drawbacks of a ground blade compared to a forged blade...

Bano119

Bano119

Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Messages
30
Lost a sale today of a custom knife when the customer realized that it wasnt forged. Any thoughts on drawbacks of a ground blade from flat stock? I asked the customer but he hasnt replied, so I thought I'd post...
 
There is no difference whatsoever. If you have two blades that are identical other than one is forged and the other is not the only difference will be found in the heat treat. If the heat treat is identical, the blades are identical.
May be you can educate your customer.

Fred
 
I like to forge but to be totally honest there are no drawbacks..Forging allows for more options but it dosnt make it a better blade..The heat treat is where its at..
 
Why are people willing to pay more for a custom knife over a factory made? They ascribe extra value to it because its a hand made and often one of a kind. Some people take that a step further and put more value on a forged knife.
 
A forged blade is easier to mess up thermally and I am a metal pounder, so there you have it. :D I forge because it is fun and it gives me more flexibility. Plus, you can't make damascus by stock removal. ;)
 
The steel you buy from your supplier is "forged" already, by huge rolling mills. There really isn't much you can do for it with a little 3 or 4 pound hammer after that as far as the atomic structure is concerned.
 
Following is his response; "the difference between forged and a ground blade has been going on for years and years.but a forged blade is a world apart.all blades have life,forging is the soul.just the cutting performance alone,edge holding ability,and balance its two different knives two different worlds"
Funny thing is he found my knife somewhere on the internet, then had a hard time getting my email. so he worked fairly hard to make the purchase.
Thanks for all of the replies, they support my thinking to the whole process. I do add patina and a vintage look by heating the blade pre-heat treat and hammer texturing. Its Aldo's 1084
 
He's rite to a certain degree. A forged blade can be slightly stronger and have slightly better performance. Notice I said CAN. It can also be screwed up easier and except for certain steels there will be hardly any noticeable differences. Certainly not with simple steels like 10 series steels unless maybe under laboratory conditions. As far as balance, it's easier to get proper distal taper by forging, but someone who know's what there doing grinding can achieve the same effect. A lot of stock removal knives don't have much if any distal taper and some tend to be thicker on the edge. Nothing to do with not being forged, just the way some are ground.

Only real draw back I can think of is that with forging your not limited to the original size and shape of stock. And most steel smashers learn more about the heat treating and thermal cycles than some stock removal only. Neither case is a limit though, you can get oversize stock and grind it out, and plenty of stock removal makers know as much or more about heat treat.

I have seen a good deal of performance increase from forging higher alloy steels like 52100, 5160, ect., but even then unless someone does a lot of side by side testing most won't see much if any difference.

Either method can make an excellent knife. Me I like to pound hot metal, it's fun. And as was said you can't make damascus without it being forged.
 
When someone starts talking about the "life" or "soul" of an inanimate object magically bringing it into a "world apart", there's no sense in trying to reason with them.
 
james terrio said:
When someone starts talking about the "life" or "soul" of an inanimate object magically bringing it into a "world apart", there's no sense in trying to reason with them.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. Sure, I understand about poetic license, but when poetry is used as an answer to a technical question, the answer translates into "I'm clueless, that's why!"
 
Good point on the poetic license, hadn't really thought about that.

I'll give an example, when I got my first M14 I went with a forged receiver vs. a cast receiver or one milled from barstock. Nothing whatsoever wrong with cast or milled, but I wanted a forged one because I wanted it. No other reason.
 
james terrio said:
When someone starts talking about the "life" or "soul" of an inanimate object magically bringing it into a "world apart", there's no sense in trying to reason with them.
Click to expand...

And there it is.

I know better than to stick my nose in the maker's area, but that was so succinct and accurate I couldn't help it.

Robert
 
james terrio said:
When someone starts talking about the "life" or "soul" of an inanimate object magically bringing it into a "world apart", there's no sense in trying to reason with them.
Click to expand...

It is difficult for some to come to understand that we have the best metal and heat treating methods ever in history currently and we no longer need the supernatural to explain why a blade is a good one.
 
Its on the list....I want to try san mai and cable damascus; day job work keeps getting in the way
 
As someone who forges most of his blades, I think you've just run into an example of, "Never underestimate the power of human ignorance." :D
 
I like forging because it gives many more options..Ive made plenty of stock removal knives, no drawbacks to them at all..But, you have to be able to forge to weld, and you have to be able to weld to make a 6 bar migration era sword :D
Some folks out there still believe that Katana's never had to be sharpened and could cut through any other sword without so much as nick..
 
Kentucky said:
I like forging because it gives many more options..Ive made plenty of stock removal knives, no drawbacks to them at all..But, you have to be able to forge to weld, and you have to be able to weld to make a 6 bar migration era sword :D
Some folks out there still believe that Katana's never had to be sharpened and could cut through any other sword without so much as nick..
Click to expand...

yep. there are a lot of well established makers, including some who have columns in certain popular knife magazines who have put a lot of hype out there to promote the forged blade as superior, just as there has been metallurgical hooey in popular culture since Theophilus (look it up) Steel that comes from a mill has been forged to a reduction far greater than you will be able to do (I used to look at this stuff under a microscope for a living when I worked in an aerospace metals plant) with your puny arm and hammer. Edge packing is baloney, you cannot increase the density of atoms in a solid volume, I forge steel because it gives me more control and flexibility with what I can make, and I can do Damascus, SanMai, historically accurate composite construction etc.

-Page
 
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