Does This Bother Anyone Else?

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Boozoo Chavis

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I recently ran across a very professional looking site called Sunrise River Custom knives and this is how they described their knives.
"You are about to enter the wonderful world of hand-made knives, where the pride of ownership and the reliability of your custom knife will see you through a lifetime of hard service. These knives are built one at a time to be strong and functional. Each will last a lifetime if used with reasonable care. My blades are made using the "stock removal" method, most working models are hollow ground for ease of sharpening. Each blade is professionally heat treated and tempered.
Click to expand...

Now this sounded great until I started looking through their knives and realized virtually everything they offer is made with pre-finished blades from Texas Knifemaker's Supply or folder kits from knifekits.com. Now I have no problem with pre-made blades or kits as I've built several Darryl (DDR) Ralph folder kits as gifts, and have even sold a few to people who saw the folders I gave to friends and wanted one as well. However, it has never crossed my mind to portray these knives as anything other than what they are- A kit knife hand finished by me... This is just my opinion, but I find it highly unethical of anyone who sells a knife made from a kit or blade blank as their own handmade knife. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me who thinks this guy is ripping people off?

Below is an example of what Sunrise River is doing - The top photo is from knifekits.com and sells for $16.95. http://knifekits.com/store/s-pages/kk_store_1mainframe.htm?kk_products_folderkits_main.htm~smain
The bottom two photos with the Sunrise River logo is what they call their Model 903 Tanto Point, Framelock Folder priced priced at $150.00 bucks. (what a bargain, eh?? it takes all five minutes to put this kit together, and it even includes the highly prized dymondwood scales) :rolleyes:
http://knifekits.com/store/s-pages/kk_store_1mainframe.htm?kk_products_folderkits_main.htm~smain

kkfl007a_t.jpg

903-1.jpg
 
You're right, I don't know what in the hell I was thinking. :confused: I've been around long enough to know that. Sorry for the brain fart - mods, please move to the proper forum.
 
I think it's great if the moving van is a bit slow today, so more folks could see this. This is really a ripoff
 
I have no problem with a person selling a kit knife. I do agree however, that the description is a distortion if the truth which questions the ethics of the seller.
 
Technically the knives are made by the stock removal method and maybe even on at a time. Just not necessarily by the guy selling them I guess.

STR
 
It's debatable these are "custom" by definition, which implies one of a kind, but it's really a worn out marketing term. Chevy used it as a model name, just like "deluxe."

That he's charging so much - well, there's one born every minute. He could be regrinding Benchmades and putting his logo on with as much veracity. In fact, makers grind blades for each other all the time - we just don't hear about it. And in the past, some didn't even make anything of their own. It was all for other private labels - Camillus comes to mind. The marked brand didn't even own a shop to work in. There still are some in business having great stuff made for them.

I'm not saying this guy is ok, he's just not that far off base. It's always a surprise when some find out, is all.
 
$150 for a $15 knife kit sounds pretty far off base to me. I wonder if anyone has bought one of these knives for the price he is asking and was happy with it.

I guess if you are stupid enough to spend $150 on a knife that you can get a the flea market for $7, then you get what you deserve in some respects.
 
These are described as handmade? Hand assembled, yes, handmade, no. Very deceptive marketing, and definitely not custom by any definition.
 
Talk about buy low sell high. :rolleyes:

Hey. Why don't I buy a bunch of those knife kits...put them together...and then sell them for like 10 times the cost of the kits! I'll be rich!

No one will ever find out! I'll say they are "customs"

man am I smart! :thumbup:

:barf:
 
For those prices I, for one, DO have a problem with people selling knife kits as a business... even if they say they're knife kits (which evidently this guy doesn;t do).

Look, the knife kit suppliers do a basic job on a blade: cutting, shaping, tempering, drilling, and milling. Then they supply to the kit parts to us at a more than reasonable cost. (I) buy 20 kits for $20, put them together, and sell them for $100 each under some "cool" sounding name? That's dishonest and is a rip not only to the customer but the original kit manufacturer too.

Now, if a guy has a business that advertises something like: "You pick the kit, I'll put it together for you and make sure everything's smooth and kosher, and it'll cost you this much". That's ok. You're paying someone else to put something together for you.
 
I know people that used to make these kits and sell them for $150.00 or more, but they also did a lot of work to the knives. They replaced the handle material with premium ironwood, stag or even ivory or MOP, and they also reshaped and repolished the blade (something you have to do very carefully so as not to affect the heat treatment). Just assembling it and adding your mark does not add $135.00 value to a $15.00 kit.
 
IMO, This guy is definitely misrepresenting his knives. He clearly describes his products in a way that would make one think his knives were handmade custom knives. Etching your name on a $15 dollar kit folder doesn't make it one of a kind, and it certainly doesn't make it a custom knife.
 
We blasted this guy a few months ago over at the Knife Network forums for the same thing. I am a moderator for the Kit Knife forum, so this had particular importance to me. Pages of posts, and he joined the forum as it was happening, but never responded.

Bottom line: It is misrepresentation, which will discredit all true knifemakers who spend lots more time manufacturing blades from the ground up, and a disservice to the unknowing/uneducated buyer, as this will surely put a bad taste in their mouth about 'Handmade knives', once they learn more.

Sadly, he seems to be very astute and has a good website. He need not hide the fact that he is basing many (if not all) of his knives off of kit components. I suspect he would do just as well. And if not, then it truly WAS the slimy coverup that was worth his profit.

BTW, I don't care if he charges $100 or $1000 for his work. That's irrelevent. Let the wallet decide where he prices his kits. But be truthful about the true origin of the components, instead of this glowing testimonial to the artistry and ownership of hand-made knives. That's bullshit.

Coop
 
I have a huge problem with how the knives are described it is dishonest.
 
It looks to me like there has been nothing done to that knife other than to have the maker's mark added.

We need to have Jay come and let us know what he does that is worth $135.00. We (I include myself in that we) are giving it to him pretty good without having heard his side. Has anybody contacted Jay to let him know about this thread?
 
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