts down calgary is going to do it because the roads are impassable due to a winter storm. it means that piles of people will be "bugged in" at work and such, EMS will be overloaded with car wreaks. Even the huge flood we had a couple years ago only lasted about a day, sure lots of messed up cars, but the city got back to normal within 48h. no power in this city means no heat. very few have real fireplaces, most heat is gas. This means that there will be more than a few housefires as people get desperate. the neighbor burns his house to the ground trying to keep his kids warm, and takes another two houses with it. now three families on the street are homeless due to bad luck, poor planning, whatever. I'd be doing my best to help, but in my opinion, there are no such thing as freeloaders in this situation, either your alive, or your dead, one way you are helpful, in the other, nothing to worry about.

In one way it means that I don't have to worry about people I know showing up because I have stuff, if they are dedicated enough to get here, they have something to offer. the rest of the neighborhood, thats another story.

as for the original question, if anyone told me that they would "just come to my house" if a disaster hit, i'd tell them that I likley wouldn't be home. or tell them that even if they wanted to, any disaster out here, it wouldn't help them at all. Because the other type of disaster would be a gas plant or drilling rig explosion, luckily I'm far enough away from that edge of the city all I'd have to worry about is H2S and if it came to that, it wouldn't matter a bit.

 

[koyote]

Back in the 80s, when the cold war was looking like heating up for the last time (we didn't know it was the last time then)- that's when I first got the survival mindset. Differentiated from the wilderness survival mindset, I'm talking about the classic survivalist school.

Having a lot of Mormons in my family, there was a certain acceptance, so I skipped through the "bitter superiority" phase pretty quickly. One thing that always struck me about the LDS "preppers" (thankyou spirko for that word) was that they were prepared to band together and take in anyone

(with the obvious limits that certain behaviours wouldn't be tolerated, etc etc. let's be reasonable and not get into a binary flame war)

Some of the more apocalyptic religious groups out around the southwest at the time were.... less welcoming. And you had a whole group of people who thought that the idea of prepping was somehow antisocial (well, given the behaviour of some survivalists.....)

I currently have a housemate who is a first generation american jew. BOTH her parents were in camps. Safta- her mother- tells stories of some pretty amazing social behaviours. I won't use the word charity, but generosity and community.

All these things influence me.

In a 2 week event? I could feed my whole cul de sac, and the next cul de sac on top of it, and still have the BOB and deep emergency foods left over. Without foraging or shooting the rest of the squirrels in my yard and the park over my fence.

In a longer event? Well, time to train. Time for lifeboat rules. Time to work it out.

The original topic has been strayed from a fair amount, into a discussion of what to do or not do. I come down firmly on the side of being a saving grace- of not having to tell my kids that we didn't try to help. Yeah, I want to keep my kids alive, but I need to do it honorably. For me, that means- within reason, within my boundaries- helping. every bit I can.

 

[mdauben]

Yes, actually. If I have it to spare, yes.

Did you really read and consider the scenario that Mannlicher just outlined? People keep saying "if I have it to spare" or "if I can" but that is not what we are talking about here. Mannlicher just posed a scenario where you have no likelhood of resupply in the near future and you only have one or two days worth of food left. In that situation would you actually take food out of your family's mouth to feed a stranger?

I think most of us in this thread are when we are talking about turning people away, we are not talking about a minor emergency. We are not refusing to spare a bottle of water if there is no water service for a few days. Not refusing to share some food if the roads are blocked by a snowstorm or downed trees for a couple days. We are talking major disasters or EOTWAWKI events, where we might be on our own resorces for weeks, months or even longer. Where if we run out of food and water and shelter we and our families may die. We are talking about true Lifeboat Rules, where there are only so many resorces available and if you try to save too many people, everyone dies.

 

[Mannlicher]

in 2005, when Katrina and then Wilma came back to back down in Miami, the entire County was without power for weeks. No traffic lights, no gas pumps, no stores open.
Being the ultimate Boy Scout, my family and I were well provided for. We had gas for the truck, gas for the generator, batteries, dry good, canned goods, MREs, Mountain House, stacks of propane canisters........... in short, enough to ensure our safety and comfort for many months.

My gated community neighbors, all good people, were no so blessed. Most lost freezers full of food, had no water, and were in many cases, stranded. Destitute. With out much of anything that they needed.

We pitched in, and all pulled together. I carried a generator round the 'hood, helping others save their food, and in two cases, provided refrigeration for diabetic supplies. I used my water filtering equipment to provide free, potable water for a number of families.

I cooked meals, from my supplies, and fed several elderly residents, who would have had nothing.

I provided batteries, propane lanterns, gas stoves, tools, gasoline and for one family with an infant, an a/c unit.

I am not above helping, when helping does not endanger my safety, or the survival of my family. I prep long and hard, and spend a fair amount of money to make sure those I am responsible for have a chance.

My point all along is that if you have plenty, and others do not, of COURSE you help.

If you have 'enough', and others have zero, and there is NO CHANCE that things will change for the better, then it is literally 'life boat rules' time.

Sorry if I cam across as heartless, but there are internet hypotheticals, and there is real life. They are different.

 

[koyote]

Why are you so against the giveaway bob then? Why is there such a problem with the idea of being prepared to help others?

BTW, I have guns. I have the ability to defend my family. I'm not going to just open up my house itself to complete strangers to go pick through and decide to kick us out because the giveaway bob isn't "enough". I appreciate the idea of needing to be prpared for that, but- for me- it's not a reason to not have preparations.

 

[Mannlicher]

As so often happens in forum give and take, you and I have both misinterpreted each other's thoughts.

For my part, I apologize for any ill will that may have occurred as a result of our discussing our views.

I can, and do help where I can. I respect others that do the same. Helping others in a time of need is what makes us human.

 

[koyote]

I know. it happens. And honestly this morning I've been having focus issues because of the kids. and shop stuff.

I think this thread got a bit sidetracked with the WSS standard warnings against/cautions about helping others.

Obviously, your performance is very community positive.

I'm pretty much for the idea of doing the giveaway bobs as a preparation- I've got my family and household taken care of, for the most part, so thinking about this seems like a positive step.

 

[Mistwalker]

For me the odds are against it being a complete stranger. The plan is to have some spare gear for myself and family if needs be but also to have some spare gear for someone else whom I know has something to bring to the table. This hollow I live in is mostly family, and I have enough sense to know the "island" mentality is never going to work...any successful effort will require making "allies" and team efforts.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Why are you so against the giveaway bob then? Why is there such a problem with the idea of being prepared to help others?

It's not an across the board thing, but face it, most people, even on boards like these, do not have enough prepped for their own families, so how can they be accused of being heartless when they don't make up spares for others when they really don't even have themselves squared away?

I don't subscribe to LDS (Mormon) theology, but they are a great example for how to live in this world. One of the things i remember our Mormon neighbors doing when I lived up north, is when their kids got married, instead of giving them stupid trinkets, like big TVs and such. Everyone pulled together and got the new couple squared away with about 6 months of food and preps. The general consensus was that each family really should have a year's worth of supplies on hand. They also kept supplies at their ward.

Now, here's the kicker: they took care of their own first. If there was enough left for outsiders, they'd help, but if there wasn't, you were on your own. I think that's a good model to work from.

 

[Mossyhorn]

A bug out bag for your bro is a great idea.

 

[LMT66]

Strangly, her opinion of my "parinoid preparations" didn't change after the hurricanes.

Sounds like her pride has something to do with that eh? She may quietly respect your preparedness and probably has secretly made her own PSK.

Good job on being prepared Codger_64 :thumbup:


My dad built a concrete fallout shelter in/under his back yard when I was just 2. It was stocked with water, canned goods and preserves and had blankets, radio etc.
After 911, at age 72, he sealed off the chimney on the roof, the windows in the room with the fireplace and stored things neatly in the corner behind a couch. stocked enough water for a month along with canned good and preserves and radio. Always prepared.

 

[dougo83]

aye, and there's the rub, so to speak.

It is easy to speak of giving away when you have excess.............when things are tight, and to do so diminishes the chances of you and yours to survive, it becomes a real question. Eh?

It's not a question to me. I know I can handle a few days without food and I know that no natural disaster is going to wipe out EVERY form of food source. Thus, I ALWAYS have "enough." I am not opposed to skipping a few meals so someone else can have it. Yes, I have been there before.

Did you really read and consider the scenario that Mannlicher just outlined? People keep saying "if I have it to spare" or "if I can" but that is not what we are talking about here. Mannlicher just posed a scenario where you have no likelhood of resupply in the near future and you only have one or two days worth of food left. In that situation would you actually take food out of your family's mouth to feed a stranger?

Yes, I did read it. I would say I probably should have said "enough" instead. "Enough" doesn't mean, or even imply, excess. It means "enough." Also, unlike most of those posting here, I have been through disaster scenarios. I have, in fact, given my food to someone else, not knowing when the next meal would be coming. As I stated previously in this post, a meal is ALWAYS available if you know where to look. I would rather go hungry for a few days while I look for mine than pass on helping someone else. Also, perhaps you should consider the concept of "rationing." What we "need" and what we think we need are largely different.

My point all along is that if you have plenty, and others do not, of COURSE you help.

If you have 'enough', and others have zero, and there is NO CHANCE that things will change for the better, then it is literally 'life boat rules' time.

Sorry if I cam across as heartless, but there are internet hypotheticals, and there is real life. They are different.

As it stands, we will all do we what we can sleep with at night. I know what I will do. You know what you will do. That is it.

 

[Mistwalker]

Well...we all have our own personal perspectives on the situation, and our own experiences that will determine the stance we all start off with. How bad the situation really is will determine the end result and the stance we end up with. Some of us who have never really seen the darker sides of life first hand may find themselves completely changed. Even the most humanitarian of people in times of plenty may find themselves feeding off of a neighbors freshly killed corpse in a Holocaust. From what I've read and seen...Katrina taught me that we are always roughly a dozen meals away from total breakdown in society. I have seen true hunger and remember the feeling all too well even after all these years. If it reaches a point where I have some food left and others around me have none and there is truly no chance of obtaining more....then in all honesty I hope I can still have the mentality I think I'll have and gather my friends and family close and all of us have one final feast with the attitude of "eat, drink, and be merry for soon we die". Because if there truly is no hope of gaining more food then being one of the last ones alive, spending a few more days here watching all others perish around me holds no interest for me at all.