Do you think Spyderco is wrong?

I don't mind the small stampings at the base of the blade, but a large, "tough" sounding wording as on the Police model is pretentious and embarassing. I love the Police model, but I'd rather not have the name emblazoned on it.

Mr. Glesser, while you're tweaking the Police model, how about a four-way clip for left-handers? I can dream, can't I?
 
I hate to see political correctness rear it's ugly head in any segment of society, but I can understand Spyderco's reasoning and I've got no problem with it. Also, by any definition, Sal Glesser is a real "stand-up" guy.
 
The law doesn't affect spydreco, but sales figures do. Spyderco has been happy with these name for years. Criticism of the name by a minority of people on this forum has also been pretty constant for reasons of both aethetics and law. However, removing the name of the Police doesn't really affect its legality too much, since the knife is just over 4", which also makes it illegal many places even it it wasn't a weapon. Also, most cops already know the name of the knife, so they don't need the label to know its purpose. For example, in my state it's illegal if its a weapon or over 4". No hope for the police in my pocket. Removing the name on the military may help, the knife may not be as well known, and its also under 4".
 
Names are signifiers and do make you think in a certain direction. When I first heard of the Spyderco Civilian I thought of an innocuous EDC like the UK penknife but it most certainly isn't that.
Unfortunately since there are people out there who will think in certain inappropriate directions and skulk around with a blacked out tanto and a headful of misguided ideas I think Sal has made the right decision. At least until we can get these hobbyist Spec Ops bozos to buy a part serrated, blacked out, chisel-ground tanto tactical folder called the Deluded Dickhead and everyone else can get back to pursuing their passions in peace.
 
samphire said:
Names are signifiers and do make you think in a certain direction. When I first heard of the Spyderco Civilian I thought of an innocuous EDC like the UK penknife but it most certainly isn't that.
Unfortunately since there are people out there who will think in certain inappropriate directions and skulk around with a blacked out tanto and a headful of misguided ideas I think Sal has made the right decision. At least until we can get these hobbyist Spec Ops bozos to buy a part serrated, blacked out, chisel-ground tanto tactical folder called the Deluded Dickhead and everyone else can get back to pursuing their passions in peace.

Fyi-the words on the blades were not big and bold but very discreet, IMHO. They sure didn't jump out at me when I first saw them. The size of the knife did though. Spyderco makes a couple of knives for the ninja's in the crowd (awesome looking high-end expensive hang onto your wallet type knives).

http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=37

http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=185

http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=126

http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=195

http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=26
 
So Military and Police will just be taken off the blades or dropped completly from all descriptions of the models? I'm glad to read Rescue models are exempt. I would think the name "Rescue" works the other way making the knife more friendly? For some reason I always liked seeing Police on the blade, but not Military. I am not a Cop, but was in the Military. Go figure...
 
I disagree with taking the names off. I mean come on, Whether the name of the knife was "Military" or "Poppy Fu-Fu Fuscious Dandalien" the guy still used it to commit a murder and the name should have had no bearing in the outcome of the case. Do we actually think he would have been any less guilty if the name was "Poppy FuFu Fuscious Dandalien".

The Military model is a great knife and taking the name off makes it no less effective. But I would never buy something knowing it has been Politically Corrected.
 
Remember the murder of the 2 Dartmouth College professors Half and Susanne Zantop by Robert Tulloch and James Parker?

There was a special about that on TV. They were killed with a SOG SEAL 2000 I believe. On the show, it was either the medical examiner or an officer that said the knife was designed only to kill. Obviously that's garbage, as the SEALS would have a lot of other uses for a knife other than killing.

Anyway, the point is that if some empty-headed politician or media talking head decides that Spyderco knives are "killing knives" after an incident like this, it could lead to laws against them and may reflect badly on the company. Taking those words off the blade may also be a good thing from a liability point of view as well.
 
Joe Talmadge said:
I don't think it's a good idea to put aggressive names on knives. A lot of people have been arguing that it looks unnecessarily bad, and that a prosecutor would eventually use the name against a defedent who had used the knife in righteous self defense (although I don't know if that's the case here). Very good idea to re-name the knives or take the names off completely.

You bet. I wish we would stop referring to knives as tactical as well. That means the same thing as weapon. Why can't we just learn to think of them as tools and then use them as we see fit.

One of the problems is that the terminology has more to do with the marketing of most knives than the design. Change the terminology and you reduce fear. Why couldn't you call a Strider folder a heavy duty hunter? It doesn't change the knife any. But it can change perceptions. Camoflage it. That's fine. Hunters do that. What we really don't need is more anti knife legislation.
 
Overall, removing some titles from being visually present on the blade, can really do no harm, but quite the opposite, in that I do indeed think that this could expand the Spyderco consumer market, by appealing to a much wider, and broader group of people.

Those of us whom are already dedicated Spyderco enthusiasts, will most probably still continue to loyally purchase Spyderco products, and probably one of the main reasons behind Spyderco's success, is due to the high quality which goes into each and every knife, and as such, by removing a title from the blade, in no way does it reduce the quality of the product, and so we as Spydie' Fans, would still continue to purchase Spyderco knives. Then there are those individuals whom will be attracted to Spyderco knives simply due to the removal of certain words from the blade, and thus Spyderco's market will grow, which will overall be beneficial for everyone involved, from Spyderco as a company, to the consumer's alike. So my honest view is that this is indeed a smart move, and more importantly that in no way does it detract from the quality of which I have come to recognise as being Spyderco quality, and whether you personally prefer the change or not, the products will still be of the same high standard as Spyderco has come to be known for, and apart from a minor aesthetic change, Spyderco knives will still be Spyderco knives, and as such will still sell as well as always, if not even more than previous, and simply because of the change, which IMHO, is an "improvement".

I must admit, that when first informed of such a change, I was not sure whether or not I would prefer to have the titles removed from the blade surface. However, there is no doubt, that it is a positive change in the long run, for everyone affiliated with Spyderco, and Spyderco knives, and whether you prefer the change on a personal level, is your view, yet it is certain that it is only a minor change, which will only affect the knife itself in a minimal aesthetic way, and actually the change from a word to the symbol of the "Spyderco Bug logo", is infact very cool (take a look at the Calypso Jr. with the gold logo print, it sure looks great IMO :D ), and whilst some may still have preferred a word, others will prefer the new look, and then newcomers will come to know only the new look, but in the end, all will still love, and continue to purchase Spyderco knives,...... and so in my opinion, everyone wins!!!!!...... "nuff said". :)
 
NIB said:
I disagree with taking the names off. I mean come on, Whether the name of the knife was "Military" or "Poppy Fu-Fu Fuscious Dandalien" the guy still used it to commit a murder and the name should have had no bearing in the outcome of the case. Do we actually think he would have been any less guilty if the name was "Poppy FuFu Fuscious Dandalien".
Fair enough, if someone goes out and commits murder, he deserves to be strung up. No arguments here.

But what if it's you or me, not some career criminial, forced to use a knife in self-defense against said career criminal?

Hate to break it to you, but the District Attorney isn't gonna cut you or me any slack because we're fine, upstanding citizens, they're gonna prosecute us the same as that career criminial. The DA will portray us to a jury of sheeple as bloodthirsty commando wannabe's, just looking for an excuse to gut someone and get away with it.

Sure, we'll say the knife was carried as a tool, not as a weapon; but if the blade has a big etch reading "COVERT DEANIMATOR Model 666" on it, the DA will use that to kick the air out of that defense.

So I'm in favor of Sal's decision. It give DAs one less thing to beat us fine upstanding citizens with if we ever have to defend ourselves with our favorite tools. Frankly, I hope other knifemakers follow suit.
 
In the UK as well as being illigal to carry "anything" for the purpose of self defence, there is a specific law against carrying or even selling a "Combat" knife. Now "Combat" is defined in very loose terms, specifically to give the police and courts some leeway, but there is the possibility that the Military and Para-Military could be interpreted as such by a narrow minded person.

On a personal note, I really do dislike any sort of writing on a blade, on the ricaso is fine, or at worst a very subtle, very small stamp on the base of the blade.
I think it is fair to say I'm a bit of a steel snob, but even if a knife was of a model I wanted with the most high tech steel on the market at half normal price, I would still likely give it a miss if it had bold writing all over the blade.
 
brownshoe said:
I travel and many places have laws that restrict carrying any kind of knife for use as a weapon, whether offensive or defensive. Many cities and states have these laws.

Countries as well. In Canada it is illegal to carry anything as a weapon, offensive or defensive. I think the people at Spyderco have made a wise decision.
 
I think it's a good idea. I put off buying a Police because of the name on the blade. Cuz I am not a PO and it just feels kinda weird if I m having one.
 
Ryan8, yes you're right about the knife. I saw that show,they even IIRC used S.O.G's catalog to show that its not a hunting, camping, work type knife.

In other words these 2 guys went out and bought knives meant for the task they used them for.

Right or wrong thats what one may face in court.

I have a CRKT with a 4 inch black tanto blade. Other makers have the same type knives with names like C.Q.C ( close quarters combat), Stryker etc. Mine is named FD (fire dept.) 16. hey i'm a fireman, its a work tool. ;)
 
FullerH said:
Massad Ayoob, a specialist in handgun self-defense and author of books and many columns on that subject, has repeatedly warned against carrying a model with an aggressive name for self-defense purposes. He says that, in his experience as an expert court witness, such names cause problems for the defense in cases.

Who here remembers to hubub over Winchester's "Black Talon" ammunition? Sen. Schumer et al had a field day over ammuntions so "lethal", it had to be taken off the market.
 
And the real kicker... The current Winchester SXT is the same design as the notorious "Black Talon" but the copper jacket is copper-colored rather than black, and the name is less "menacing" so now everybody is happy. :rolleyes:
 
sheltot said:
Who here remembers to hubub over Winchester's "Black Talon" ammunition? Sen. Schumer et al had a field day over ammuntions so "lethal", it had to be taken off the market.

Remember when Joycelin Elders called for "safer bullets?" What a blast those years were. We insult Bush's appointees, but DANG was that woman far removed from anyone's line of thought in so many ways.

The funny thing is hollow points and epoxy (or whatever it is) bullets containing small fragments actually ARE "safer bullets" and yet they are the very things gun-haters hate (out of ignorance and emotion).
 
Remember Cold Steel's Urban Skinner push dagger?
What image would that conjure up to a jury if you were tried for using one to defend yourself?
You'll notice CS doesn't sell an "Urban Skinner" any more.
Unfortunately, names do sometimes make a difference.
Denis
 
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