Do your morals have any impact on your knife purchases?

[Sonnydaze]

...and fan-boys don't bother me. When I look at the NIB folders that I have in a cardboard box, and I realize that 95% of them come from an American company that brings out a wide variety of great folders; has a CEO, major designers and product forums that I enjoy, a wide variety of great blade-steels and lock-types to pick from, then I label myself a fan-boy.
If I drive one brand of car for years because they don't break, or shoot a lot of handguns of a particular maker, that seem to be quite popular with law-enforcement also, due to their statistically high reliability, then I could also be self-labeled as a fan-boy.
Perhaps due to my scientific background, I'm drawn to good engineering design, high-quality products, and reliable products that work well. I am well-served and happy with that.

 

[shinyedges]

Awesome, that's great supporting a maker who does good. Good on you and southern grind bad monkey.

Im going to take this thread towards a positive reference... For me morals or values definately effect my choice. Here is a positive example. I recently bought a Southern Grind Bad Monkey... I was on the fence, because of the price and the steel choice, but really like the look of the drop point version of the knife. I have handled enough blades to be able to look at a design and know I will like its feel and that it will actually funtion the way I want. I wasnt going to buy it and then I read up on Zack Brown's Southern Ground Camp. It is an outdoors oriented camp for kids with special needs (mostly autism spectrum disorders). I found out that the sales of his knives fund the camp. That sealed the deal for me. The icing on the cake was when the product showed up and was WAY better than I expected. I am perfectly happy with the purchase, knowing that I got an awesome product, supported a good cause, and at the same time supported a small American business. Plus I like his music.

 

[shinyedges]

Glad you enjoy your choice of products. I think the term fanboy implies a person willfully ignoring problems either with the knife or company. Blindly supporting a product or company regardless of the truth.

Anyway this topic isn't about fanboys.

...and fan-boys don't bother me. When I look at the NIB folders that I have in a cardboard box, and I realize that 95% of them come from an American company that brings out a wide variety of great folders; has a CEO, major designers and product forums that I enjoy, a wide variety of great blade-steels and lock-types to pick from, then I label myself a fan-boy.
If I drive one brand of car for years because they don't break, or shoot a lot of handguns of a particular maker, that seem to be quite popular with law-enforcement also, due to their statistically high reliability, then I could also be self-labeled as a fan-boy.
Perhaps due to my scientific background, I'm drawn to good engineering design, high-quality products, and reliable products that work well. I am well-served and happy with that.

 

[22-rimfire]

Does it matter if the company you purchase your knife from has shady practices? Or is owned by an individual who has below average integrity? We all know that no one is perfect, were all human. But a continued display of a lack of morals isn't a mistake, does it bother you to support such a person with your money?


This isn't about any company or person, just curious how fellow forum members feel about it.

Morals seldom enter into the buying process for me. Ethics do at times. For example, if a major knife company make what appears to be a copy of another top company's knife, I am generally not interested. The example I use for this was the SOG Sogzilla line as compared to Spyderco. Some take issue with SOG on their locking mechanism. I am no expert on this and defer to legalities as I have no idea if the locks are copies or there have been royalities paid to use a design. I do not take everything I read on knife forums to necessarily be fact, rather they are opinions unless they are quoting specifications that can easily be looked up.

Blackjack has knives made that are near copies of Randall knives at a reduced price. I view the the designs to be universal like a "bowie knife" and open to immitate if a company or maker chooses to because for the most part they are just knives that have been around for years.

The thread on expensive tactical knives brings attention opinions on over priced knives that are similar to much lower priced knifes. I take stuff like this on a case by case basis.

 

[Gehazi]

yeah , I make many of my consumer choices based on how much of a relative a-hole the corporation is to my knowledge, same with anything. I feel gratified when I do business with someone who has a good attitude and has respect towards their customers, and beyond that to the community in which they live and the workers they employ.-- one of the main reasons I am a rabid fanatic of Himalayan imports.

 

[shinyedges]

I don't like to take everything on any forum as fact , but irrefutable information that can be followed to a source is different. No one should blindly believe everything they hear that's just silly. Research and diligence will help sort out info.

But let's try not to name companies in this thread so as to avoid bashing.

Morals seldom enter into the buying process for me. Ethics do at times. For example, if a major knife company make what appears to be a copy of another top company's knife, I am generally not interested. The example I use for this was the SOG Sogzilla line as compared to Spyderco. Some take issue with SOG on their locking mechanism. I am no expert on this and defer to legalities as I have no idea if the locks are copies or there have been royalities paid to use a design. I do not take everything I read on knife forums to necessarily be fact, rather they are opinions unless they are quoting specifications that can easily be looked up.

Blackjack has knives made that are near copies of Randall knives at a reduced price. I view the the designs to be universal like a "bowie knife" and open to immitate if a company or maker chooses to because for the most part they are just knives that have been around for years.

The thread on expensive tactical knives brings attention opinions on over priced knives that are similar to much lower priced knifes. I take stuff like this on a case by case basis.

 

[shinyedges]

I don't have any HI yet but hear good things, good post.

yeah , I make many of my consumer choices based on how much of a relative a-hole the corporation is to my knowledge, same with anything. I feel gratified when I do business with someone who has a good attitude and has respect towards their customers, and beyond that to the community in which they live and the workers they employ.-- one of the main reasons I am a rabid fanatic of Himalayan imports.

 

[Rey HRH]

There is a maker who fabricated a story to sell knives, he sold his customers knives based on a lie. People purchased his knives believing he had the experience in the area he claimed even though its BS and been proven BS and he doesn't have the experience he claims. He got rich selling knives based on lies... I won't get to into it as I am trying to keep this from becoming a bash thread. There are more details that make it even more immoral if you care to know like I said send me an email.

I don't know how to find your email. I left you a visitor message.

But on this particular example, does the knife I bought from him fit the bill for me? Does it look like how I want it to look, does it have the features I want, does it function the way I want it to function. If he's got a new knife that I also want on its own, I'll buy it.

If I originally hire someone to paint the outside of my house and part of his selling spiel is that he painted the ceiling of the Sistine chapel. If his work is satisfactory and I need another paint job, I'll still hire that guy even though I may learn afterwards he didn't actually do the Sistine chapel.

I don't do a background check of all the suppliers and vendors I do business with beyond the business aspects as it relates to transacting business with them. Their morality does not affect my morality. If they spend every money they earned on watching porn, that's not on me. If I get to know that is what they do, it's not the porn that makes me concerned, it's of interest only in that their business acumen failed to manage this issue.

 

[shinyedges]

Click on my name in this thread, you should see a option that says send email.

You have already answered the original post, you don't care if the the maker or company lies to you as long as you like the product. So for you, morals don't really factor into your purchase. That's cool its your money spend it how you see fit.

I don't know how to find your email. I left you a visitor message.

But on this particular example, does the knife I bought from him fit the bill for me? Does it look like how I want it to look, does it have the features I want, does it function the way I want it to function. If he's got a new knife that I also want on its own, I'll buy it.

If I originally hire someone to paint the outside of my house and part of his selling spiel is that he painted the ceiling of the Sistine chapel. If his work is satisfactory and I need another paint job, I'll still hire that guy even though I may learn afterwards he didn't actually do the Sistine chapel.

I don't do a background check of all the suppliers and vendors I do business with beyond the business aspects as it relates to transacting business with them. Their morality does not affect my morality. If they spend every money they earned on watching porn, that's not on me. If I get to know that is what they do, it's not the porn that makes me concerned, it's of interest only in that their business acumen failed to manage this issue.

 

[22-rimfire]

It takes some fairly intimate knowledge of a company and the ownership to make the a-hole judgement. You can develop that opinion-based knowledge, but it usually takes going to shows and meeting the company folks. There is one knife company in MI that many take the a-hole side, but they are great knives. Warranties..... I seldom ever contact a company concerning any kind of warranty issue and the ones I have, handled things appropriately/aptly.

I may be wrong, but I believe the email option is only available to paying members. But it has been a while and I seldom email or pm anyone.

 

[shinyedges]

It doesn't always take going to a knife show to know some one is an a- hole. Some makers take it upon themselves to post there lies and show there colors online and in forums such as this one.

It takes some fairly intimate knowledge of a company and the ownership to make the a-hole judgement. You can develop that opinion-based knowledge, but it usually takes going to shows and meeting the company folks. There is one knife company in MI that many take the a-hole side, but they are great knives. Warranties..... I seldom ever contact a company concerning any kind of warranty issue and the ones I have, handled things appropriately/aptly.

 

[PURPLEDC]

...and fan-boys don't bother me. When I look at the NIB folders that I have in a cardboard box, and I realize that 95% of them come from an American company that brings out a wide variety of great folders; has a CEO, major designers and product forums that I enjoy, a wide variety of great blade-steels and lock-types to pick from, then I label myself a fan-boy.
If I drive one brand of car for years because they don't break, or shoot a lot of handguns of a particular maker, that seem to be quite popular with law-enforcement also, due to their statistically high reliability, then I could also be self-labeled as a fan-boy.
Perhaps due to my scientific background, I'm drawn to good engineering design, high-quality products, and reliable products that work well. I am well-served and happy with that.

I dont call that being a fanboy. To me what you are describing is just being a fan. To me a fanboy or fanboi is anyone who gets defensive or combative whenever a comment or issue arises that could be considered as "less than praise" about a particular company. A fanboy wont allow anything to be said about their favorite company unless the persons nose is visibly brown after doing so. They will refute any and all evidence even sometimes admitting they wont look at the evidence and simply continue their worship of the company on faith alone.

As an example lets say "nothing but excuses" knives decides to come out with their latest and greatest folder and reports surface on the forums stating there is an issue and others confirm and it seems to not be an isolated incident. A fan of the company will say man that sucks I havent had that issue but it sucks you did. Send it in Im sure they will fix it. The fanboy however is combative right out of the gate. Even sometimes being rude and condescending because you dared to speak up about a possible issue with a product from their favorite brand. Many times claiming there is no need to bring up the issue in public and you should at the very least give their warranty department 17 & 1/2 tries to make it right before bringing it up again. And even if that fails you should wait for a thunderstorm on the morning of the next full moon and follow a rainbow (only if there is red in it) as the storm clears to a magical leprechaun who you must offer a secret handshake to get a phone number of a specific person who works in warranty department and if THAT person screws up more than 5 times then and only then can you say something on the forum but you better be nice when you do it. That is a fanboy.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

It's also worth noting that morality and legality are two completely different things. Many things are legal but immoral, many things are illegal but morally justified. Legal stipulations only determine what the government says you can or can't do without suffering certain stipulated consequences. It does not necessarily determine what the right thing to do is.

 

[GronK]

Morals? I think morals is the wrong term here. Lack of character, ethics and attitude seem more appropriate and will definitely make me shy away or even boycott outright, depending on the degree, no matter the quality and desirability of the product. These can be applied to anything from personal history of the company principals to abrasive response by frontmen to country of manufacture.

 

[davek14]

Are people thinking of companies that copy designs? As long as the copying isn't illegal, I don't find it immoral nor a bad business practice. Otherwise, there would be one family who would be very rich from having the monopoly on wheels. If all a company offers is a particular "look" that someone is able to reproduce at a lower price then it's not my duty to protect their earnings. I generally would not buy a "knock-off" because of other considerations such as reliability, quality, etc. but not because it's a "knock-off." Just because someone buys a copied design from a legitimate seller and you buy only the "real" thing doesn't make you more moral or better than them; you're just in a different market segment. By "knock off" I mean just the copied design, not a counterfeit product.

Some are thinking of the well known companies making knock offs in this thread. As to that, I'm not sure how I feel about companies which make knives similar in design to others.

However I have found myself buying knives from the most well known of those companies which are not similar to any knives I know of. I'm still supporting the company and that may be wrong, I dunno.

I shop at stores I probably should not support also. Hey, I'm po.

As to other "immoral" practices which I'm obviously not familiar with, I'm sure that the degree of such matters.

When I used to hear of the satanic antics of some rock bands my response was "Hey, I listen to their music. I don't care about their hobbies." Now had other people (or puppies) been hurt I might have cared.

 

[Allen R.]

I used to love a certain maker, then because of some posts on this forum I sold all knives off from said maker and refused to buy anymore. Then I realized they were damn good knives and I really liked them. Actually found a knife I had bought from the maker and forgot about it and I started carrying it. Long story short I bought 2 more knives from the maker. I really don't care anymore as long as the knives are good and have a good warranty I'm in.

 

[shinyedges]

Lol agreed on the fan boy definition.

I dont call that being a fanboy. To me what you are describing is just being a fan. To me a fanboy or fanboi is anyone who gets defensive or combative whenever a comment or issue arises that could be considered as "less than praise" about a particular company. A fanboy wont allow anything to be said about their favorite company unless the persons nose is visibly brown after doing so. They will refute any and all evidence even sometimes admitting they wont look at the evidence and simply continue their worship of the company on faith alone.

As an example lets say "nothing but excuses" knives decides to come out with their latest and greatest folder and reports surface on the forums stating there is an issue and others confirm and it seems to not be an isolated incident. A fan of the company will say man that sucks I havent had that issue but it sucks you did. Send it in Im sure they will fix it. The fanboy however is combative right out of the gate. Even sometimes being rude and condescending because you dared to speak up about a possible issue with a product from their favorite brand. Many times claiming there is no need to bring up the issue in public and you should at the very least give their warranty department 17 & 1/2 tries to make it right before bringing it up again. And even if that fails you should wait for a thunderstorm on the morning of the next full moon and follow a rainbow (only if there is red in it) as the storm clears to a magical leprechaun who you must offer a secret handshake to get a phone number of a specific person who works in warranty department and if THAT person screws up more than 5 times then and only then can you say something on the forum but you better be nice when you do it. That is a fanboy.

 

[shinyedges]

Good post , in today's world the dollar and desire are king. Morals and everything else take a back seat.

It's also worth noting that morality and legality are two completely different things. Many things are legal but immoral, many things are illegal but morally justified. Legal stipulations only determine what the government says you can or can't do without suffering certain stipulated consequences. It does not necessarily determine what the right thing to do is.

 

[Aias]

It's also worth noting that morality and legality are two completely different things. Many things are legal but immoral, many things are illegal but morally justified. Legal stipulations only determine what the government says you can or can't do without suffering certain stipulated consequences. It does not necessarily determine what the right thing to do is.

:thumbup:

 

[shinyedges]

So the dishonesty of the maker drove you away, but you like the knife so much you don't care about there dishonest ways. That's cool its your money and you can support who ever you like.

I used to love a certain maker, then because of some posts on this forum I sold all knives off from said maker and refused to buy anymore. Then I realized they were damn good knives and I really liked them. Actually found a knife I had bought from the maker and forgot about it and I started carrying it. Long story short I bought 2 more knives from the maker. I really don't care anymore as long as the knives are good and have a good warranty I'm in.