Does Sanrenmu Produce Any of Their Own Stuff?

As mentioned above. Not likely that all Chinese manufacturers are interconnected.

Here is a Ganzo that is a modern take on a classic Switch. Nothing copied with that design even though they normally rip of Benchmade which is a nasty habit that I don't approve of.

Ganzo%20707%201.jpg


Ganzo%20707.jpg


The model is the "707", a coil spring propelled automatic with a buttonlock

/ J
 
The point is, we can speculate all we want but no one really knows. Enlan, SRM, Ganzo and maybe others all use the same "Axis" lock counterfeit. Who knows who got what from whom. And more to the point, nobody's hands are clean in all this. Each of the companies mentioned in this thread have done some manufacturing that would be illegal here in the US. To what extent one cares about that is up to the individual. I happen to think the Enlan EL-01 is a fantastic knife. And to the point of the thread, an original design at that!
 
shecky said:
What you describe is a copy, not a counterfeit. Referring to it as an axis lock may constitute trademark violation... in the US. But they aren't in the US. Does that make it wrong or immoral? Probably about as wrong as a business relocating from, say, California to Texas because of lax business requirements in the latter state. Few people, especially in Texas, would take seriously the idea that such a business is immoral because their business practices that are legal in Texas are illegal in California. But plenty of the same well meaning folks would have no compunction pulling that card when it comes to Chinese products. Want to talk about the morality of IP law? That's a rabbit hole that is far from clear cut, with some seriously strong arguments that American IP law has crept out of control, not out of some high moral ground, but at the behest of well monied interests vested in keeping their legal monopolies stronger and longer than ever. Of course, to keep competitors from competing, and customers paying higher costs.

I thank Dog for the internet, modern transportation, for making the world small enough that these lessons of capitalism can be learned so easily and inexpensively.
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This crap again? Really? If they were in the US it would be illegal. It hurts the hobby. Nuff said. Political bull snot is irrelevant.
 
Chris Reeve developed the integral lock, the framelock, and released it for public use without charging. That's why pretty much every knife design under the sun has either a backlock or linerlock (patents expired) or a framelock (free to use). Has other manufacturers using the framelock hurt Chris Reeve's sales one iota? No. Because if someone wants a Chris Reeve knife then come what may they will buy a Chris Reeve knife.

Manufacturers using the axis lock (licensed or unlicensed) do not hurt Benchmade sales, people who want a Benchmade will buy a Benchmade, those who want a Sanrenmu will buy a Sanrenmu irrespective of what lock it has. Moreover nobody would mistake a Sanrenmu 763 for any model of Benchmade. Yes, Sanrenmu did copy the lock in a manner which would be illegal in the US (at least until the 14th of April, 2015) but Benchmade suffered not a whit from it. All Benchmade's patent meant was that a bunch of manufacturers had to devote a bit of time to creating locks that are sort of like an axis lock, but not quite.

Counterfeiting is annoying, but the main area they cause problems in is the second hand market, a market manufacturers do not profit from. The person who purchases a Hinderer from Rick for $500, then sells it for $1500 has not benefited Rick any more than the person who buys a Hinderer for $500 and keeps it in his pocket ready for work. Someone who bought a $100 copy may not have paid $1500 to the second hand seller, but so what? Second hand price gouging hurts the hobby just as much.

Zero Tolerance in their collaborations with Rick have learned there is a market for "almost Hinderers", and their "almost Hinderers" are priced at exactly the right level to compete with the Hinderer clones at various price levels, Cryo, Thermite, 0560. For every price level of counterfeit there is now a lawful option that you can buy. Likewise Sal realising that the Chinese were selling a low value copy of Spyderco knives, branched out into the Byrd range where you can get an "almost Spyderco" for Chinese copy money.

Would those knives have been produced without pressure from Chinese copiers? Perhaps, in the case of the 560 very likely, but in some ways the response from American manufacturers to Chinese copiers has expanded the range for knife collectors and users.
 
One problem is when someone buys a crappy fake and thinks it's real, curses the brand and tells anyone who will listen how crappy it is. Counterfeiters don't help at all. What about the poor russian who had his gnome design stolen and produced by China before he even made a proto.
 
gottalovethemknives said:
thank you Steve im just new to the sanrenmu knives. but my next purchase is the sanremmu 7053 looks really beautiful to me!
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You've got to admit that SRM produces some unique designs. The 7053 comes in two types, the 7053LUC-xxx liner locks and the 7053DUC-xxx détente locks, there are a couple of colour combinations all similar. I bought one a while back and although the blade was sharp the seat belt cutter on the back end of the knife needed a sharpen to get it to the point where it would cut paracord cleanly.
 
craytab said:
The point is, we can speculate all we want but no one really knows. Enlan, SRM, Ganzo and maybe others all use the same "Axis" lock counterfeit. Who knows who got what from whom. And more to the point, nobody's hands are clean in all this. Each of the companies mentioned in this thread have done some manufacturing that would be illegal here in the US. To what extent one cares about that is up to the individual. I happen to think the Enlan EL-01 is a fantastic knife. And to the point of the thread, an original design at that!
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I've had all three apart and they are definitely different, the SRM locks are smoother and less omega spring tension, Enlans are a bit larger than the SRM and require, for my fingers anyway, bending the omega spring to ease the tension. Ganzo is usually good to go like the SRM but my G712 needed the spring adjusting. None of these really needed doing for using the knives generally but I like a slack spring pressure, just my preference.
 
^I watched the show Longmire (til it was canceled :( ) and he used what I assumed was a Buck 110 quite often and fairly prominently in shots... turns out it was a Schrade of some sort... LB7 I think it was called? Another poster here pointed it out. But that thing looked exactly like a 110... much like this one, although it has noticeably different bolsters.
 
Figured I should ask here...this newer SRM model doesn't look like a straight copy of anything, but it does seem to be familiar. Taking cues from a Kershaw Cryo maybe? The lanyard hole completely changes the looks though. Opinions?

k9FCelP.jpg


As far as the original question regarding their own designs, they appear to make their own and also have collabs with Chinese designers that are unheard of in the west: Windrunner, Lianggang, and another one whose name escapes my mind. If you check the fasttech SRM catalog, probably the best reference right now, the variety of knives in looks and sizes is crazy. It's a breath of fresh air compared to knives in the 10-30$ range that are produced elsewhere. I would buy some of them, but sadly many of them don't have locking mechanisms, possibly due to the strict Chinese regulations.
 
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craytab said:
This crap again? Really? If they were in the US it would be illegal. It hurts the hobby. Nuff said. Political bull snot is irrelevant.
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I think you're making my point for me. If they were in the US it would be illegal. But they're not. Has the hobby been hurt? Show your work. Because as far as I can tell, the knife industry offers far more choices, in a far greater range of prices, from far more places around the globe, than probably ever before in history. Definitely more than when I was a kid. If the hobby has been hurt, then I welcome the pain.

But I do agree that political bullsnot is irrelevant. Which is my whole point. SRM makes good stuff, end of story. It's available inexpensively. Somehow, the knife industry struggles on. You're the one to fall back on the "B..B..But... It's illegal!!!" argument. Which is a political argument.
 
shecky said:
I think you're making my point for me. If they were in the US it would be illegal. But they're not. Has the hobby been hurt? Show your work. Because as far as I can tell, the knife industry offers far more choices, in a far greater range of prices, from far more places around the globe, than probably ever before in history. Definitely more than when I was a kid. If the hobby has been hurt, then I welcome the pain.
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Why don't you show your work? Go ask any of the big manufacturers here in the US if they think the illegal copyright and patent infringement hurts their business and our hobby. It does, and to think otherwise is naive.

shecky said:
But I do agree that political bullsnot is irrelevant. Which is my whole point. SRM makes good stuff, end of story. It's available inexpensively. Somehow, the knife industry struggles on. You're the one to fall back on the "B..B..But... It's illegal!!!" argument. Which is a political argument.
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No, it is a legality argument, thus the use of the word illegal. You are making it political, which is wrong.
 
Trollbane said:
As mentioned above. Not likely that all Chinese manufacturers are interconnected.

Here is a Ganzo that is a modern take on a classic Switch. Nothing copied with that design even though they normally rip of Benchmade which is a nasty habit that I don't approve of.

Ganzo%20707%201.jpg


Ganzo%20707.jpg


The model is the "707", a coil spring propelled automatic with a buttonlock

/ J
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This is a direct rip off of the protech "The Don"



picture is property of Bladehq

craytab said:
This crap again? Really? If they were in the US it would be illegal. It hurts the hobby. Nuff said. Political bull snot is irrelevant.
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People have run circles around this conversation and it never ends good. Regardless there is always 1 single question that no one seems to answer. That question being why is it only "china" that gets singled out in the IP argument. There is plenty of IP theft right here in the USA as well as dishonest business practices. Some of them they are just as famous for their shoddy business as they are their knives yet its tolerated. Why? I dont have a problem with people who dislike IP theft and other issues regarding poor business practices. I do however find it disappointing that companies outside of china seem to be exempt from the criticism. As far as I know shirogorov used the axis lock without permission. I may be wrong on that. But I have not seen them give credit for it.

You have Microtech ripping off ZT and while that caused some stirring it never really effected microtech in the least and discussion of that knife is still allowed even with it being a blatant rip off of what I view as a rip off anyways. Dont even get me started on Strider. I swear that man may not be a "black ops" guy but he sure is invincible. These are just some of the instances that many are aware of. And copying happens in every single product we own. People here just get in a wad because knives are something we all love. Cars, guitars, handbags, phones, computers, perfume etc every single product you can think of gos through the same thing. Does that make it right? no. But it does kinda make you think that if its really about the "cause" and peoples "moral" compass then they should be as discriminating in those areas as well or else its really not about them being against copycatting. You cant choose to just take up this cause with just knives. Its like someone joining PETA but saying they only believe that Cats or Dogs should be protected.
 
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gibmoniplz said:
Figured I should ask here...this newer SRM model doesn't look like a straight copy of anything, but it does seem to be familiar. Taking cues from a Kershaw Cryo maybe? The lanyard hole completely changes the looks though. Opinions?

k9FCelP.jpg


As far as the original question regarding their own designs, they appear to make their own and also have collabs with Chinese designers that are unheard of in the west: Windrunner, Lianggang, and another one whose name escapes my mind. If you check the fasttech SRM catalog, probably the best reference right now, the variety of knives in looks and sizes is crazy. It's a breath of fresh air compared to knives in the 10-30$ range that are produced elsewhere. I would buy some of them, but sadly many of them don't have locking mechanisms, possibly due to the strict Chinese regulations.
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I've got this one on order
srm7089luisdw1_zps8f65d196.jpg

srm7089luisdw1_2_zpsa670667e.jpg


Black with flames, a classic! :D Windrunner is designing some good looking knives. I have quite a few designed by him. Lianggang designs for both SanRenMu and Real Steel, some models are very close in looks.
 
Yeah, there's a greyish SRM knife that looks almost exactly like the Cryo, expect with gold thumbstuds. Blade looks the same, though.
 
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