dont touch that factory edge !!!!

Heavy handed: the gist of your post that discusses the proper edge for the application I am in agreement with. The part I took issue with was the bit about industrial cutting tools. I have been using them for more than 20 years, and there is a definite difference between the tool life on a high speed steel tool (for example a drill) depending on the surface finish of the cutting edge. I hand hone every drill I sharpen, and they outlast an as-ground edge by 3 to 1 or even better in most cases when drilling carbon steel. With industrial cutting tools, if there is a coarse ground finish, the high points tend to take all the force of the cut, which rapidly wears and rolls those high points. Once this happens, they are rubbing, not cutting. They then begin to roll and wear even more, and this worn surface becomes wider and wider, eventually wiping out the whole edge. The worn spots also build heat rapidly, which is another edge killer.
 
eKretz said:
Heavy handed: the gist of your post that discusses the proper edge for the application I am in agreement with. The part I took issue with was the bit about industrial cutting tools. I have been using them for more than 20 years, and there is a definite difference between the tool life on a high speed steel tool (for example a drill) depending on the surface finish of the cutting edge. I hand hone every drill I sharpen, and they outlast an as-ground edge by 3 to 1 or even better in most cases when drilling carbon steel. With industrial cutting tools, if there is a coarse ground finish, the high points tend to take all the force of the cut, which rapidly wears and rolls those high points. Once this happens, they are rubbing, not cutting. They then begin to roll and wear even more, and this worn surface becomes wider and wider, eventually wiping out the whole edge. The worn spots also build heat rapidly, which is another edge killer.
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I'm the same, machinist for 10 years and all my drills outlast anyone elses because I finish them on a stone...having a "toothy" edge on a large diameter drill would eat it away in no time (especially on 4140 etc), once you get a burn happening its game over and I usually friction saw the tip off and begin again.

On a CNC tool life can dictate your job, if you grind a drill and it lasts 1 hour and you spend 5 mins sharpening it thats lossed productivity which over a week builds up. Where as if I spend 15 mins honing it and I get 1 day out of that drill I have some job safety.
 
eKretz said:
Heavy handed: the gist of your post that discusses the proper edge for the application I am in agreement with. The part I took issue with was the bit about industrial cutting tools. I have been using them for more than 20 years, and there is a definite difference between the tool life on a high speed steel tool (for example a drill) depending on the surface finish of the cutting edge. I hand hone every drill I sharpen, and they outlast an as-ground edge by 3 to 1 or even better in most cases when drilling carbon steel. With industrial cutting tools, if there is a coarse ground finish, the high points tend to take all the force of the cut, which rapidly wears and rolls those high points. Once this happens, they are rubbing, not cutting. They then begin to roll and wear even more, and this worn surface becomes wider and wider, eventually wiping out the whole edge. The worn spots also build heat rapidly, which is another edge killer.
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Ahh, now if Ditch_Digger had qualified his "polished edge" statement by saying "in high(er) speed machining operations..." There's no doubt that at high speed your tool finish needs to be very clean. In my shop, the volumes and number of cycles per tend to be a quite a bit lower, nearly in the realm of what a hand-held tool might be capable of, and we're not cutting steel. much of the equipment sport visible grinding patterns, esp if using a bed knife with an active cutter. One of these has cut no fewer than 7 million feet of heavy paper with no intervention. Presumably the grind was left like that because it was insignificant to the operation, or was seen as desirable so it would grab the stock somewhat while making the cut. For every job a perfect tool, and the brightest edge might not be it.
 
stitchawl said:
They work. They don't give the sort of edges we get with EdgePro, but they work. If you're in a hurry, and have them already set up in a shop, and don't care about a really fine edge, they have their place.



Absolutely. Now... if someone would like to show me some of this magic steel that can cut rebar, push-cut tempered glass, chop down trees, and still shave their face, I'll be the first to apologize for not believing it so.



That really IS impressive. And we do have a couple of folks here who can do it. I'm not one of 'em. I can get a shaving edge free hand, but it's not nearly as pretty as what I get with an EdgePro.



You are shaking up the paradigm of the younger generation! :)


Stitchawl
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Here's your proof... http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=821538

I think you should eat your words!
 
Charlie Mike said:
Here's your proof... http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=821538

I think you should eat your words!
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He would just allege that the initial cuts were made by a hatchet wielding midget being hung upside down (off camera) and perhaps even said midget also had a portable sharpening device inserted anally and able to be used on the upswing.

Doubters are doubters no matter what the truth is.

Nice Knife Richard ! Nice Vid also.:thumbup:
 
5.56 said:
Here you go Stitchawl.

This is Richardj's K2 chopping wood and then cleanly slicing newspaper. ;)
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Yes, there is no doubt that he is chopping wood. I can clearly see a section of log about 2"-3" being chopped with a long bladed knife. Then I see newspaper being sliced with a long bladed knife.

What I don't see is the same section of the blade that was doing the chopping doing the slicing. Sorry.


Stitchawl
 
Well I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure either.

But knowing Richard like I do, I have no reason to believe he would lie or falsify the results.
 
5.56 said:
Well I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure either.

But knowing Richard like I do, I have no reason to believe he would lie or falsify the results.
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I agree completely. He would NOT falsify the results. If I were chopping, I too would use the forward end of the blade for my chop. It makes good sense. And when I begin to cut newspaper, I too would use the section closer to the handle to make my slice. I think anyone would. As these videos show.


Stitchawl
 
stitchawl said:
I agree completely. He would NOT falsify the results. If I were chopping, I too would use the forward end of the blade for my chop. It makes good sense. And when I begin to cut newspaper, I too would use the section closer to the handle to make my slice. I think anyone would. As these videos show.


Stitchawl
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I watched the video a few times and I have to disagree with you. It looks to me that newspaper is being cut with the same general area of the edge that was contacting the wood.
 
stitchawl just inst man enough to admit he is wrong :rolleyes: i showed my buddy frostymug56 who is a member here k II the edge after i made the vid. he said it was still sharp enough to shave.
 
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richard brought kll by my place after his video filming. i can tell you, there was wood sap, and maring the full lenght of the blade;[ clear it was done chopping, and not put there for effect]. the damn thing was still SCARY sharp. would i have shaved with it, not without BARBERSOL,, but it would probly do the job. Stitchawl: if ya don't beleive ya should come see for yourself in person.
 
back to the original post,, why would anyone buy a knife, then turn around & redo the edge. should of bought a knife that better suited you in the first place."JMO". i have never bought a knife that i didn't look over b4 the cash changed hands. if i didn't like the blade,i looked at another one. i've had richard sharpen my knifes for years, no complants. although i do have a buck he has NEVER been allowed to sharpen. not that he couldn't. but it only comes out for deer season, gets SLOWLY honed on a old oil stone that came from dad. the stone i still got; the old man is gone. but the memories of hunting & good times are in that stone. sometimes its NOT how sharp ya can get your knife; or how it got that way. it's about the TOOL in your hand & the ones that helped put it there.
 
frostymug56 said:
. sometimes its NOT how sharp ya can get your knife; or how it got that way. it's about the TOOL in your hand & the ones that helped put it there.
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I agree completely. I've gt a couple of old knives my Grandpa made from sawmill blades way back in the day. Maybe not the fanciest tools, but I wouldn't trade them for anything. Also, RichardJ is a stand up guy. If he says it, I have no reason to doubt him.
 
richardj,

Except for my Shun kitchen knives, I'm going to keep using resharpening edges on arrival. Part of it is because I prefer very thin edges with a lot of polish for most of my enjoyment and part of it is because I'm quite insecure and changing the edge makes me feel like a special little snowflake.
 
Goes to the issue of the undertones that I personally find disturbing about this thread (and some on Forums in general) Forums are and should be about the sharing of information on common subjects which bind individuals of common interests and disparate backgrounds.
Opinions will differ and be discussed accordingly but then something goes wrong.
Somebody starts to call into question (usually without cause) some ones integrity or motivation and the whole process takes a turn.
My understanding here was that the OP started by making a very simple statement, one that I characterized as common sense (my opinion) stated about his opinion. Some agree with OP's opinion and some disagree that is where the discussion begins. Where it should not go but, ALL threads seem to go as do all arguments when someone starts to argue an untenable position ... it gets personal. If the argument is "in person" tones and volume are used as well as the verbage.
Now, we are dissecting the video like it's the Zapruder Film. Why?
Richard seems to get very good results from a certain method of sharpening. Is it my way of sharpening? No but, it doesn't change the facts. He gets Knives- Sharp. I have not heard anyone chime in here and say, "He sharpened one of my knives and it sucked".
I have heard more than one person say quite the opposite so what is issue? Seems as though there is a hidden one. Man, do I hate when people hide behind bushes.
 
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