Dowsing: Fact or Fiction?

JCavSD said:
Hate to see someone walking around with a couple sticks, dying of thirst, when they could be doing something constructive.
Click to expand...

Can you objectively prove that has ever happened?

:)

Just as you accuse people of confusing belief with science, be careful not to confuse lack of current scientific proof with evidence.

"Scientists can be wrong — sometimes, very wrong. The history of science is replete with serious errors of judgment, bad research, faked results, and simple mistakes, made by scientists in every field".....D.J. Grothe President of the James Randi Educational Foundation.

:D
 
T. Erdelyi said:
The only reason you see a blue sky when ya lookup is because you've been told all your life it was blue, what if you grew up thinkin' it was fuzzy and no one told ya different, would it make it any less real to you, unless you're conductin' extensive research and experiments on your own, once again you're a tape recorder just replayin' what ya heard and presentin' it as what you believe.
Click to expand...

We all look up and see roughly the same thing regardless of what we call it. It's what we do with it from there that matters...it's how we process and evaluate what we experience that makes the big difference. I agree...some people just replay what they've always heard...but that's not evaluation. Belief is a feeble sister to knowledge.
 
Bear Claw Chris Lappe said:
Can you objectively prove that has ever happened?

:)

Just as you accuse people of confusing belief with science, be careful not to confuse lack of current scientific proof with evidence.

"Scientists can be wrong — sometimes, very wrong. The history of science is replete with serious errors of judgment, bad research, faked results, and simple mistakes, made by scientists in every field".....D.J. Grothe President of the James Randi Educational Foundation.

:D
Click to expand...

The beauty of science is that it actively seeks to prove itself wrong...it's built into scientific method. The same can't be said for simple human belief.
 
As my last comment on a thread that has left the scope of this subforum, (it has become an I'm right your wrong thread) which if we're not careful will wind up in W&C but I digress, science is constantly evolvin' and reevaluatin' the context of what we as a society believe to be real, when you draw a line in the sand as to what is real to you and others and declare anyone who believes different to be wrong, be careful as you stand behind that line, that you don't get left behind as science marches after all it is really only the popular belief based on available information.

You are entitled to your beliefs as I am mine and I have nuthin' to prove to anyone and don't really care if anyone believes me.

So until this winds up in W&C I'll just be "...readin' with interest...".
 
I really don't agree that science = popular belief + available information. Regardless, it's important for people to understand the nature of their beliefs, and to comprehend the pros and cons of acting on these beliefs. When looking for water I would recommend putting energy towards looking for visible signs of water as opposed to witching.
 
When we were getting ready to build our family house on the farm there was an old pump house that pumped water from a spring on the other side of the property up to a storage tank which fed the old house through a gravity system. My parents wanted to put in a well and a pump near the house, but everyone we talked to said there wasn't enough water for something like that. But my neighbor came by with a couple wooden rods and said he would find where the water was. We thought he was joking but he went out and walked around the site we had chosen for the house. he walked back and forth for about 10 min and then stopped and stuck a stick in the ground. He told my parents to have the well dug right there. He said they will need to go down a little farther than normal, but that there was plenty of water right there. My dad was a little skeptical, but he went ahead and called the company to come out and drill the well. They drilled down to the normal depth and there was no water...they asked my dad if they should stop but he said to just keep going, and that they would find the water. they drilled another 300ft before they hit it. When i was a younger we went to Yellowstone and I remember seeing Old Faithful go off. The water that shot up out of the well made the geyser look like child's play. The people from the well company said there was enough water down there to supply the whole town if we wanted to. We have had that well for over 10 years now and never had an issue...even during the drought. I can't offer any evidence that it wasn't just luck, but it made a believer out of me.
 
lol...i know what an Aquifer is. I graduated from USAM with a degree in Environmental Geography.

I am from Western, NC in the mountains about 20 min from the TN border.

this is a general map of the major aquifer systems in NC:
map_chaq.gif


The geology of my area does not lend its self to aquifers, but rather the accumulation of water in cracks and crevices which have formed due to erosion of impermeable rock. So when the well was dug it tapped into one of these pockets. An aquifer is the accumulation of water in a permeable rock (such as limestone or chalk), or unconsolidated rocks(ie...smaller mixed rocks to include sand and various types of gravel). its true that if there was an aquifer it would be possible to just dill until you reached it, but in this case they just happened to drill down and hit water.
 
Good, then you understand that there can be "local" aquifers that a neighbor may be aware of?
 
bladerique said:
I believe in facts and science, not mystic bullcrap. Sorry fellas, this is junk.
Click to expand...

Science does not discriminate nor does it keep it's database closed to new proven theories.

Your comment is the utmost self-doubtful one in this thread
 
xtestifyx said:
Science does not discriminate nor does it keep it's database closed to new proven theories.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The real question seems to be what constitutes "proven". At best witching falls into the pseudo-science category. Could be a tragedy for someone in desperate need of resources to rely on myth over reason.
 
yes, i understand that there could be local aquifers, but for that the be the case the geology of the area where I live would have to be different.

NCgeomap.jpg


If you look at the the map above...on the western edge you will see two belts of tan and olive. these are representing the metamorphic rocks of what is called the Blue Ridge Belt. They are basically what makes up the Appalachian Mountains. The extend from the Brevard Fault, the eastern limit which can be seen as the divide between the olive and the blue, to the opposite side of the Blue Ridge Mtns near the TN border. The Brevard fault is no longer active, but in the past the Appalachian Mtns were actually taller than the Himalayas in Asia. We know this because of the isostatic depression, which refers to the rise of mountains as they erode. Basically a mountain is like an iceberg. When the compression forces of the two tectonic plate converge and the mountains are pushed up there is also a larger amount which is subverted under the surface of the earth. Lets just say there is still allot of mountain under the surface, and as the mountains are eroded this rock rises to take its place. The compression that caused the mountains to form is responsible for the geology of the area. The rocks formed are both ingenious and metamorphic. The majority of rocks found in the area today are metamorphic because at the time of the mountain range's creation they were being formed beneath the surface. These types of rocks are not permeable. Permeability, which is key to having an aquifer, is a function of the amount of porespace in the rock and how interconnected the pore space is: granite and other intrusive igneous rocks have very interlocking grain structure and little pore space therefore they also have a low permeability. Metamorphic rocks, which crystallise under high pressures, have no pore space. In metamorphic rocks the alignment of the platy minerals can also serves to further destroy permeability. No permeability equals no aquifer. But as I said in my last post It is possible for these rocks to be cracked and worn down leaving gaps for water to be stored. think of it like a collecting pool. the water fills the gaps and then flows down to the lower elevations and into the aquifers located near the Piedmont and coastal areas. With out the mountains the aquifers wouldn't have a way to replenish their water. Most of the rain comes from West To east and is squeezed out of the atmosphere by oragraphic lifting as it comes into contact with the mountains. The rain water then filters its way down into the cracks in crevices where it pools until the spaces are full. From there it trickles down even farther repeating the process until it finds its way out of the mountains and into the aquifer.

It is possible for isolated (local) aquifers to exist, but only where the geology of an area will allow it. I am not saying you have to believe that two sticks can find water, but in the case that i mentioned it is not possible for an aquifer to be the reason water was found on my farm. If you don't want to believe just chalk it up to luck. Its not a big deal.
 
Last edited:
Side cutting plier 2 wire coat hangers ,cut the hook off straighten the wire's then bend one end "L" shape walk around the house and see.
 
I get how it all works, but in no way does it lend validity to witching. Water is funky stuff, and it doesn't always act as expected. Broad generalities about regional aquifers often won't explain local conditions. It's almost like weather...in the same region there may be micro-climates that sharply distinguish one local area from another. My point is that it's better to understand that micro-climates exist rather than holding a couple sticks together and hoping that they'll accurately relay the weather conditions.
 
I dont want this to sound like I am trying to be a dick. I have actually really enjoying this conversation. That being said:

Water is a liquid and it acts exactly like it is supposed to, and i wasn't speaking about a broad generality. I was being very specific about a very small region which I happen to know quite well. Geology is absolutely nothing like weather, and I have a very good understanding of micro climates, but we have been talking geology so I am not going to go into that. My point is that my understanding of these things is what makes me believe that somehow the process of divining was successful in this one case. I can't speak for other cases...I wasn't there. Like I said it could be luck or it could be witchery. I personally choose to believe that there are just some things out there that we can not explain, and I am ok with that.
 
I enjoy this conversation too, but I'm not catching your logic. "Water is a liquid and it acts exactly like it is supposed to..." vs. "I personally choose to believe that there are just some things out there that we can not explain, and I am ok with that." Well, I'm explaining it to you, so maybe you should be ok with my reasoning? Does that prove my point? Of course not. Water acts like water, but local and regional condition play a large part in how water is dispersed. I've seen water main breaks that surface directly above the main, and in the same general area I've seen water main breaks that surface 1/2 mile away from the leak. Listen, if witching was valid then the James Randi Foundation would be out more than a few bucks, and there would be a massive demand for "witchers". At least in the public sector we look at witching as an old-time joke (except for the few old-timers hanging on). Technology and knowledge brings us much closer to reality than sticks.
 
Not doubting it works,but I'm pretty sure that about 320 years in a certain eastern city this practice would've gotten you burned at the stake.
Thank God for change!
 
Last edited:
what I meant by saying that water is a liquid and acts the way that it should is that we know how it will interact with different substances under different conditions...in this specific case the rocks that make up the geology of the area around my farm. When I said that "I personally choose to believe that there are just some things out there that we can not explain, and I am ok with that." i was referring to my neighbor being bale to find the water with two sticks. I know that the geology of my area lends its self to pools of ground water trapped in the spaces caused by fracturing and erosion. I know that to find these pools it typically takes allot of solid geologic and hydrological work in the form of fracture trace analysis. What i can't explain is how he found the water without going through this process. Your example with the water main breaks is valid, but if someone with an understanding of both hydrology and the geology around the mains was to look at it they could tell you why the water surfaced when and where it did. Your comment about the witchery made me laugh. I agree with you about the technology and knowledge bringing us closer to reality, but with the knowledge i have, i don't understand how my neighbor found the water using the sticks, and i can't think of any technology that can prove or disprove that he was able to do it by divining. My comment that " I am ok with that" speaks to the fact that I am more inclined to just say that it may or may not have worked (everyone can choose their own view), and either way we got the well we needed. In the end its an individual decision to believe or not.
 
Last edited:
JCavSD said:
This is the core problem...unsupportable claims. I've worked for public water agencies since 1983...and if you want to base "truth" on personal experience then you'll probably do well to convert to my truth...it doesn't work. Taking a step back now...if anyone can offer some objective proof that would be refreshing.
Click to expand...

The proof is that in my usage of the method to detect buried utilities, it works. The results are repeatable. I have been successfuly repeating the results for more than thirty years. The workers, customers and subcontractors who see me do this witness the sucess of the method for locating buried utilities when we excavate and find them approximately where my method of detection indicates they are. You are welcome to come see it for yourself. Then you will learn that your "truth" isn't "truth" at all.

What you are saying is akin to a person saying that you cannot get fire by rubbing two sticks together. Having never done it or seen it done, they don't believe it can be done. But members here do it regularly using a variety of materials and methods. Their sucess varies with their experience and material selection, but they prove it can be done to those who witness it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top