Don't know about Elmax

People, if you want to cut more agressive material try putting a stouter edge on your knife. I can open a package with a 40 degree edge just as easily as I can with a 30 degree edge. It'll hold a working edge longer and is more resistant to chipping. Plus, often times production knives have a 30 degree primary bevel so it's cake to swipe on a 40 degree microbevel with the Sharpmaker. I disagree with the notion that supersteels can handle, and therefor should have, thinner edges especially ones that are at a high hrc. Typically hardness comes at the expense of toughness. So it's no surprise they'll chip out sometimes with hard abrasive use. Sure it won't zip through tissue paper but, you're not shaving with it.
 
I think instead of saying "Use the right tool for the job", one should say instead "use the right steel for the job". ;)
 
Smokinape said:
I got an elmax blade and I grew two inches, lost 10lbs and my hair got thicker...
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Lmao that's to funny. It's also sad so many people have had prob with this. Every cutlery steel we have these days is of quality. Some excel some dont but none of them are junk. Even the best steel heat treated improperly is just scrap
 
I keep around a 30° inclusive edge on my 0561. Its pretty thick behind the edge at the stock 44° or so mine came at, and thinning it out a hair still left it pretty beefy.

Too be honest, all my blades that have thin, lean grinds usually get a 40-50° edge that I'll round the shoulders off to make a hybrid v edge with convexed shoulders.

Boredom does weird things to your knives.

And when I need great wear resistance, I'll reach for some 204P or S90V or even M4. ELMAX is just cool because it offers wear resistance somewhere around S30V, corrosion resistance like 440C, and possesses toughness that is very impressive for a medium carbide powdered stainless steel. Oh, and it takes a very keen edge, much finer than other steels in its class save for CPM154 which blew me away.

One last thing, if you are unhappy with the performance of ELMAX you can always send it off to have its hardness tested and bumped up a couple points. I've heard good things when its run around 62-63. I know that it shouldn't need to be "fixed" from the factory, but its probably worth the extra trouble if its a really good design.
 
I was very disappointed in my Elmax 560. It would dull after very simple use. I could get 2 days mild use out of it before i had to strop or hone blade. I love that knife just not the steel. I finally sent it in to ZT to warranty. They put a new Elmax blade on (I asked for anything but the Elmax) paid $30. And it should be back anyday now. I very much want the new steel to be improved from the first blade. If it is not i have arranged to get it heat treated.
1 thing i can say Bout my Elmax on my 560 was it didn't chip or do anything but just dull in all the times i used it. Occasionally it went through some very difficult materials and came out with no chips, or anything that one might see in other steels. For that i did like Elmax and it was very easy to strop back.
I really think people should make arrangements to send in there ZT if they think they have a problem with this steel. How else can they improve if they can't see What's wrong. This is just my personal thought.
 
What do you consider difficult materials? Do you strop with heavy pressure? Have you had to do a full sharpening yet?
 
I'm a plumber so if i forgot lets say my razor in truck and i needed to open a water heater box (open not break down) after doing 2 the steel wouldn't cut paper. I could strop back most times after 4-5 light runs. After this went on for few months i reprofiled edge 40 convex it cut better but still dulled fast. There are these long thin plants that grow real tall in backyard so i would cut those to compare how long the edge would hold. Simple things like that that a knife for military or law enforcement would be expected to shrug off. Like i said I'm getting a new blade from ZT so i hope this will at least give me the performance i have from my other knives.
 
GMAHN said:
I love how knives are hard use on this forum till they end up not holding up well and everone dog piles and says that you were stupid for using a knife to cut something.
Quite a few people have made claims that ZT Elmax is too brittle. Give us a picture of what you cut and what your knife looks like. I have a feeling that this cable you cut is really just a tiny soft strand of metal that should hold no issue for a decent knife.
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I agree on all counts. Are ZT knives billed as hard core hard use? And do they actually live up to the hype?

I have never been stranded on a desert island or lost in the wilderness or survived a zombie apocalypse, but I imagine that if any of those scenarios does happen, a knife will be put thru much more than just cutting a wire price tag or a zip tie!?
I think I would be more than just a little bit hesitant to trust my life to a knife that couldn't even stand up to those cutting tasks.

All this talk if super steels and exotic blades...I have a knife made of 1075 steel; probably a 60 year old formula that started life as a piece of farm equipment and Richard J turned into a knife he calls Kii.
I watched as he took this knife and sliced the fingers off of a Kevlar glove with no damage to the edge whatsoever. I cant even say how many 2 x 4 boards I have chopped in half and still shaved hair off of my arm!
It really is too bad that some feel it is necessary to insult the op for using what is so often touted as an extreme hard use knife for something other than slicing an apple.
 
Wanted to add.
OP, if your edge was damaged like you say, you really should contact KAI and perhaps send your knife and the item that you cut for evaluation.
That would be the fair and honest thing to do rather than just providing anecdotal evidence.
 
For information only:

The "issue" with "burnt edges" resulting in subpar edge retention wasn't isolated to ZT. The LionSteel TiSpine had this "issue" as well. It has nothing to do with the superb steel itself. Also, you can "fix it" with cycles of resharpening, etc. I have no idea how widespread the issue was/is but I've been lucky I guess.

Here's a video where Gavko talks about it:

[video=youtube;J1d1JmaPAbo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1d1JmaPAbo[/video]
 
If burnt edges are the problem I would imagine that it would take more than a few reprofile jobs to get past the wonky HT bits.
I wish I could request my preordered ZT0770 to come without factory sharpening. Still, KAI has know about this supposed issue for a while now. If this is still the problem, and I'm not saying it is or isn't, then I'd be really surprised and disappointed a US factory can't get their stuff straight.
 
Funny I cut plenty of thin steel cable with 440a and all that happens is a rolled edge.

Amazing how good that 440a steel truly is.;)
 
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I reprofiled the Elmax blade on my 0560 to 30 degrees inclusive, which created a wide edge bevel on such a thick blade. For what it's worth, I just now used it to cut a three-wire, 12 gauge electrical cable in half. No loss of sharpness. No edge damage.

Did the same thing with my Rukus in S30V with same edge angle. Same result.

DSC01989_zpsf48ee0a8.jpg
 
Twindog said:
I reprofiled the Elmax blade on my 0560 to 30 degrees inclusive, which created a wide edge bevel on such a thick blade. For what it's worth, I just now used it to cut a three-wire, 12 gauge electrical cable in half. No loss of sharpness. No edge damage.

Did the same thing with my Rukus in S30V with same edge angle. Same result.

DSC01989_zpsf48ee0a8.jpg
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I looked on the KAI website and it isn't specific. It says the edges are 18 - 22 degrees but not whether that is included or per side, which makes a big difference.

So do you believe the factory edges are weak and you had to re profile to a different angle to get a stronger edge?

I honestly find that more believable than all this nonsense of burnt edges.
 
The steel on my ZT was nice and clean just wouldnt stay sharp. Also is it possible they weren't burnt maybe discolored. I have no idea how any blade making is done on any scale so i wouldn't know.
 
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cncpro11 said:
I looked on the KAI website and it isn't specific. It says the edges are 18 - 22 degrees but not whether that is included or per side, which makes a big difference.

So do you believe the factory edges are weak and you had to re profile to a different angle to get a stronger edge?

I honestly find that more believable than all this nonsense of burnt edges.
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I reprofiled to 30 degrees inclusive because the factory edge was too obtuse to be a good cutter, especially on such a thick blade. I've had no problems with the steel, but I did have to grind away quite a bit of the factory edge to get to a 30-degree angle.
 
I'm not blown away by the Elmax in my 0560. It's got a few very minor nicks and dings from light everyday use (opening packages, etc, no metal cutting or "extreme" use). I actually haven't sharpened it yet...I'm hoping a good sharpening will fix this.
 
Go search the KAI sub forum archive, just about all of the trash talk has been debunked. True Elmax shines at a higher rc than KAI heat treats it. Of course if they ran it at 62 you would have a bunch of people crying that it's too hard to sharpen. Honestly no matter what you do people are going to cry, but then if there's always people gunning for you I'd say you are doing something right. Start out shining the competition... Those fans attack. Make hard use tactical knives... People cry that all you make is overbuilt tanks that aren't practical for edc. Start to branch out and diversify your lineup... Now these knives will be attacked for not being tank like; I mean it's a zt right that is all they are ever allowed to produce. Can't win for losing.
 
RamZar said:
For information only:

The "issue" with "burnt edges" resulting in subpar edge retention wasn't isolated to ZT. The LionSteel TiSpine had this "issue" as well. It has nothing to do with the superb steel itself. Also, you can "fix it" with cycles of resharpening, etc. I have no idea how widespread the issue was/is but I've been lucky I guess.
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BrentD86 said:
Go search the KAI sub forum archive, just about all of the trash talk has been debunked. Can't win for losing.
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So which is it? Spreading to other companies and no longer isolated to KAI or thoroughly debunked?
 
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