E&E Topic--ICE Agent killed

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Do a little more Google searching and you will find out some startling things about the problem that is being reported as a problem with our gun laws. It's total bullshit propaganda used to smear American Gun Ownership, period.
 
Do a little more Google searching and you will find out some startling things about the problem that is being reported as a problem with our gun laws. It's total bullshit propaganda used to smear American Gun Ownership, period.

come to think of it..that artical may have come from american hunter...lol
 
I'm really not feeling this thread here either. Too political for me for Esee- especially considering the strong connection the owners have with latin America.

Kissing off 2 countries...one extremely large and varied is a bit too much- especialy cause I need my 10 year anniversry on the Riveria Maya soon. ;) :)

I've lived in Colombia and traveled there a lot- it's a wonderful country and Colombians are great people- as is my wife who is Colombian.

Thrusting all on the supply side ain't gonna do it. We have an enourous apetite for cocaine and heroin here and our demand and billions of dollars are fuel on the fire...
 
Don't really know, don't care. The whole "America is filled with a black market for fully automatic weapons" thing is the kicker. It's bullshit. Any millionaire down there could get a boatload of select fire AK-47s at the drop of a hat from some other financially ailing third world country, that's where they get RPGs from. :rolleyes:

Yeah Don, that's one of the most laughable things I've seen! These guys can get a cargo box of AK's, RPK's, Dragonoff's, and RPG's from Europe or China for a fraction of what they would pay to get them in the states. All the ammo they could use also. Plus they're gonna get a bulk rate discount!
 
Mexican drug lords have millions of dollars and a fleet of airplanes to move their drugs.

World-wide Weapons traffic lords have millions of dollars and a fleet of airplanes to move their weapons.

As I've said before, the millionaire drug lord doesn't need to drive across the US border into Brownsville TX to see if he can get a full auto AK from "Mom-N-Pops Guns and Gold".

Sheesh....:rolleyes:
 
It is partly OUR fault, well our govts. They make billions off the drug tade, its job security for them, to NOT stop it from coming in, from dea all the way to local narc units. Keeps all them guys in a job.

The violence in mexico, spilling to here though, NOT our fault. They do have american f/a down there I would bet. Being as we sold mex. m16s, and I would bet dollars to donuts, maybe one or two of them ended up in cartel hands. But for the most part, would guess its coming from Russia/China, maybe some Middle East countries.
 
I'm really not feeling this thread here either. Too political for me for Esee- especially considering the strong connection the owners have with latin America.

It's not "political" because neither side of the political spectrum wants to do anything about it. It's social and global.

Being critical of Mexico is somehow seen as "bad" because the owners of ESEE have strong ties to Latin America? OK, so why discuss the threats posed in those areas at all then? All of that would be "negative," right? They also have a large problem with kidnapping, is speaking the truth a "bad" thing?

I just don't get that line of thought.

When speaking the truth becomes "bad," the logical conclusion to that argument is lying or lying by omission is "good." I don't believe in that.
 
Marijuana - as a test case - should be treated like alcohol is for adults. Let's see some tax revenue from it. I, myself, have no use for it. IMHO, hard drug users need to be hospitalized until sober. Post hospital, their future should be determined by judge and jury. Dealers get hard time. Murderers deserve the death penalty if found guilty.

That is as political as I feel.

----

My earlier suggestion would simplify the Mexican/U.S. Border and give us tremendous biometric data that would bolster the strength of our borders. If we know the majority of processed "refugees" are here to work - that would allow us to treat any non-standard border crossing as smuggling or worse.

And letting the bad guys know we'd use armed Predator drones should deter.
 
Marijuana - as a test case - should be treated like alcohol is for adults. Let's see some tax revenue from it. I, myself, have no use for it. IMHO, hard drug users need to be hospitalized until sober. Post hospital, their future should be determined by judge and jury. Dealers get hard time. Murderers deserve the death penalty if found guilty.

^^^This. I voted for the legalization of it. It was a very tough decision, because on one hand, I could see Ca slipping even more in a bad direction from all the dopers their would be. But on the other hand, I felt we should tax the living hell out of it, make it so it can only be sold in stores etc, and maybe it would help out this states financial problem. That and their would be no taxs' imposed on "working" class.
 
Amazing how a thread that started out as a decent thread to discuss E&E tactics and planning for E&E becomes a damn debate about drug legalization. I'm beginning to believe that the most training people do anymore is defending their political beliefs. Either put something beneficial towards the topic that Expatriated brought up or we will simply lock this thread. Dammit, quite wearing you freakin' hearts on your sleeves because everything yall are discussing has been deabted a million times by people smarter than us. So, in other words, none of you have made any great revelations here about these topic you are so hell bent on discussing.
 
Thrusting all on the supply side ain't gonna do it. We have an enourous apetite for cocaine and heroin here and our demand and billions of dollars are fuel on the fire...

Exactly. Without the US citizens enormous demand and use of cocaine and heroin it will not stop. Lots of the blame is on us.....our citizens who are using drugs. If nobody used drugs, there wouldn't be the huge flow of money into the drug kingpin's hands.
 
This is the latest info about the event:

2 ICE agents were giving training and were being escorted by Mexican military around. For some unknown reason, they left that convoy and started traveling by themselves. On a notoriously dangerous road. A checkpoint up front stopped everyone. Their escape route behind was blocked. Los Zetas members came up to the Surburban (with dip plates) and asked the driver to roll down the window. The ICE agents identified themselves as the driver rolled down the window and then they were shot at.

I don't want to badmouth the dead but I think we could all learn about a million things NOT to do from this. The overiding theme is this: as in all assassinations and targeted kidnappings, there was no doubt pre-planned surveillance and the trap being set. 2 unarmed guys have zero chance of escaping that. The only way to wind that is to catch them in the pre-planning phase and beat that. Or, to prevent yourself from ever being identified as a target in the first place, which is a whole other school of graymanness.

By the way, I don't know specifically in this circumstance but generally our agents are not allowed to carry firearms in Mexico. Our agents are able to carry in other parts of latin america. Mexico has been notoriously difficult. My suspicions are that it is OUR State Department that doesn't allow us to carry. Most countries that invite us to train will generally allow concealed carry and issue documents to say so. Our State Department, is generally the ones that tells US agents they are not allowed to carry overseas. They don't want an "incident" that makes their jobs harder.

Or so I'm told....:)
 
By the way, I don't know specifically in this circumstance but generally our agents are not allowed to carry firearms in Mexico. Our agents are able to carry in other parts of latin america. Mexico has been notoriously difficult. My suspicions are that it is OUR State Department that doesn't allow us to carry. Most countries that invite us to train will generally allow concealed carry and issue documents to say so. Our State Department, is generally the ones that tells US agents they are not allowed to carry overseas. They don't want an "incident" that makes their jobs harder.

Or so I'm told....:)

Well, not so true. Ambassadors generally defer to LEGATT section and the professionalism of those that work in those particular offices. In general, the pressure comes from the host nation. In this case, Mexico is very resistant to any influence by the US in particular and the usage or assertion of any legal authorities including the carrying of firearms.

Again, it is also not normal for countries who invite the US to train to carry firearms. There are a myriad of hoops to jump through in order for a TDY type person to carry a concealed firearm or weapon in a country for a 30-60-90 day trip for training.

The true 100% takeaway from this situation is unknown until all the facts are known, but it is easy to surmise that E&E scenarios for US Gov employees and civilians will almost always not include firearms or even a large knife but rather lots of situational awareness, route planning (area knowledge), coordinating with all travelers what you will do in a myriad of contingencies and a whole lot of luck.

H
 
The ignorance on this thread frightens me....So why is the violence on the Mexican side and not the American side? Because the US border protection is a joke. Helpless immigrants are slaughtered, but money-laden Zetas can walk into Arizona/Texas and buy full automatic guns on the black market. Thats the real problem. The US doesnt give a shit as what goes into Mexico, but any illegal alien is hunted down like a dog.

You have NO IDEA what you’re talking about. Please don’t feel free to post again on this topic until you do know what you’re talking about.

With that out of the way, the issue at hand now is response. US law enforcement agents appear to be targeted by the Zetas for death. The US response against them should be swift and utterly crushing. US LEO tore the cartels a new one when Enrique Camarena was killed in 1985 and since then they have left US LEO operating in Mexico alone. It’s time to remind the cartels how ruthless US LEO can be when unleashed.
 
Well, not so true. Ambassadors generally defer to LEGATT section and the professionalism of those that work in those particular offices. In general, the pressure comes from the host nation. In this case, Mexico is very resistant to any influence by the US in particular and the usage or assertion of any legal authorities including the carrying of firearms.

Again, it is also not normal for countries who invite the US to train to carry firearms. There are a myriad of hoops to jump through in order for a TDY type person to carry a concealed firearm or weapon in a country for a 30-60-90 day trip for training.

The true 100% takeaway from this situation is unknown until all the facts are known, but it is easy to surmise that E&E scenarios for US Gov employees and civilians will almost always not include firearms or even a large knife but rather lots of situational awareness, route planning (area knowledge), coordinating with all travelers what you will do in a myriad of contingencies and a whole lot of luck.

H

Mexico is indeed resistant to agents carrying weapons but there are MANY countries that I am personally aware of who's governments have absolutely NO problem with US agents carrying weapons. However, the local US Embassy will NOT allow the agent so the agent arrives unarmed. Colombia, for example, has a very open policy for agents, they are issued military documents and authorized to carry whenever and wherever. Depending on the current feeling within the Embassy however, they may or may not allow agents to carry, or may limit where or when the agents can carry. At one point, agents had to show up on Friday and turn their weapons in to the RSO and retrieve them the following Monday. Horsepucky.

It has been my personal experience that country weapons permits have been authorized at the highest local level of the foreign government and then the US Embassy does not allow the agent to carry (grant weapon country clearance) so the country issues a permit but the agent has no weapon to carry because the US won't let him bring it in.

Sometimes, even if the long standing policy is for agents to carry but you have a Deputy Chief of Mission who is personally anti-firearms and he puts an end to it overnight.

It is absolutely amazing how much US training and money is being spent in Mexico right now. We have every federal agency down there training. We are buying equipment and everything you can think of. All it would take would be the Embassy saying, "You want all of this? Our agents have to be able to defend themselves or everything's on hold." The next day, the Commander General Colonel Supreme Leader of the Armed Forces issues dozens of permits.

As far as the LEGATT is concerned, I can't speak personally to that. I've NEVER in any country I've EVER been in seen the LEGATT emerge from the safety of his/her bunker deep within the Embassy. YMMV but I've never seen a more risk averse group of people on the face of the earth.

Bottom line is if a federal agent can carry his gun in the most crime-free place in the US, how can an Ambassador or whomever say that it's not necessary for him to carry in Mexico of all places? But, if you're working in these countries without your government going to bat for you, all the more reason to be skilled in E&E and have a lot of plans independent of the US government. You can count more on the locals responding to help than you can the US.
 
You have NO IDEA what you’re talking about. Please don’t feel free to post again on this topic until you do know what you’re talking about.

With that out of the way, the issue at hand now is response. US law enforcement agents appear to be targeted by the Zetas for death. The US response against them should be swift and utterly crushing. US LEO tore the cartels a new one when Enrique Camarena was killed in 1985 and since then they have left US LEO operating in Mexico alone. It’s time to remind the cartels how ruthless US LEO can be when unleashed.

Quit feeding this shit or we will close this thread and much good future info will be lost.
 
Official: Gunmen knew ICE agents were law officers

By KATHERINE CORCORAN Associated Press
Posted: 02/16/2011 12:46:56 AM PST
Updated: 02/16/2011 04:51:31 PM PST

MEXICO CITY—Gunmen who shot up an SUV carrying two U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, killing one, knew they were attacking law enforcement officers, according to U.S. officials.

But details of the attack that emerged Wednesday indicate the two agents were not targeted ahead of time, rather stopped in the wrong place at the wrong time in a blue Suburban—a vehicle coveted by drug cartels.

Special Agent Jaime Zapata, 32, died and a second agent, Victor Avila, was wounded Tuesday when they were attacked after being stopped on a four-lane federal highway in northern Mexico.

They were returning to Mexico City from a meeting with other U.S. personnel in the state of San Luis Potosi, according to an ICE statement, which also said the Mexican government does not authorize U.S. law enforcement personnel to carry weapons.
Some reports said the two were stopped at a roadblock, while others said they were run off the road by other vehicles.

Texas Congressman Michael McCaul, who was briefed on the incident as chairman of the Homeland Security Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee, the gunmen opened fire after the agents indentified themselves as U.S. diplomats.

An U.S. law enforcement official told The Associated Press that the gunmen made comments before they fired indicating they knew who their targets were. The official was not authorized to discuss the case publicly.

"This was an intentional ambush against*two United States federal agents," McCaul said in a statement. "This tragic event is a game changer. The United States will not tolerate acts of violence against its citizens or law enforcement and I believe we must respond forcefully."

U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Attorney General Eric Holder announced a joint task force led by the FBI to help Mexico find the killers.

The State Department also expressed confidence in the ability of President Felipe Calderon's government to pursue the case.

"The Calderon government has stepped forward very courageously in recent years. They are, with the United States' help, taking aggressive action against the perpetrators of this kind of violence," State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley told reporters in Washington.

Zapata and Avila, both assigned to the ICE attache office in Mexico City, were attacked in an area where violence is on the rise from drug cartels fighting for territory. Avila was shot twice in the leg and has been discharged from the hospital, according to an ICE statement Wednesday.

Al Pena, a senior ICE official until he retired in December, said the agents arranged to meet Monterrey-based ICE agents midway between Mexico City and Monterrey to pick up equipment. They were returning south to Mexico City when attacked. He didn't know what equipment the ICE agents exchanged.

Pena, who was the Homeland Security attache in Mexico City in 2008 and 2009, said the ICE office in Mexico works on many issues—from training customs investigators to investigating drug and human trafficking, gun running and money laundering.

Avila "was working on many, many issues," said Pena, who knows him well. "There's not much specialization when you have an office that small."

San Luis Potosi Gov. Fernando Toranzo told W Radio in Mexico that he has seen a dramatic rise in organized crime in his state, which borders two northern states where the Gulf and Zetas cartels have waged bloody battles over territory.

"It's had a major impact that we hadn't see before," Toranzo said. "Right now we're waging a direct fight with all our state resources to restore order."

Since Calderon launched a crackdown on organized crime shortly after assuming the presidency in December 2006, almost 35,000 people have been killed in drug-related violence.

Zapata was on temporary assignment to Mexico from the Laredo, Texas office. He joined Homeland Security in 2006, served on the Human Smuggling and Trafficking Unit as well as the Border Enforcement Security Task Force. He also was a member of the U.S. Border Patrol in Yuma, Arizona.

Though Mexico is seeing record rates of violence, it is rare for U.S. officials to be attacked. The U.S. government, however, has become increasingly concerned about the safety of its employees in the country.

In March, a U.S. employee of the American consulate in Ciudad Juarez, her husband and a Mexican tied to the consulate were killed when drug gang members fired on their cars after they left a children's party in the city across from El Paso, Texas.

The U.S. State Department has taken several measures over the past year to protect consulate employees and their families. It has at times authorized the departure of relatives of U.S. government employees in northern Mexican cities.

In July, it temporarily closed the consulate in Ciudad Juarez after receiving unspecified threats. Earlier this month, the consulate in Guadalajara prohibited U.S. government officials from traveling after dark on the road to the airport because of cartel-related attacks in Mexico's second-largest city.

———
Associated Press writers Alicia A. Caldwell, Eileen Sullivan, Matthew Lee in Washington, Martha Mendoza in Santa Cruz, California, Elliot Spagat in San Diego and Will Weissert in El Paso, Texas, contributed to this report.
 
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This is the latest info about the event:

2 ICE agents were giving training and were being escorted by Mexican military around. For some unknown reason, they left that convoy and started traveling by themselves. On a notoriously dangerous road. A checkpoint up front stopped everyone. Their escape route behind was blocked. Los Zetas members came up to the Surburban (with dip plates) and asked the driver to roll down the window. The ICE agents identified themselves as the driver rolled down the window and then they were shot at.

Did they leave the convoy, or did the convoy leave them? Or were they purposely taken off course? Were the agents meeting with these men for some reason and a deal went bad? Who were the witnesses to this incident besides the wounded agent?

Just some things that came to mind when I read that.
 
The story I got was that they left the training early, before everyone else did and so they didn't leave with the main group and the convoy. But, you raise some good points.
 
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