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Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
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- Thread starter fulloflead
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I see lots of great points here.
Let me share some things I know about.
Spark has been, and continues to be adamant against requiring membership fees to access the forums.
He also is against the community chest thing, and he won't directly ask us to send in a donation.
The Premium, Gold, Knifemaker, and Dealer subscriptions that are currently paid barely cover bandwidth fees, and don't cover maintenance of the server, labor, software, ect. Thats why 1SKS contributes roughly $2500 a month to keep this place going.
A Gold, Premium, Knifemaker, or Dealer membership is currently the only way Spark will allow financial contributions to the forums.
We need a new server. Period. We aren't going to get that new server without coming up with the cash to pay for it, and the only current acceptable way of generating that cash is by OBTAINING MORE GOLD, PREMIUM, KNIFEMAKER, OR DEALER MEMBERSHIPS!
There have been lots of good arguments & reasons listed why those individuals don't purchase a membership, but those reasons aren't going to buy the new server. The current number of memberships aren't cutting it, and 1SKS is limited to what it can contribute in this difficult economy.
Bottom line here, folks, is that you need to decide if you like coming here, contributing, gaining valuable information, making friendships with people who share a hobby with you, and the general camraderie. If youdo, than you need to contribute in some way financially. It is the ONLY way a new server can be purchased.
Without a new server, this place is going to get slower, & slower, and it might get to a point where the current server just quits. if that happens, we're all out of luck
Think about it. Do you want that to happen? I sure don't.
(Edited to correct spelling.)
Let me share some things I know about.
Spark has been, and continues to be adamant against requiring membership fees to access the forums.
He also is against the community chest thing, and he won't directly ask us to send in a donation.
The Premium, Gold, Knifemaker, and Dealer subscriptions that are currently paid barely cover bandwidth fees, and don't cover maintenance of the server, labor, software, ect. Thats why 1SKS contributes roughly $2500 a month to keep this place going.
A Gold, Premium, Knifemaker, or Dealer membership is currently the only way Spark will allow financial contributions to the forums.
We need a new server. Period. We aren't going to get that new server without coming up with the cash to pay for it, and the only current acceptable way of generating that cash is by OBTAINING MORE GOLD, PREMIUM, KNIFEMAKER, OR DEALER MEMBERSHIPS!
There have been lots of good arguments & reasons listed why those individuals don't purchase a membership, but those reasons aren't going to buy the new server. The current number of memberships aren't cutting it, and 1SKS is limited to what it can contribute in this difficult economy.
Bottom line here, folks, is that you need to decide if you like coming here, contributing, gaining valuable information, making friendships with people who share a hobby with you, and the general camraderie. If youdo, than you need to contribute in some way financially. It is the ONLY way a new server can be purchased.
Without a new server, this place is going to get slower, & slower, and it might get to a point where the current server just quits. if that happens, we're all out of luck
Think about it. Do you want that to happen? I sure don't.
(Edited to correct spelling.)
- Joined
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Couldn't have said it better, Mike. I think it is time for people to get off their collective asses and do what is necessary to get the new server. This should be a no brainer, but it seems like their is some kind of reluctance here. To tell you the truth, if we don't come through in BFs time of need, then I wouldn't blame Spark for saying why bother. It is not his duty to continue to foot most of the bill for this forum.
As for the comment by GronK,
As for the comment by GronK,
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This is not directed towards anyone in perticular but SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST CHEAP GREEDY BASTARDS!!!! <--With an "A"
These kind of people wouldn't go out of their way to help there own mothers, You not going to get them to help the Blade Forums, No matter how much they gain from this place
These kind of people wouldn't go out of their way to help there own mothers, You not going to get them to help the Blade Forums, No matter how much they gain from this place
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2000
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Thank you, CODE3. Very direct and informative post there.
Keith, you are correct. You COULDN'T have said it better. You tried and failed. As for the little flipping off GronK thing, That was just plain stupid. The man said that he would pass on a charitable donation. Ya know what, Keith? I think I'll pass on that too. And if you look around, I think you can tally a pretty good piece of membership here that would pass on a charitable donation too. In fact, I'd say the number of charitable monetary contributions in BFC's coffer is probably pretty slim. So I want you to turn around and say "Hey, anybody not willing to make a charitable donation, this is for you!" Then hold your fingers high. You flipping me off, Keith?
Hey, if Spark needs a new server and needs "X" amount of new paid memberships, then that is a great goal. Kick a number up in the corner that counts down the memberships needed to get another server. I'll get me one in order to drop that number down, and I'll bet a bunch of other people would too. I wanna see that.
What I don't want to see is anyone being badgered because of their reluctance to cut a donation check. I don't want to see anyone pressured into upgrading their membership. I don't want to see a mandatory fee for using this place. This has nothing to do with me not being able to afford it, or being a cheapass greedy bastard. It has to do with the fact that a forum that has those characteristics is a place I no longer want to participate in. And I don't think many others would either.
Keith, you are correct. You COULDN'T have said it better. You tried and failed. As for the little flipping off GronK thing, That was just plain stupid. The man said that he would pass on a charitable donation. Ya know what, Keith? I think I'll pass on that too. And if you look around, I think you can tally a pretty good piece of membership here that would pass on a charitable donation too. In fact, I'd say the number of charitable monetary contributions in BFC's coffer is probably pretty slim. So I want you to turn around and say "Hey, anybody not willing to make a charitable donation, this is for you!" Then hold your fingers high. You flipping me off, Keith?
Hey, if Spark needs a new server and needs "X" amount of new paid memberships, then that is a great goal. Kick a number up in the corner that counts down the memberships needed to get another server. I'll get me one in order to drop that number down, and I'll bet a bunch of other people would too. I wanna see that.
What I don't want to see is anyone being badgered because of their reluctance to cut a donation check. I don't want to see anyone pressured into upgrading their membership. I don't want to see a mandatory fee for using this place. This has nothing to do with me not being able to afford it, or being a cheapass greedy bastard. It has to do with the fact that a forum that has those characteristics is a place I no longer want to participate in. And I don't think many others would either.
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Maybe I have read what GronK posted incorrectly. What I get from his words is that since BF gets money from advertising (incorrect, by the way) and since it should be supplied by a retail entity that he will pass on any charitable donations. The thing that pissed me of about his comment was that this is not a charity (something you seem to refer to yourself Vel). BF supplies a service to everyone that takes part here and any monies sent to BF should not in my opinion be considered as "Charitable donations".
No I won't flip you the bird Vel, because you have not posted anything here that I consider asinine. Just the opposite, I find your arguments to be well thought out and to offer a sound case for not charging a mandatory fee. As a matter of fact, my flipping GronK the bird was a knee jerk reaction to what he posted and I apologise for that, but that does not change what I think of his comments.
No I won't flip you the bird Vel, because you have not posted anything here that I consider asinine. Just the opposite, I find your arguments to be well thought out and to offer a sound case for not charging a mandatory fee. As a matter of fact, my flipping GronK the bird was a knee jerk reaction to what he posted and I apologise for that, but that does not change what I think of his comments.
GronK
Gold Member
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Originally posted by Keith Montgomery
Couldn't have said it better, Mike. I think it is time for people to get off their collective asses and do what is necessary to get the new server. This should be a no brainer, but it seems like their is some kind of reluctance here. To tell you the truth, if we don't come through in BFs time of need, then I wouldn't blame Spark for saying why bother. It is not his duty to continue to foot most of the bill for this forum.
As for the comment by GronK,
Since ya got two of them, shove 'em up your arse and walk on yer elbows!!
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Then we are in full on agreement here, Keith. I don't see this as a charity at all. I see the upgrade of membership as a purchase of added features to this forum. Features that I've stated are well worth that purchase. CODE3 made it clear that donations are not how they would like to go about keeping this forum running smoothly, and I would have to agree with that as well.
So what we have here, (this is my way of seeing it, by the way, it may or may not be correct), is that more paid memberships will get us to the goal of upgrading the forum. Excellent, we have a goal now. What we need to do now is establish just how far away we are from that goal and attack it. If it means that I need to get a paid subscription, then I'm in. If it means that 1SKS needs to sell "X" quantity of some item, then I'm in. If there is something definitive that needs to be accomplished, then that something needs to be identified to all the participants here so that they can decide if they want to contribute toward that goal.
I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing match. I am trying to keep this from becoming some "Us VS Them" thing that just won't fly. TheBadGuy said that some people are just cheap greedy bastards. That's kind of harsh, but correct nonetheless. There are millions of people in this world that WOULDN'T help their own mother if it meant cracking open their own wallet. That's unfortunate, but that is the way it is, and no amount of browbeating will get that to change. But what is fortunate is that there are just as many people who would. And those people need a rallying point, a goal, to work together to achieve.
One last point that I would like to repeat. There are those that would like to contribute, but for some reason or another are unable to do so. Those people contribute regularly and productively to these forums, and I for one am very appreciative of their contribution here. This group should not be directly or indirectly made to feel the least bit uncomfortable, their character should not be called into question by anyone. That is unproductive.
That's just my take. I hope that whatever needs to be done can get done, and I hope nobody gets shorted or offended in any way in the process.
So what we have here, (this is my way of seeing it, by the way, it may or may not be correct), is that more paid memberships will get us to the goal of upgrading the forum. Excellent, we have a goal now. What we need to do now is establish just how far away we are from that goal and attack it. If it means that I need to get a paid subscription, then I'm in. If it means that 1SKS needs to sell "X" quantity of some item, then I'm in. If there is something definitive that needs to be accomplished, then that something needs to be identified to all the participants here so that they can decide if they want to contribute toward that goal.
I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing match. I am trying to keep this from becoming some "Us VS Them" thing that just won't fly. TheBadGuy said that some people are just cheap greedy bastards. That's kind of harsh, but correct nonetheless. There are millions of people in this world that WOULDN'T help their own mother if it meant cracking open their own wallet. That's unfortunate, but that is the way it is, and no amount of browbeating will get that to change. But what is fortunate is that there are just as many people who would. And those people need a rallying point, a goal, to work together to achieve.
One last point that I would like to repeat. There are those that would like to contribute, but for some reason or another are unable to do so. Those people contribute regularly and productively to these forums, and I for one am very appreciative of their contribution here. This group should not be directly or indirectly made to feel the least bit uncomfortable, their character should not be called into question by anyone. That is unproductive.
That's just my take. I hope that whatever needs to be done can get done, and I hope nobody gets shorted or offended in any way in the process.
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I agree that there are many members that contribute enough by just being here. They provide so much valuable information, or are the reason that many of the members come here in the first place (many of the makers and people like Cliff Stamp fit into this category).
People like me should have to pay more because of all the bandwidth we use, and to tell you the truth I would have no problem with this.
Look, I realize that what I am proposing will not be popular with everyone. It may well be that a mandatory fee would not be a workable solution to the financial problems that this forum faces now and will face in the future, but if the finances aren't coming from any other revenue sources then Spark will have to look at the viability of this idea. Personally I would hate to have an exodus of basic members because they have felt unappreciated. I do ask however that each member that has yet to upgrade their membership considers the possibility of doing so now. I think it is obvious that it is required.
People like me should have to pay more because of all the bandwidth we use, and to tell you the truth I would have no problem with this.
Look, I realize that what I am proposing will not be popular with everyone. It may well be that a mandatory fee would not be a workable solution to the financial problems that this forum faces now and will face in the future, but if the finances aren't coming from any other revenue sources then Spark will have to look at the viability of this idea. Personally I would hate to have an exodus of basic members because they have felt unappreciated. I do ask however that each member that has yet to upgrade their membership considers the possibility of doing so now. I think it is obvious that it is required.
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- 1,496
Some good points made here. I agree that step one is to define the problem(s) and then set goals. As I see it there are two different issues.
1) Simply put,,we need a new server which costs approx. $14,000. That equates to approx. 467 new Gold Memberships.
2) Seperate from the new server issue is the day to day expense of running the site including but not limited to Bandwidth, upkeep and maintenance, labor, software, etc. These things must continually be paid for.
Now frankly, I don't see us increasing gold memberships in the near term by 467,,,maybe I'm wrong but I don' think so. So it may become necessary for us temporarily charge an access fee. By the time we come up with another 467 gold memberships, our total membership will have grown to the point that $14000 won't pay for what we need. Then,,what about the second issue?
It appears to me, that though we may not want to require a fee to access the site, it may be the only way.
Phillip
1) Simply put,,we need a new server which costs approx. $14,000. That equates to approx. 467 new Gold Memberships.
2) Seperate from the new server issue is the day to day expense of running the site including but not limited to Bandwidth, upkeep and maintenance, labor, software, etc. These things must continually be paid for.
Now frankly, I don't see us increasing gold memberships in the near term by 467,,,maybe I'm wrong but I don' think so. So it may become necessary for us temporarily charge an access fee. By the time we come up with another 467 gold memberships, our total membership will have grown to the point that $14000 won't pay for what we need. Then,,what about the second issue?
It appears to me, that though we may not want to require a fee to access the site, it may be the only way.
Phillip
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- 2,283
The community chest I thought was a good idea but of course I suggested it so I would, I think it would at least make a way for those that want to give a little easier, a link at the top of the page is all that would be needed, doesn't have to be a in your face deal but apparently Spark doesn't want to something like that so no big deal move on to the next idea.
Way I see it this thread is at this point not coming up with any more ideas but is instead causing arguments and that won't help BF, might actually make some newbie think we are idiots and not come back and not ever buy a membership.
The next idea?????
Do the auctions, use donated knives or gear or really anything, use donations from dealers, companies, individuals, run the auction who ever is donating is sent the winners name and address and ships to them the money goes to BF.
People want to get something for their money, and forum reading is not something to some people (I stress SOME) so they will not ever pay for a upgraded membership period, and if you make this a pay to play site then it will eventually fold as much as we don't want it to or want to believe it, it will I have seen it many times.
So now we need to figure out what people would be willing to pay for in order to help BF... Brainstorm that:
T-shirts can be made cheaply enough and a profit can be made from them, but some people don't want a forum labeled t-shirt but they may want a knife/knives t-shirt or a gear t-shirt. Ball caps cost a bit more to have made up but can also be done nice and in a way people would want them. Mousepads are cool also cost a bit more to have made than t-shirts and hats but are cool. BF screensavers/wallpapers and/or desktop items could be done sold cheap and downloadable easy enough.
Whatever needs to something that can be made up at low cost as possible but a profit made off it? Thats the end of my poor brains ideas.
Way I see it this thread is at this point not coming up with any more ideas but is instead causing arguments and that won't help BF, might actually make some newbie think we are idiots and not come back and not ever buy a membership.
The next idea?????
Do the auctions, use donated knives or gear or really anything, use donations from dealers, companies, individuals, run the auction who ever is donating is sent the winners name and address and ships to them the money goes to BF.
People want to get something for their money, and forum reading is not something to some people (I stress SOME) so they will not ever pay for a upgraded membership period, and if you make this a pay to play site then it will eventually fold as much as we don't want it to or want to believe it, it will I have seen it many times.
So now we need to figure out what people would be willing to pay for in order to help BF... Brainstorm that:
T-shirts can be made cheaply enough and a profit can be made from them, but some people don't want a forum labeled t-shirt but they may want a knife/knives t-shirt or a gear t-shirt. Ball caps cost a bit more to have made up but can also be done nice and in a way people would want them. Mousepads are cool also cost a bit more to have made than t-shirts and hats but are cool. BF screensavers/wallpapers and/or desktop items could be done sold cheap and downloadable easy enough.
Whatever needs to something that can be made up at low cost as possible but a profit made off it? Thats the end of my poor brains ideas.
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Wanted to add, I know there are several artist on board here at BF, I myself am one, I would be glad to do knife/gear illustrations to be used on t-shirts/mousepads ect. And I'm sure some of the others would too. That would cut some cost down and might make it cooler to have a item with a fellow forumites artwork on it, I dont know Ive seen a few guys I wouldnt mind having a t-shirt with their work on it.
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I think Spark said on another thread we need to double our membership to cover the current need. As a suggestion only, if each current paying member were to recruit one non-paying member to sign up, we'd be covered. For those that don't feel comfortable recruiting, as an alternative ask the paying members to contribute the cost of a membership, or give one of your friends a paid membership as a Christmas gift.
There are a few people on this thread that are friends of mine that I'd be glad to ante up for. If you think I'm rolling in dough, you're wrong, I've only got three new knives this year (and one was a kit I built myself). If you think I'm on a ego trip with a title, you're wrong. There IMO should only be two basic titles, Member (at whatever level is confortable) and Guest. As additional titles; Moderator, Knifemaker, Dealer and Company Reps, would help sort out who is who.
What someone contributed in the past isn't going to mean a hill of beans if Spark is forced to pull the plug. You can make all of the excuses or rationalizations you want, the simple fact is BFC needs our help...now...and that means New Paid Members.
There are a few people on this thread that are friends of mine that I'd be glad to ante up for. If you think I'm rolling in dough, you're wrong, I've only got three new knives this year (and one was a kit I built myself). If you think I'm on a ego trip with a title, you're wrong. There IMO should only be two basic titles, Member (at whatever level is confortable) and Guest. As additional titles; Moderator, Knifemaker, Dealer and Company Reps, would help sort out who is who.
What someone contributed in the past isn't going to mean a hill of beans if Spark is forced to pull the plug. You can make all of the excuses or rationalizations you want, the simple fact is BFC needs our help...now...and that means New Paid Members.
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- 15,225
A couple things to keep in mind -
1. We've tried T-shirts, knife bags, hats & more. Simply put, the cost in buying the products versus the time it takes to turn them over doesn't make it worthwhile to pin hopes on these sorts of projects. We've still got a few shirts left from that project. We've still got hats left from that project. We had knife bags for over a year after that project. We still haven't sold all of the forum bali-songs.
2. Sales from 1SKS do not go directly to helping BFC. They go to 1SKS. BFC memberships go directly to BFC. That $30 goes straight to the upkeep of the site. It doesn't go towards the cost of something that has to be shipped, or restocked, or ordered in the first place. That $25 or $250 knife or flashlight or tactical vest might net 20-33% profit - and that goes to helping 1SKS stay open first, and helping BFC second.
3. I go to great pains to keep 1SKS and BFC seperate. Short of the store link at the top of the forums, I don't use the site to aggressively promote 1SKS. I actually go out of my way not to twist arms or guilt people into buying from 1SKS. I call it principles... most everyone else calls it crazy.
I'm working on other options, but folks, it's a rough path. The new software coming out in the next few months will offer new options for us. We're exploring others as well. In the meantime, do your part to help the forums directly, by making this a place where everyone wants to contribute.
Kevin
1. We've tried T-shirts, knife bags, hats & more. Simply put, the cost in buying the products versus the time it takes to turn them over doesn't make it worthwhile to pin hopes on these sorts of projects. We've still got a few shirts left from that project. We've still got hats left from that project. We had knife bags for over a year after that project. We still haven't sold all of the forum bali-songs.
2. Sales from 1SKS do not go directly to helping BFC. They go to 1SKS. BFC memberships go directly to BFC. That $30 goes straight to the upkeep of the site. It doesn't go towards the cost of something that has to be shipped, or restocked, or ordered in the first place. That $25 or $250 knife or flashlight or tactical vest might net 20-33% profit - and that goes to helping 1SKS stay open first, and helping BFC second.
3. I go to great pains to keep 1SKS and BFC seperate. Short of the store link at the top of the forums, I don't use the site to aggressively promote 1SKS. I actually go out of my way not to twist arms or guilt people into buying from 1SKS. I call it principles... most everyone else calls it crazy.
I'm working on other options, but folks, it's a rough path. The new software coming out in the next few months will offer new options for us. We're exploring others as well. In the meantime, do your part to help the forums directly, by making this a place where everyone wants to contribute.
Kevin
Spark,
I was curious how practical it would be to have a Blade show. Pick somewhere and invite makers and dealers to bring knives and sell. Just charge them a reasonable table fee and of course have an entrance fee. Any profits would go towards BFC. I think with the proper advertising and the chance to advertise it here on BFC it could really go off well. Just a thought.
I was curious how practical it would be to have a Blade show. Pick somewhere and invite makers and dealers to bring knives and sell. Just charge them a reasonable table fee and of course have an entrance fee. Any profits would go towards BFC. I think with the proper advertising and the chance to advertise it here on BFC it could really go off well. Just a thought.
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I for one have enjoyed the short but very educational time that I have spent on BF. I don't want to see BF have the life sucked out of it by folks who don't give back in order to keep it functioning. Our society has all too often seen people who benefit from the freedoms that we have but aren't willing to make sacrifices to keep it or worse berate those who do make sacrifices. Therefore, once the Christmas gift buying frenzy is over with I will be joining as a Gold Member.