Dogs loose in the woods-your opinion?

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angle iron said:
Not pointing at anyone in particular but FWIW, should any of the ronin ever be unfortunate enough to have to use force against a human in any situation the braggadocio posted here may well deliver a bite MUCH worse than any dog could.
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What!!!! Are you pointing, growling and bearing your teeth at me!!!!! I shall smite thee with my vorpal internet sword for your perceived threats!!!!! By gosh I won't be threatened or intimidated.....Arrrrrr.....
Tongue firmly in cheek. :D
 
I SERIOUSLY doubt that anyone here has a problem or feels threatened with the "happy-go-lucky" dog faithfully wandering down the trail with his responsible master...leashed or not. Most often the disposition of the dog is written all over him.

I was raised in a family that bred and trained hunting dogs (we advertised in Field and Stream and Outdoor Life magazines for many years) in addition to running a VERY large dairy farm. We specialized in Retrievers, Beagles, and Springer Spaniels. In the end, those dogs were only as good as the training we put into them and they were all top performers once we were finished with the intense basic training. Quality in, quality out.

I (we) put the same loving, intense, consistent training in our dogs today as I did then many years ago. And, we get the same results with ANY breed of dog that we train. Some breeds have some unique training needs but the end result is still a trustworthy dog with a well-balanced nature. Quality in, quality out...regardless of breed.

Pitbulls: The news media is responsible for this brainless frenzy labeling ANY dog that looks different than a chihuahua a 'Pitbull.' Truth is; most people today wouldn't know a Pitbull if it ran over them in broad daylight wearing a red tuxedo! Not all bull breeds are Pitbulls! Sorry, that Bullmastiff is not a Pitbull! :)

As I mentioned earlier; we own a highly trained American Staffordshire Terrier (always graduated first in her classes). People on the street recoil from her because they think she looks like a Pitbull. Little do they know, that same dog is a "Certified Therapy Dog!" This 'Pitbull' travels to hospitals and nursing homes throughout this county bringing GREAT happiness and joy to those stuck in beds and wheelchairs. Like most bull breeds, she LOVES people. No need to shiver in your shoes when this dog is around. Most of the bull breeds we have in this country have been bred to *like* and *enjoy* people, not eat them. Though they have the physical capabilities to eat you, they would rather spend quality time with you. No, bull breeds (including Pitbulls) are not bred to harm people. Forget what you heard and read by the typical ignorant news media...cause it simply ain't so. Quality in, quality out. :)

Finishing up college, working as an LEO (police!) I was bitten several times by dogs who their owners said; "they never bit anyone before." In each case, I was bitten by a SMALL dog. My friends who worked for the Post Office and UPS always had the same story...'small dogs.' I (we) didn't pay attention to the larger dogs (including the smallish Pitbulls) when entering a residence but we did keep an eye out for the small dogs (there were exceptions, of course).

Having trained a heap of dogs (and a victim); this is my approach to the aggressive trail dog.

1. Stick to your business and don't do anything threatening toward the dog.
2. Avoid eye contact with the dog...especially male dogs.
3. If the dog charges you; scream "NO!" It often works!
4. If the dog continues his charge and all looks helpless; clobber him. And, if that doesn't work, terminate the threat if you can. This is all moral and legal.
5. If a hostile owner comes attached to that dog, ignore him and contact the police (I have arrested several irresponsible and hostile dog owners).
6. Never judge a dog by its breed but rather judge him by his actions. Because of this breed prejudice (they just don't know any better), we have to be more sensitive to how the public views our German Shepherd and Am Staff breeds.
 
evbouret said:
ok, im back again...wanted to make my point a little clearer than mud:

If my dog ever attacked you, a family member or your dog. And you had to use force to stop the attack. Then I couldn't be angry over what happens after that.
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problem is that NO ONE will idly stand by and shrug their shoulders when their dogs attacks someone and the victim kills the dog. NO ONE. Its human nature.

(hell i dealt with it first hand)
 
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Dannyboy Leather said:
I SERIOUSLY doubt that anyone here has a problem or feels threatened with the "happy-go-lucky" dog faithfully wandering down the trail with his responsible master...leashed or not. Most often the disposition of the dog is written all over him.

I was raised in a family that bred and trained hunting dogs (we advertised in Field and Stream and Outdoor Life magazines for many years) in addition to running a VERY large dairy farm. We specialized in Retrievers, Beagles, and Springer Spaniels. In the end, those dogs were only as good as the training we put into them and they were all top performers once we were finished with the intense basic training. Quality in, quality out.

I (we) put the same loving, intense, consistent training in our dogs today as I did then many years ago. And, we get the same results with ANY breed of dog that we train. Some breeds have some unique training needs but the end result is still a trustworthy dog with a well-balanced nature. Quality in, quality out...regardless of breed.

Pitbulls: The news media is responsible for this brainless frenzy labeling ANY dog that looks different than a chihuahua a 'Pitbull.' Truth is; most people today wouldn't know a Pitbull if it ran over them in broad daylight wearing a red tuxedo! Not all bull breeds are Pitbulls! Sorry, that Bullmastiff is not a Pitbull! :)

As I mentioned earlier; we own a highly trained American Staffordshire Terrier (always graduated first in her classes). People on the street recoil from her because they think she looks like a Pitbull. Little do they know, that same dog is a "Certified Therapy Dog!" This 'Pitbull' travels to hospitals and nursing homes throughout this county bringing GREAT happiness and joy to those stuck in beds and wheelchairs. Like most bull breeds, she LOVES people. No need to shiver in your shoes when this dog is around. Most of the bull breeds we have in this country have been bred to *like* and *enjoy* people, not eat them. Though they have the physical capabilities to eat you, they would rather spend quality time with you. No, bull breeds (including Pitbulls) are not bred to harm people. Forget what you heard and read by the typical ignorant news media...cause it simply ain't so. Quality in, quality out. :)

Finishing up college, working as an LEO (police!) I was bitten several times by dogs who their owners said; "they never bit anyone before." In each case, I was bitten by a SMALL dog. My friends who worked for the Post Office and UPS always had the same story...'small dogs.' I (we) didn't pay attention to the larger dogs (including the smallish Pitbulls) when entering a residence but we did keep an eye out for the small dogs (there were exceptions, of course).

Having trained a heap of dogs (and a victim); this is my approach to the aggressive trail dog.

1. Stick to your business and don't do anything threatening toward the dog.
2. Avoid eye contact with the dog...especially male dogs.
3. If the dog charges you; scream "NO!" It often works!
4. If the dog continues his charge and all looks helpless; clobber him. And, if that doesn't work, terminate the threat if you can. This is all moral and legal.
5. If a hostile owner comes attached to that dog, ignore him and contact the police (I have arrested several irresponsible and hostile dog owners).
6. Never judge a dog by its breed but rather judge him by his actions. Because of this breed prejudice (they just don't know any better), we have to be more sensitive to how the public views our German Shepherd and Am Staff breeds.
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Good post Dannyboy Leather.

As far as training dogs, I think almost any breed can be trained to be good dogs, with the possible exception of Afghans. Not that they're bad dogs as pets, but you're not going to train them for much other than chasing down game.

Pit bulls? Despite the bad press they've gotten, every one that I've known personally has been lovable as all heck. They've been more interested in having their belly rubbed than in tearing your arm off.
 
ok the hubbub has died down! YAY!

i like to think we (WS&S contributors) all love animals, and would never INTENTIONALY harm an animal for sh*ts and giggles. I think that we all would use verbal commands like yelling or making ourselves look bigger BEFORE resorting to kicking or use of a tool as a defence. I think that we all would read the dogs behaviour BEFORE heading down the road of defense.

We all love our pooches, despite the face that yes, they are animals, they are also part of our family, and with that comes responsibility, both in training them well and when they are out and aboot in the forest where there may be other users. We also need to respect that OTHER people may not feel the same way we do about our dogs and some people may be scared of large animals/dogs.

ok nuff said, time for nachos and more beer.
 
evbouret said:
Forgot to mention. I know a guy that shot and killed 5 hunting dogs with a 10/22 that were in his yard grabbing one of his pen raised pigs.

He had to have reconstructive surgery on his face......Maybe things in Hawai'i just work differently then on the mainland?
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I am assuming that you mean the owners of the dog came and beat him up.

I hope he got at least 3 or 4 .22 bullets in each of those dogs owners before they got the gun away from him and beat him up. I hope those owners went to jail. If a wild pack of dogs comes on to my property and starts killing my animals, I will call animal control to come get the dead dogs off my property. (calling any mongrel a "hunting dog" or "Trained Hunting Dog" does not make it anything but a wild pack of mutts if it is on another person's property killing and attacking other animals.


I am not all gun ho to kill some one's dog. If a dog is just barking at me, fine. I am a big dude, and I have stared down many many barking snarling dogs that were just posturing. I have also lived in a third world country, where wild packs of street dogs killed and ate people all the time. Almost every day in the winters another adult would be killed and eaten. I have had to chase off snapping packs of mongrel dogs many many times. I have seen a grown man attacked by 10 dogs withing a stones throw of this country's capital building in broad daylight.

I am not going to yank out my gun and start blasting at a dog simply because he is near me, or near me and barking.

I am not going to boot a yappy little dog for simply invading my space.

But I really don't like aggressive dogs charging, or snapping, or what not.


If your dog is growling and barking at me with it's hackles raised, I sure as hell am going to do something if it makes a lunge at me. And don't be surprised if I have a gun in my hand, or am holding my hiking staff ready to brain it, or knife in my hand. A dog is just like a human, they don't have any more right to make me believe they are going to hurt me or my family than the owner does. I would not put up with an owner running toward me shouting obscenities with a knife in either hand, or brandishing a bat or tire iron while shouting you see this weapon, I am going to hurt you with it (which is basically what I understand a snapping snarling dog near me to be saying).

I really think in a one on one fight I could realistically kill most breeds of dogs with my hands if it was a life and death struggle, but I sure as heck would never want to have to do that with my bare hands. I think a bullet would be much preferable to surgery, or disfigurement, just because you tell me your dog "never bites" or is "friendly".

I have been a dog owner for most of my life, including owning a rottie, and a mongrel with a bit of pit in it. That mutt was mean looking when he was angry. He was a solid 70 lbs, and had a long stripe that would rise on his hackles when he felt threatened. He looked like a mutt yellow lab, but I would never let him run around trails barking at people, or bothering them.

I come across dogs daily off leash, and I am not too bothered by it. If the dog is behaving nicely, no problem. If it is barking at me, no problem again. When I am with my 4 year old on the trial, I really try to keep my self between the dog and my son. I am really not a fly off the handle type of guy.

I have been chased off of a dock by a black bear ( had to dive into the water, and surfaced under another dock). I have had a black bear try to get into the Landcruiser with me while my dad was trying to drive away, and my mom was trying to roll up the window. I have seen many bears out in the wild. Most wild animals want to leave you alone, and move off as soon as they notice you.

Seems like a lot of dogs are A#& Holes (or maybe I should say their owners are).

I have been face to face with many many dangerous wild animals.

I just don't think I should have to put up with it from some irresponsible owner's nasty dog (I don't care if you shout from 100 yards away that "Fluffy is nice", or "Chuckles won't bite."

When my 4 year old is with me, my aggression/response goes up exponentially.
 
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So if you can't control your dog, keep it on a leash.

"On a leash" means it won't slip the leash if it "sees a squirrel"

Really. Let's be a realistic.

Nobody here is going to go bashing and blasting Benji if they don't perceive a threat. If ya have a big pup and let it roll around loose running up on people, you run the chance of someone perceiving that as a threat. Otherwise, your good to go.

AGAIN, if you can't control your dog, keep it on a leash!

Here is a test, if anyone has EVER acted afraid around your dog on the trail, REGARDLESS of whether your dog was a threat or not, you PROBABLY should keep it on a leash at all times.
 
Jeff Venture said:
I'm safe.

I'm a cat person. No way 'Mister Kibbles' could cause any problems while hiking with me

...just trying to lighten the mood:rolleyes:
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I've actually taken a cat camping and hiking with me...on leash. Hiking with a cat means carrying it while half a dozen claws are sunk into your shoulder. I've certainly had better ideas.
 
PrimitiveMan said:
So if you can't control your dog, keep it on a leash.

"On a leash" means it won't slip the leash if it "sees a squirrel"

Really. Let's be a realistic.
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OK, I wanted to drop out of this but I call complete and total BS on this statement. Really, let's do be realistic. Dogs can and do slip their leashes/collars all the time. All mine are very friendly and don't bother people even when they've been off a leash. My 13 year old daughter's 10 pound rat terrier can slip her way out of a full shoulder halter without putting any pull on the leash. She is a Houdini of escaping collars and halters. She has almost no hair, being a rat terrier, and there's little fur friction to keep a collar/halter on her. My 40 pound mut rat terrier has done the same thing on a couple of occassions with his halter and with a collar (easier with a collar). Hell, he's backed himself out of choke chain while I was chatting with someone. Got ready to walk away when done talking and there he sits beside me waiting to go only I'm holding a leash with a vacant choke chain. I've seen loads of other people's dogs do it too so yeah, it can and does happen, even without a squirrel or something to excite a dog.
 
PrimitiveMan said:
Here is a test, if anyone has EVER acted afraid around your dog on the trail, REGARDLESS of whether your dog was a threat or not, you PROBABLY should keep it on a leash at all times.
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I understand where you're coming from here. But it does strike me that, as knife enthusiasts, we are often on the receiving end of similar logic. One could argue that the potential intimidation factor associated with wearing a belt knife on the trail should be reason enough to stow the knife or leave it at home, lest someone feel threatened. Apples and oranges? Perhaps - especially where there are bylaws and regulations involved. Still, I'm inclined to think that there's a huge grey area where common sense, case-by-case assessments, and increased tolerance play a role. My dog won't bite you (I'm using the general 'you' here), even if she runs up to say hello. And I won't stab you, even though I visibly carry a fixed blade. I can't control your perceptions or attitudes, and I will do my best to accommodate them - but I'm not going to go out of my way to modify my behaviour to avoid potential discomfort.

Best,

- Mike
 
I love dogs. I love dogs more than most people. And I would do just about anything possible not to hurt any dog.

The whole point of this thread was to say, "Attention people!" "If you cannot control your dog around other people, the responsible thing to do is to put a leash on him/her."

That is the message. And I happen to agree with it. I would go out of my way not to hurt a dog just like I would for a human. If a dog charges me I will deal with him/her the same way I would if a human charges me. I will defend myself with as much force as I feel is needed.

And if you have a well behaved dog, who cares if he/she is off the leash. I also don't get upset at a dog barking at me. Dogs bark. That's what dogs do. They are letting me know that they are there. A barking dog is almost never a human aggressive dog.

I think everyone here has the common sense on what is a dangerous situation. And for the record, if your dog is off the leash and attacks or attempts to attack me or my loved ones. I will do what I can to not hurt the dog. However, I will not hold as much restraint on the irresponsible owner.
 
kr1 said:
Good point. :rolleyes:

How about this. I will stop stabbing it when I can't reach it with my knife??
That seems to make sense to me. If its close enough to reach with my knife, and its just bite me, I think I would still consider it a threat. Just sayin.

Oh, and as a sidenote. I have little concern what the owners attempted response would be and my suggestion would be to be very careful. I don't want to hurt or kill a dog but if the threat raised to that level I suspect I'll be more hopped up on adrenalin then you so you might be wise to approach the situation with a more docile approach rather than make me think the threat level has increased.
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Or you might still be a little too preoccupied with killing the dog to see the owner coming at you with much the same intention.
Lovely style of thinking though. :rolleyes:
 
dipbait said:
I would hope so too, but I am sincerely shocked by this thread. :eek:
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I don't shock easily, but I do think it's sad how people feel a need to display what they perceive as tough behavior. Most of those threatening to kill or maim a dog in some rather extreme way would probably never even say anything to let their annoyance be known. they'd just whine about it to their wife once they got home.
This type of macho talk is heard all over the Net, everybody realizes it about everybody else but no one applies it to themselves.
Like I said, people (THOSE people) need to lighten up.
 
fespo276 said:
My two cents.

I do not want to interact, on any level, with anybody-else's animal. Period. I don't want to pet it, talk to it, or play with it.

Should I have to?

Nice. Mean. It does not matter.

I would not tolerate another human getting in my personal space. Why should I have to tolerate it from an animal?
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No one disputes this. The OP asked how to handle such a situation. A fairly large minority claims to be willing to use force (up to and including killing) against a dog they deem annoying, aggressive, threatening, as the case may be.

So the question is, how do YOU handle it?
 
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