Does Sanrenmu Produce Any of Their Own Stuff?

Well...you already know where I stand on this issue. But I feel that if a company provides a product that is a design ripped from another company's product but is cheaper, then I'll go for the cheaper one. Competition, is it not? I'm not saying the Sanrenmu is close to Benchmade's quality, but it's the same design for roughly an eighth of the price. Perhaps if the competition is strong enough it will cause Benchmade to lower their price (I seriously doubt the competition is strong enough to cause this to happen though), which is also good for the consumer. The Rift is a 154CM blade for $150~, which doesn't really seem like a good price...

It's legally wrong, but is it morally? I'd say it's up to the individual.

Although it's possible that I could just be a penny-pinching jerk. :foot:
 
That is the wrong attitude to take. Sanrenmu produce dozens of their own designs, you certainly don't have to buy one that's borderline in moral or legal terms. Or, you know, you can buy one of the Spyderco budget line knives, which are also made by Sanrenmu (Byrd is made by another company according to Sal).
 
Strictly out of curiosity, does anyone know how long Sanrenmu has been in the business of
manufacturing knives?
 
nick21 said:
Well...you already know where I stand on this issue. But I feel that if a company provides a product that is a design ripped from another company's product but is cheaper, then I'll go for the cheaper one. Competition, is it not? I'm not saying the Sanrenmu is close to Benchmade's quality, but it's the same design for roughly an eighth of the price. Perhaps if the competition is strong enough it will cause Benchmade to lower their price (I seriously doubt the competition is strong enough to cause this to happen though), which is also good for the consumer. The Rift is a 154CM blade for $150~, which doesn't really seem like a good price...

It's legally wrong, but is it morally? I'd say it's up to the individual.

Although it's possible that I could just be a penny-pinching jerk. :foot:
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Making an homage knife is one thing but infringing on a patent is another. It is illegal and morally wrong. It hurts American companies that are doing things the right way. It hurts American jobs. If you are fine with those things then go get your $20 axis lock knock off rift.

Remember, that price you pay isn't just for the physical product. You are paying for better materials, tighter tolerances, QC, a warranty, customer service, life sharp, etc....oh, and piece of mind.
 
craytab said:
Remember, that price you pay isn't just for the physical product. You are paying for better materials, tighter tolerances, QC, a warranty, customer service, life sharp, etc....oh, and piece of mind.
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Benchmades are still overpriced.
 
mcfuggle said:
Benchmades are still overpriced.
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And your point is? So since they are overpriced it is okay to illegally produced their patented device? Your comment at best isn't relevant to this discussion and at worst legitimizes stealing patented designs.

I agree BMs are overpriced but the company and/or the knife isn't really relevant here. Any knife in the price range of a BM with a patented design that is illegally copied is wrong and hurts our hobby. Folks that think that it is okay to get the illegal knock off because the real deal is too expensive hurt our hobby.
 
How does one determine if a knife is "overpriced"? Over priced compared to what?
I think a knife can only be "overpriced" relative to a person's budget.
I happen to think William Henry Knives are overpriced. But not Benchmades.
 
mcfuggle said:
Benchmades are still overpriced.
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Pretty much what Craytab said.

A lot of BMs are too rich for me, and consequently I have only 3 BMs, knives I really like. But if I can't afford to pay for a BM, I don't say "screw you Benchmade, I'll buy the knock off of your patent, that'll teach you to sell the knives for what you think they're worth!"

Benchmade knives are sold at the prices they are because a large market is willing to pay for those prices. I mostly am not.

An example: I love the Benchmade Adamas. I like the steel type, the blade length, the blade shape, the handle size, the handle shape, the carry options, the blade to handle ratio, the looks of the knife, pretty much everything. I liked it so much I was willing to pay what I needed to pay to get one. Although, I bought it on the Exchange here at below market value, but I still purchased it from a fellow member at a price higher than I pay for most knives. That particular knife was worth it. If a lot of people decided BM knives are not worth the price, the prices would drop. There is no inherent value in any knife except what the demographic is willing to pay.
 
KenHash said:
How does one determine if a knife is "overpriced"? Over priced compared to what?
I think a knife can only be "overpriced" relative to a person's budget.
I happen to think William Henry Knives are overpriced. But not Benchmades.
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That's exactly how it works actually, as I kind of explain in my post above. In fact, that's how pretty much every product works.

Let's say X Brand Knives are worth a lot of money to collectors, for example. But they don't appeal to me. If you needed cash and had an X Brand knife to sell me and I was the only guy around, you'd have to sell it well below market value, because to me, it just isn't worth it. But then, I have become your market and now the price is much lower than it would have been if you had a larger market to which you could sell. Price is always determined by the market. Enough people are willing to pay prices for X knife that that is what it is sold at. No knife or any other product has any inherent set value, beyond what the market is willing to pay.
 
Although he said that knife came dull, it sharpened up well and has performed in a serviceable fashion. For less than $6, why not?
 
Regarding them infringing on patents such as the Axis lock: I'd be upset about it if they are selling and marketing it here. Far as I'm concerned, these models making it to the USA is solely on the purchaser who wants it here, they don't even have ONE USA based distributor.

It's not right but they are keeping it there for local sale where they have no such laws... There are better more winnable "battles" to spend our energy on. Just vote with your wallets, all we can do.
 
mmarkh said:
That looks like junk. Why waste your money even if it is a small amount?
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'Cause that's how I wanted to spend my money. Even if it's junk that should be alrighty. If you don't want to spend your money on it that's alrighty too.

De gustibus non est disputandum - In matters of taste there can be no disputes.

I actually like them, although they are 8cr13mov which is about a minimum steel.

Anyway, the question was if Sanrenmu made stuff which didn't copy other designs at all. I think that would qualify.

I asked if it was "OK" to buy from a company which did copy designs if the item you bought was not a copy. It surprised me that most said yes, even those vehemently against the "tributes".
 
Stays Sharp said:
Regarding them infringing on patents such as the Axis lock: I'd be upset about it if they are selling and marketing it here. Far as I'm concerned, these models making it to the USA is solely on the purchaser who wants it here, they don't even have ONE USA based distributor.

It's not right but they are keeping it there for local sale where they have no such laws... There are better more winnable "battles" to spend our energy on. Just vote with your wallets, all we can do.
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It is being sold to folks here from any number of websites and on the bay. If they had a real distributor here they would surely be taken to court for their crime. That is why they don't have a distributor here. These knives are not made for their local market. They are made to appeal to other markets including ours. They don't have laws against infringing on US patent law but they do have laws restricting the carry of the very knives they produce. Go look up knife laws in China. Remember those 27 people killed on the subway by a knife wielding psycho?

Yes, voting with your dollars is the best avenue. But we also must educate. Some folks don't know why this is so wrong, as displayed in this very thread. I can take a couple minutes out of my day to explain why this hurts our great hobby.
 
craytab said:
It is being sold to folks here from any number of websites and on the bay. If they had a real distributor here they would surely be taken to court for their crime. That is why they don't have a distributor here. These knives are not made for their local market. They are made to appeal to other markets including ours. They don't have laws against infringing on US patent law but they do have laws restricting the carry of the very knives they produce. Go look up knife laws in China. Remember those 27 people killed on the subway by a knife wielding psycho?

Yes, voting with your dollars is the best avenue. But we also must educate. Some folks don't know why this is so wrong, as displayed in this very thread. I can take a couple minutes out of my day to explain why this hurts our great hobby.
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Some people on here don't seem to care if it hurts our hobby. They seem to think a large amount of knives equals a good collection no matter if most of them are junk knives.:cool:To me a large amount of cheap knives is about the same as the bag of dog crap I collect out of my yard. Buying stolen designs is bad IMHO. I would rather have a few good knives then a bunch of crap knives.
 
Well if one finds a $12 knife attractive, regardless of whether it appears to be a copy or not, then they should
be able to go buy it. If there's no customer support or lasting quality it doesn't matter because at that price
it's a disposable knife. But let's be honest, apart from the enormous price savings there is nothing attractive about it. If one could afford to buy a knife of an established brand they would do so.
 
The original question here was whether Sanranmu made designs which weren't copies. They do. We have predictably gone down the archtypal "morality of intellectual property theft" path.

This is really a question without a clear answer. There are too many degrees of difference and differences of degree.

We can say that an outright counterfeit meant to deceive is wrong, and illegal.

We may have established that the simple support of a company which imitates designs is not.

There are many degrees of morality and legality in between. The axis lock is patent infringement yet the Sanrenmu 710 which is a clear imitation of a Sebenza is doing nothing actually illegal.

So that's why people eventually ask what the law actually is in these threads. It's such a muddled issue that they have to fall back on that, although it's not the definitive answer.

Myself, I like slipjoints best (just my preference) and so I don't have to really make that moral call. Sanrenmu isn't imitating slipjoints. I've bought a Ganzo 725-M which is pretty similar to a Buck 371, but with that being a classic Stockman pattern... naa, I'm not going there.

So I can sidestep those issues I guess because of what I buy.

I will tell you one thing though, I've been corresponding with a gentleman in England and he has enumerated the obstacles he has with added cost and other issues to buy from the USA. I will tell you that the knives will be bought.
 
davek14 said:
I will tell you one thing though, I've been corresponding with a gentleman in England and he has enumerated the obstacles he has with added cost and other issues to buy from the USA. I will tell you that the knives will be bought.
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I think that's pretty fantastic.

There was another user, I believe in the land of Oz, who had finally completed his ideal collection. The amount? 4 knives, if I remember correctly. These were all fairly good midtech knives (perhaps even some high end) but nothing that you or I could not easily purchase provided we had adequate funds. Yet it took him years--literally--to not only get the money together + extra he'd need for added expenses, but to deal with shipping, customs and a host of other difficulties which we here do not face (although whether we'd face it from foreign markets ourselves, I do not know). Despite years of waiting, these 4 knives were worth all that hassle and expense--likely a much larger expense than we would pay--in the end.

That's some dedication. I'm not advocating we all should be as dedicated. I know I am not. I won't buy a knockoff (knowingly) but I will likely forgo a hard to get knife in favor of an easier, cheaper one, even if not as good.
 
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