Don't buy Cold Steel anymore!

Madnumforce said:
You americans disappoint me much. I thought Founding Fathers left you more than a taste for money and legal fusspoting.
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Mr. Kearns, a onetime Wayne State University professor, received numerous patents in 1967 for his design for wipers that pause between swipes for use in very light rain or mist. The invention permits the driver to set the interval at which the wiper sweeps the window.

He tried to interest various automakers in his invention but did not reach a licensing deal with any of them.

But carmakers eventually began offering intermittent wipers.

Mr. Kearns sued the Ford Motor Company in 1978 and Chrysler in 1982, accusing them of patent infringement.

In 1990, a jury decided that Ford had infringed on Mr. Kearns's patent, though it concluded that the infringement had not been deliberate. Ford contended that the patent was invalid because the windshield system contained no new concepts.

But Mr. Kearns said a new combination of parts made his invention unique.

That jury failed to agree on how much he should be awarded, and another jury later ordered Ford to pay Mr. Kearns $6.3 million, which a judge cut to $5.2 million.

To settle the case, Ford later agreed to pay $10.2 million and to drop all appeals.

Chrysler was ordered to pay Mr. Kearns $18.7 million and interest. The Supreme Court of the United States rejected Chrysler's bid to overturn the award in 1995.

"I don't think the goal was the magnitude of the money," Mr. Kearns said when the Ford case ended. He said his role "was to defend the patent system."

Later, his lawsuit against General Motors was dismissed, as were his lawsuits against foreign carmakers. Much of the money he was awarded went to legal expenses.


Citroen, Renault and Peugeot did not pay the inventor one dime for the use of his invention. Should I be dissapointed in the French people?
 
Dr. Mudd said:
We are not all alike over here. I think very highly of your Douk-Douk and Opinel knives.
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No one is all alike anywhere and if madnumforce doesn't realize that I would have to call him close-minded. Don't be an American apologist, Dr. Mudd (and my apologies in advance if I assume too much from your statement), there are good people and utter a-holes in every country in the world.


On another note, it kinda bugs me that he can make blanket statments like that, "you americans disappoint me much....". If it was an American making such an absurd statement about the French, well, it would be worth a warning at least, wouldn't it?
 
"Citroen, Renault and Peugeot did not pay the inventor one dime for the use of his invention."

Can you prove it? You mentionned those who tried to deceive the inventor, but i guess you won't find a site where all those who didn't cheat are listed. But i guess the inventor have enough with his about 20 millions dollar to have a nice retirement :D .


"We are not all alike over here. I think very highly of your Douk-Douk and Opinel knives."

If there is one thing i know, it's that America is THE country of possibilities. You've got such a large country, with so much different styles of living and being. French people are certainly much more "formated" and simmilar to each other than Americans. I will never put you all in one single bucket, and hope you'll keep this freedom and independance forever, cause that's the America i appreciate.

But thanks for the compliment about our knives, there wasn't much from the beginning of the thread. If you're interested (and don't already know), i can try to make you discover a bit of our traditionnal cutlery. We don't only make Opinels, Douks and Laguioles ^^ .
 
"On another note, it kinda bugs me that he can make blanket statments like that, "you americans disappoint me much....". "

I'm sorry if it "bugs" you, it wasn't the purpose. I was just kind of amazed by the reactions i read more often like: "i there is a patent violation, a court will decide" , "everybody copies anyone, why do you come bothering", etc... Maybe i am too optimistic about my own people, but i think i wouldn't have got such reactions from French. If an American have said "french peoples disappoint me much: they only see the bad and dark side of things" or "they never act to change things they dislike" (what's often true), i would have accepted it. If it was to say "froggies" and things like that, it's not the same.
 
Madnumforce said:
"On another note, it kinda bugs me that he can make blanket statments like that, "you americans disappoint me much....". "

I'm sorry if it "bugs" you, it wasn't the purpose. I was just kind of amazed by the reactions i read more often like: "i there is a patent violation, a court will decide" , "everybody copies anyone, why do you come bothering", etc... Maybe i am too optimistic about my own people, but i think i wouldn't have got such reactions from French. If an American have said "french peoples disappoint me much: they only see the bad and dark side of things" or "they never act to change things they dislike" (what's often true), i would have accepted it. If it was to say "froggies" and things like that, it's not the same.
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You have to understand, this is a topic that has been beaten to death here over the last few years. It may be new info to you but, the sad truth is, to most posters here it is just very old news. Besides, at least 9 times out of 10, you can get a better product than a CS offering elsewhere. and for the same amount of money.


I spent some time in your country about 10 years ago and I am comfortable in saying that your countrymen are both some of the nicest (and very welcoming) and some of the rudest people I have ever met. Of course, the exact same thing could be said about Americans and I believe that is what bothered me about your statement. People are not really very different depending on the country; we just create differences.
 
"Citroen, Renault and Peugeot did not pay the inventor one dime for the use of his invention."

Can you prove it? You mentionned those who tried to deceive the inventor, but i guess you won't find a site where all those who didn't cheat are listed. But i guess the inventor have enough with his about 20 millions dollar to have a nice retirement

The inventor, Mr. Kearns, is dead now. No, I cannot prove a negative. I suppose I could show that his invention was used by those mentioned French manufacturers. Can you show that they paid the inventor licensing fees?

That was not my point. Ownership of intellectual property is not forever. Once it has been marketed and I.P. protections have run their course, the design belongs to the world, not the inventor. If you wish to prove a positive in relation to your company's ownership of the knife design, please direct me to the active patent number. Patents only give protection for a limited time. After that time, the design is in the public domain and anyone may produce it. To have it otherwise would stifle commerce worldwide.

Now, discussing knives. One of my ancestors made the first metal knife. I demand a royalty on every knife produced since them. A penny a knife would suffice. Otherwise, stop producing them.:D
 
Madnumforce said:
" If you're interested (and don't already know), i can try to make you discover a bit of our traditionnal cutlery. We don't only make Opinels, Douks and Laguioles ^^ .
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That's a great idea. Maybe you could start a new thread?
 
There was one thing really excellent in french (and certainly in most european countries) "laws" of the medieval age. I don't remember the name, even in french, but here is the concept: most laws were not fixed by assemblies or kings or lords, cause they had other things to care about, but by the habbits. If something was done such way from a long time, it is considerated that's the right thing to do. The link with cutlery? Simply that the use of steel, bowie blade, lockback, etc.. is an habbit, no one could claim any right upon it, and it's not a matter of "public domain" or anything. The Douk and it's look and mechanics, instead, is not something that have been made usually by lots of peoples from a long time. It's the specific model of a specific company that produce it from a long time, no matter if there is any valid patent actually. It's kind of the privilege of Cognet cutlery to produce it, at least in "commercial" quantities (some handmade models or small run local productions here and there are not "endangering" Cognet). It doesn't seem so hard to understand, that behaviour not only depends on laws, but also on habbits, morals, etc... And in this case, CS is doing perfectly legal things: there is certainly no Douk patent valid nowadays, and the design is different enough to be considerate it's not a patent violation. But it is morally wrong to steal a design long used by another, and used by him only. Not everything legal is morally right, i'll guess you agree with me on this point.
 
"Maybe you could start a new thread?"

Well... why not, after all? I'm very interested in knives and swords from other cultures, guess some on this forum could also like to see a bit of our traditionnal cutlery.
 
As far I understood, that CS knife have a ( good ?) lock and concerning the general aspect is more closer to a Sebenza than a Douk. I don't like very much CS ( but I have some CS knives, including Recon 1, Ti Lite, Caledonian Edge and Spectre ) but I'd say that this particular example is not enough to prove that CS had stolen Douk design.
BTW, is a mystery to me why CS chose to use Ultralock instead to buy Axis from BM ?
Ultralock (TM ) is a complicated way to implement such a good ( and natural ) design like Axis :)
 
The three thread that I love to see

1) Strider blah blah blah Military Career

2) Strider VS Sebenza

3) Cold Steel Stealing Design



We should have a separate sub forum for just these three thread :D, We would solve so much of the clutter

aj
 
Some knife designs are so old that you will never be able to prove who made the first one, let alone say that no one can copy them (think bowie......no one owns the style). Most styles of knives, canadian belt knife, fin bear, roach belly designs are older than the traditional bowie. any one who wants can make one. that is like saying you can't copy my drop point hunter, I invented it.


Now, some designs, especially the locking mechanisms can be new enough to pattent (which only gives you a limited exclusive time period, then when it expires everyone is free to copy it).

Some one complaining about the douk design, isn't that design as old as world war I????? or WWII? any one who wants is free to copy it.
 
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If the French believe in "habbit" so much how come there are at least a dozen different companies making "laguiole" folders? Seems like Calmels should be the only one with the right.
And how come most of them have copied American folder designs like the Buck 110 at one time or another?
 
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