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Does This Bother Anyone Else?
- Thread starter Boozoo Chavis
- Start date
in his explanation in that other thread, jay said that because he works parttime as a knife maker, he does not have time to design his own knives etc, so he copies the patterns of the kit knives that he was working on before he started grinding his own.
i don't know if this has changed or something since then, or waht the situation is at all....
i don't know if this has changed or something since then, or waht the situation is at all....
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As long as he is informing people that they are kit knives that he is only assembling, you are correct. If he is leading people to believe that they are handmade customs, there is definitely a problem with that.
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Anytime you etch your name in a blade it signifies it is handmade. This is a standard in this industry that, through long discussions, we've all agreed on, and any knifemaker with credibility will attest.
His mark distinctly says "Sunrise River Custom Knives". Etched right onto the blade of a bunch of kit folders. Bah!
Do I have a problem with a $30 kit assembled and sold for $130? Not in the least. Take your name off the blade, and try to sell it for more! But ONLY if you disclose how it actually came to be.
Coop
His mark distinctly says "Sunrise River Custom Knives". Etched right onto the blade of a bunch of kit folders. Bah!
Do I have a problem with a $30 kit assembled and sold for $130? Not in the least. Take your name off the blade, and try to sell it for more! But ONLY if you disclose how it actually came to be.
Coop
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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It's always interesting to see how many people post in a thread without reading it.
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I think it is pretty scummy- Basically tricking people into thinking they are getting a custom knife. How is that any different from ebay scammers selling happy willing customers"rare civil war bowie knives"? The fact that unknowing dupes fall for the lies doesn't make the blatant misrepresentation of the item for sale any less wrong. The scammers on ebay often put a lot of work into faking their knives, does that make it ok? Nope.
"IF" I were going to buy a custom handmade knife, I would buy from a reputable custom knifemaker. If the person is an unknown, I would do some investigating and looking for other people who have their knives and get their opinions. Heck, you can probably get all the info you need right here on these forums.
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Well, assuming that he is being truthful when he says that he just hand-makes copies of the kit knives he used to use, I can't help wondering why he makes them so perfectly identical. They look exactly like the completed $15 kit knife. Wouldn't a person be tempted to make even the tiniest change to personalize it somewhat? I know that I would hate to pay $150 for a knife that was hand-made to look exactly and in every way the same as a cheap kit knife. This is like a custom car maker building an exact duplicate of a Plymouth Reliant K.
This is a PERFECT description of what happened to me when I bought my first "custom" and then discovered that it was a kit knife. The guy actually out-and-out LIED to me about that fact, because I asked him if it was a kit knife. From that moment till now, I mostly refuse to buy customs unless I'm SURE that that's what they really are. It took me a long time to forget getting taken. I still have that piece of crap in my collection because there's nothing I can do with it. Darn thing won't cut butter.
As I learned more and more about the knife world, the feelings I got from this only got worse. AND, the scumbag who sold me the frigging knife was a GUILD MEMBER at the time (I don't know if he still is)!
The difference between the people on Ebay and inexperienced buyers is- to me- that at some level you KNOW those "Civil War" bowie knives aren't real. When you have someone who's presenting thier wares as custom, and you're new to the world of handmade knives, you are bound to presume that it is YOU who is at fault when things don't seem right. The kick in the nuts is that I had a chance to get a VERY nice ACTUAL custom fixed blade for the price I paid this nut-muncher and passed it up because I was getting a "custom" folder.
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All the Sunrise River folders look like kit knives.
Like others, my issue is with the narrative used at the web site. For example. . . .
Not only kit knives, but the introductory level kit knives- 5 for $75 I think. . .
I wonder how Darrel Ralph feels about his kit designs being passed off as customs by this clown?
(the DDR kit is a more advanced level kit, so he charges something like $250 for it. :jerkit: )
Not just folders, I think his fixed blades are made from kits as well:
Doesn't take much sleuthing to figure it out. . . I could probably poke around and find the kits that most, if not all his knives are made from, but I have better things to do.
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If you check out that knife on his website you will see that it even has the same clip that comes with the kit knife. He must be going for authenticity.
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Rat, you're absolutely right, it's not just the folders that are kits. I can go to Texas Knifemaker's and match most (if not all) of the fixed blades on his site to pre-finished blades.
Again folks, it's not the fact that he's selling folder kits or pre-finished fixed blades, it's the fact that he's trying to pass those folder kits and pre-finished blades off as "the finest quality handmade Knives." (quote taken directly from Sunrise River site)
"The finest quality handmade Knives" may be subjectively true depending how you define "finest quality" and "handmade". Fact is, you can't spend $15 and get that knife. Instead, for $15, you get a bunch of parts. This may be true of a whole lot of $150 knives, $15 worth of parts, assembled with the right logo stamped on the blade and enough care, easily worth 10 times that price. As with anything, knives are worth what customers are willing to pay.
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If he told people that these knives were kits then, and only then, would he be doing something acceptable. These knives are NOT handmade by any acceptable definition, and calling them "The finest quality handmade knives" is deceptive and false advertising.
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Jay Maines has been checking out this thread, and it appears he has nothing to post.
I'm looking at those pictures and it strikes me.... THE KIT KNIVES LOOK BETTER THAN THE "CUSTOM" KNIVES !!!!! The closer I look I realize that if that guy would grind off that silly garish logo of his (that he spent so much time putting on there), I might be willing to pay $150 or so, The knife kit companys ought to be selling their kits to him for that price, then we he gets through with doing his stuff to them, he can pawn 'em off for $15 or $20.
:thumbdn: :thumbdn: :thumbdn: :thumbdn:
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
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I don't know the guy and hope he pops up here to tells us how me makes these "handmade" knives but for now I simply must believe this is the American version of a "Knockoff". I would be a moron to believe otherwise, and the guy's silence so far gives merit to the "knock off" conclusion. I know that the guy is reading this, maybe he is looking for a "canned response"???
He needs to set up at Blade and I can think of 50 makers he could neighbor with who have fulll time jobs and very little time to make handmade knives but everyone they do make is truly handmade............
Very deceptive.................
He needs to set up at Blade and I can think of 50 makers he could neighbor with who have fulll time jobs and very little time to make handmade knives but everyone they do make is truly handmade............
Very deceptive.................
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That is indeed the bottom line Coop! You've hit the nail square as it were. I hate crap like that as it really damages the entire Custom knifemaking industry. This is not the only case of peope putting kits together and selling them deceptivly. Total bullshit is exactly what that is.
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There is also a knifemaker member right here on the forums who is selling kit knives. . . should I post about it here? Or you can email me for the name and evidence.
In this case, he seems to make knives himself as well, but some are obviously kit knives.
In this case, he seems to make knives himself as well, but some are obviously kit knives.