Does carbon steel ever stop making food taste weird?

netguy1999 said:
So what I'm gathering from this thread is that if I want to use a knife for food, I would be better off with a Queen variant? Does GEC make any models with D2, 420, or CPM154/154CM? This thread has already impacted some of my purchases.
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They occasionally make some patterns in 440C.

scrteened porch said:
Speaking of patina vs glare, has anybody tried turning their shiny stainless into matte as-ground with fine emery cloth?
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I've never tried that but it certainly is an interesting idea. I too would enjoy seeing some examples.
 
scrteened porch said:
Speaking of patina vs glare, has anybody tried turning their shiny stainless into matte as-ground with fine emery cloth?
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Sandblasting would probably be the first choice. I've no sandblaster and instead have used 12V DC on super shiny stainless screws which resulted in a nice matte finish. No idea if that could be scaled up to a whole blade.
 
scrteened porch said:
Speaking of patina vs glare, has anybody tried turning their shiny stainless into matte as-ground with fine emery cloth?
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With 220/320-grit SiC wet/dry paper, it's easy. Wrap a piece around a block, or attach it to a hard surface, and grind away. Straight, slow & steady strokes in one linear direction work well. I applied such a finish to a Victorinox SAK-style knife I picked up back in the '80s. At the time, I had scribed some 'artwork' (cough, cough) of my own on the polished blade to 'make it my own'. In present day, when I dug it out to reacquaint myself with it, it was hideous. Some 220-grit on a granite reference plate quickly fixed that. :D I've also done the same with some Victorinox paring knives, in cleaning up sharpening-related scratches on them.


David
 
Thanks. I thought the theory was sound. I'll try it on something I don't much care about first. Or something of which I have extras.

I don't really know what's going on with me and stainless now. I have an old Camillus I saved up for as a kid, and was very disappointed when it turned out to be rustable; and if there's one place where stainless makes sense it's my pocket, but I seem to have caught the patina bug.
 
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This is one of my main issues (if not the main issue) with carbon steel as well.
Some of my pocket knives get used often for food; not when I'm home (I have kitchen knives - all stainless - for that purpose) but when I'm away from home (at work, hiking, and so on).
Christian is right, we're not all the same, and I assume I might be very sensitive in terms of taste :cool:
I really dislike the taste that carbon steel gives to fruit. Patina helps a bit, but in my experience it doesn't really solve the problem.
This is why I prefer stainless steel, or just having two knives (when I'm hiking): one for "mundane" tasks (which can be carbon), and another one for food (which is invariably stainless).

Fausto
:cool:
 
Will Power said:
Well... I don't heat my knives up to smoking hot and put oil in them and cook stuff.....:eek::D:D
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It's my understanding that you don't want to heat up cast iron on high heat because it can warp. Carbon steel woks definitely handle high heat, though.
 
Fanglekai said:
It's my understanding that you don't want to heat up cast iron on high heat because it can warp.
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Quite the opposite. Cast iron is perfect for high heat cooking. Heck, you can stick a cast iron Dutch oven right in the middle of a camp fire. :D

Anyways, about knives…

Personally, I've only ever noticed that flavor the first time I use a new knife to cut an apple. Never notice it after that.

I must say, I'm impressed this topic is at five pages. :D
 
btb01 said:
Personally, I've only ever noticed that flavor the first time I use a new knife to cut an apple. Never notice it after that.

I must say, I'm impressed this topic is at five pages. :D
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Yep, agree with this.

A couple of interesting things I've taken from this thread:

-Individual tastes must vary a lot for fresh exposed carbon steel surfaces in contact with food. Regarding seasoned knives I've only ever noticed anything like an effect on Spanish red onions.

-Tastes must not vary that much for seasoned, patina'd carbon steel knives, as they're still the standard for both everyday cooking and fine dining food prep in Japan - a very taste sensitive food culture - and I've never heard of anyone commenting on it. Neeman's comment was interesting on this, as I'd heard of the days rest for freshly sharpened kitchen knives, but not personally witnessed it. I also sold a Misono Swedish carbon chef knife to a friend who uses it it almost exclusively in a cafe with a great reputation for good food and he's never reported back on anyone complaining about the taste.

-I was intrigued by Will's comment about pets rejecting food tidbits prepped with carbon steel blades. Will have to check this with some informal experiments.

-I use my well patina'd GEC 15 and 71 for peeling and slicing fruit every day and have never noticed the slightest taste from them, nor has anyone else commented on the taste who has sampled any of the slices I have given them.
 
Maybe tastes vary or maybe steels vary. Most likely both :-D
I've yet to taste D2 which also patinizes but only very slowly.
 
Jens I've used a Queen C. Whittler with D2 as my fruit knife, it certainly goes grey (rather leaden colour no blues or rainbows like carbon) but it does not impart taste for me.

Back to the kitchen knives, yes they likely don't impart much flavour as they are 1. washed at high temp and thus demand careful maintenance 2. are not enclosed by brass liners or scale material and pivots that likely do give off taint 3. are used mainly on foods that are cooked.

Fruit and cheese knives of the c19th were often silver bladed rather than carbon due to the taste factor. This before the advent of cheap decent stainless. At least, for the posh classes who could afford these silver fruit knives.

Aha! That's it! It's a CLASS ISSUE, the patricians are offended by smells and tastes the plebeians live with them :barf::D:D

It is interesting though that thread has run on so long... Vive la difference!:thumbup:
 
Brass liners in proximity to the blade have nothing to do with it, I'm sure. Pertinent case in point: I first really noticed the issue with a Carbone Opinel; that's been the 'stinkiest' of my non-stainless folders so far, when used for slicing fruit. No brass liner, or any other brass, in that knife at all. All of the 'funk' coming from that blade was a byproduct of the acid-steel reaction.

As to fruit uses, I've also noticed some apples don't have much effect either, and maybe aren't always a good gauge for the odor/taste effect of patina. Some apples seem to be a lot less acidic than others. I remember using an apple (maybe a Fuji) to see what effect it'd have on my Opinel, and it barely even started any patina at all, much less producing any side-effects of taste/smell on the fruit or blade. Maybe not so coincidentally, that particular apple wasn't very flavorful at all, either. Acidity is what makes flavors pop in a lot of foods.


David
 
David Certainly strong evidence you offer there about your Opinel, but I find brass stinks anyway, my all steel Tidioutes do not reek like some of my CASE or Northfield knives that have brass.

Like the apples you mention, they will vary. Peoples' senses too. I have well above average hearing, acute sense of smell and taste and very weak eyesight- in fact, it's vanishing but that's another matter. So it's a compensation effect I suppose? About smell, some stuff makes me retch, one of my friends has a dog that stinks so much (it's not old or incontinent or unkempt) that I really can't stand being near it at all, nobody else seems to mind, or they're more polite:barf::barf::D
 
Will Power said:
David Certainly strong evidence you offer there about your Opinel, but I find brass stinks anyway, my all steel Tidioutes do not reek like some of my CASE or Northfield knives that have brass.

Like the apples you mention, they will vary. Peoples' senses too. I have well above average hearing, acute sense of smell and taste and very weak eyesight- in fact, it's vanishing but that's another matter. So it's a compensation effect I suppose? About smell, some stuff makes me retch, one of my friends has a dog that stinks so much (it's not old or incontinent or unkempt) that I really can't stand being near it at all, nobody else seems to mind, or they're more polite:barf::barf::D
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I agree, brass has it's own 'character'. I found myself sniffing the blades in a couple of my brass-lined Case knives, just to see if I could detect any of the brass odor (sniffing blades is what such a discussion has reduced me to :D ). I couldn't smell the brass in those particular knives, but I always smell it when handling bigger brass-bolstered knives, like Bucks, etc. Stays on the hands a long time too.

I have days when my sense of smell seems pretty heightened, and other days when it's not; sinus or allergy issues get in the way sometimes. My Dad & I take morning walks around the neighborhood every other day. Some mornings on the walks, the smells in the air run the gamut of Good, Bad and Ugly, from the pleasant smoke of a wood-burning stove or fireplace, to somebody fryin' up bacon & eggs, and even pancakes for breakfast, to the hot tar used in a local roofing job, the bleach or fabric softener in someone's laundry, or occasionally getting a whiff of a septic drain field.


David
 
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Great. Now the first thing I do when I get home and open the Queen Ruple, waiting for me in the mailbox, is smell it. :P
 
:D This thread makes me think of changing job.... Think I'll put in to be a Sniffer Dog:D:D
 
Lol.

Brass itself doesn't stink to mee but if it gets wet it smells the same like other reactive metals.
If you don't want to make it wet just touch it and then smell your hand. Smells irony like nosebleed.
 
I skimmed the 5 pages.

Wanted to throw out another variable. Our sense of taste is closely tied to our sense of smell. Have you noticed when you sharpen a carbon knife you can smell it? As we age our sense of smell significantly deteriorates. We add more salt/sweetener/spices to our food to compensate. Someone that's in there 20's - 30's will be more sensitive to carbon taste versus someone over 50.

So, to answer the original posts question. Yes, the taste goes away as you and your knife age. You could say we all Patina in a way :)

Always stop to smell the roses.
 
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