u812 said:
How can that be a lie when the tip is, in fact, not broken? It would be different if he had asked "has the tip ever been broken?", but that isn't the case here. The answer to the posed question is entirely accurate.
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How can that be a lie when the tip is, in fact, not broken? It would be different if he had asked "has the tip ever been broken?", but that isn't the case here. The answer to the posed question is entirely accurate.
translation apart.
to me, if somebody say tip is not broke, TO ME it's the ORIGINAL tip.
so for you,koj, a knife that is said as "tip not broke" and arrived with about 1 cm less of blade , but pointy , is a correct way of answering or conduct ?
wasnt more correct answer, " yes, tip is not broke, but it's not the orginal one, i reprofiled the knife"
so - to say - if i buy a second hand Bang & Olufsen stereo system and ask " hey, the speakers are there ?" and the seller answer " yes, stereo is a whole " but then speakers are a cheap chinese substitute ?
all is okay, no ? since is used, everything is there, and speakers are there..
it's not my way of acting.
simply i dont get this as an honest way of conduct a deal. and -as i said- it's my fault:
i tend to think that others would act as i do...
to me, if somebody say tip is not broke, TO ME it's the ORIGINAL tip.
so for you,koj, a knife that is said as "tip not broke" and arrived with about 1 cm less of blade , but pointy , is a correct way of answering or conduct ?
wasnt more correct answer, " yes, tip is not broke, but it's not the orginal one, i reprofiled the knife"
so - to say - if i buy a second hand Bang & Olufsen stereo system and ask " hey, the speakers are there ?" and the seller answer " yes, stereo is a whole " but then speakers are a cheap chinese substitute ?
all is okay, no ? since is used, everything is there, and speakers are there..
it's not my way of acting.
simply i dont get this as an honest way of conduct a deal. and -as i said- it's my fault:
i tend to think that others would act as i do...
disorder said:
I'm not familiar with that brand, but in the context you're using it, I assume it's a higher end brand. If, in fact, I was buying said stereo system sight unseen from a complete stranger I wouldn't know from Adam (especially if it's a higher end system and I'm shelling out big bucks for it), I would indeed make absolutely positive, no shadow of a doubt, one hundred percent, pictures backing it up, that I was getting exactly what I thought I was getting.
There are just too many dishonest people out there. They're not looking out for your best interests, so you better make sure that you are.
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I think the guy knew that English was not Disorder's native language, so he used the meaningles phrase "blade is integer" in order to answer the question without actually answering it. The word "integer" of course has nothing to do with the blade being "intact" or having all it's "integrity", but it sounds kinda like it does. It's double-speak at it's worst, and in my opinion dishonest.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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The buyer is from Italy. His command of English is excellent but not perfect. "Integer" is close enough to good usage to confuse anyone, let alone a non-native English speaker, especially given the variations in usage found on the internet: dyslexia, poor education, txt msg style, carelessness, dialect.
Word games. The buyer might have caught the slippery way the words were used. An honest seller could have stated the condition absolutely clearly and gotten as much money for the knife.
We have regular members here who describe and photograph a knife for trade or sale in excruciating detail. I bought a knife that I was satisfied was mint, to look at -- which I do under magnification. But the seller discounted it as "used".
Integrity is doing what's right even if you can't get caught.
I think this was a case of a misunderstanding, because the seller doesn't know what he's dealing with and doesn't have our standards. That's a good reason why it's best to deal with fellow knife knuts.
Word games. The buyer might have caught the slippery way the words were used. An honest seller could have stated the condition absolutely clearly and gotten as much money for the knife.
We have regular members here who describe and photograph a knife for trade or sale in excruciating detail. I bought a knife that I was satisfied was mint, to look at -- which I do under magnification. But the seller discounted it as "used".
Integrity is doing what's right even if you can't get caught.
I think this was a case of a misunderstanding, because the seller doesn't know what he's dealing with and doesn't have our standards. That's a good reason why it's best to deal with fellow knife knuts.
i agree.
as i stated , for our standards , this conduct isnt correct.
for "normal" people ,at the question "tip is broken?" , the answer "no etc" is true. a tip is there, pity is not the original one.
i wrote to the seller two days ago, and till now i got no answer.
if him will admit that a little more info was due (i mean, in pic tip doesnt appear.. and at my question he doesnt felt the need to add that WASNT the original tip and 1 cm of blade was lost - i think you could agree that those are two - ehm- coincidencies )
even if in description he wrote "..used with lot of blade remaining " (in my knife slang this means the delica was heavily used and scratched and sharpened and the cuttin' profile is consumed a little.. NOT that the tip was lost and reprofiled for about 1 cm/0,394 inch )
anyway ,is not a big deal. this thread is from begininn - in my intentions- a way of speculating the conduction of a deal.
the lesson learned is that i cant apply the standards i'm used to here or in other knifenut forums and - generally speaking - i cant pretend the others actin as i would do ... but this one it's an attitude difficult to dismiss.
thanks everybody.
as i stated , for our standards , this conduct isnt correct.
for "normal" people ,at the question "tip is broken?" , the answer "no etc" is true. a tip is there, pity is not the original one.
i wrote to the seller two days ago, and till now i got no answer.
if him will admit that a little more info was due (i mean, in pic tip doesnt appear.. and at my question he doesnt felt the need to add that WASNT the original tip and 1 cm of blade was lost - i think you could agree that those are two - ehm- coincidencies )
even if in description he wrote "..used with lot of blade remaining " (in my knife slang this means the delica was heavily used and scratched and sharpened and the cuttin' profile is consumed a little.. NOT that the tip was lost and reprofiled for about 1 cm/0,394 inch )
anyway ,is not a big deal. this thread is from begininn - in my intentions- a way of speculating the conduction of a deal.
the lesson learned is that i cant apply the standards i'm used to here or in other knifenut forums and - generally speaking - i cant pretend the others actin as i would do ... but this one it's an attitude difficult to dismiss.
thanks everybody.
I went back to the beginning, looked at the pics and the description (
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...me=STRK:MEWA:it ).
I say the seller was trying to hide the condition of the knife and deserves to be culled from the herd, here and elsewhere. I won't buy from him.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...me=STRK:MEWA:it ).
I say the seller was trying to hide the condition of the knife and deserves to be culled from the herd, here and elsewhere. I won't buy from him.
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One of the meanings for integer is - whole, entire. I would assume that is what was meant.
Look, all I'm saying is that the seller's statements (while possibly not with the best motives behind them) are entirely factual and correct. The seller's EXACT STATEMENTS are indeed truthful. There has been much conjecture about people's interpretations of what the seller said...I think he meant this...I think he was thinking that... This is all assumption, and we all know what happens when we assume...
Koj, i hope you're joking..
nobody speaks literally, but with the common sense..
so what Sifu1a wrote is what any human being interested in knives or not would think -and the seller IS interested in knives ,from his other auctions .btw, he didnt respond to my email of friday -
reading "tip is not broken" ..and exactly that the #@##!! tip wasnt/isnt broken and that it is the ORIGINAL tip.
period.. anyway, you could be an attorney at law or something, wich such a taste for sophism
take care everybody, i'm not angry anymore or quite..
nobody speaks literally, but with the common sense..
so what Sifu1a wrote is what any human being interested in knives or not would think -and the seller IS interested in knives ,from his other auctions .btw, he didnt respond to my email of friday -
reading "tip is not broken" ..and exactly that the #@##!! tip wasnt/isnt broken and that it is the ORIGINAL tip.
period.. anyway, you could be an attorney at law or something, wich such a taste for sophism
take care everybody, i'm not angry anymore or quite..
I'm not angry either...hope nobody thinks that...
Anyways, I guess we just agree to disagree about the literal thing then. If I tell a person one thing, and they choose to assume that I mean something else, they're the one making a mistake and risking being disappointed or whatever because they thought I meant something that I did not. This is especially true in any sort of financial dealings. Both parties should make sure they know exactly what they're getting into, and if there is any question at all, they should exhaust all avenues of questioning before moving forward. This is akin to always "reading the fine print".
Regardless, it's too bad your transaction ended the way it did. Sorry you didn't get what you were expecting.
Anyways, I guess we just agree to disagree about the literal thing then. If I tell a person one thing, and they choose to assume that I mean something else, they're the one making a mistake and risking being disappointed or whatever because they thought I meant something that I did not. This is especially true in any sort of financial dealings. Both parties should make sure they know exactly what they're getting into, and if there is any question at all, they should exhaust all avenues of questioning before moving forward. This is akin to always "reading the fine print".
Regardless, it's too bad your transaction ended the way it did. Sorry you didn't get what you were expecting.
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Keith Montgomery said:
I didn't know that, I just thought it referred to the mathematical term. So I did a little checking and found that some synonyms for the words "intact" and "complete" include imperforate, maiden, undeflowered, choate, plenary, and unitary. Some synonyms for "integer" are jackpot, gross, and whole enchilada.
I provide this info to my fellow forumites so they can be prepared if they ever want to bid on another choate knife blade from this "straight talking" seller.
koj11 said:
Misleading words,leaving important information out of description,playing word games with meanings etc.These are all things that are anything but being truthful and factual.The picture purposely leaves tip out.This guy that sold the knife is a total scumbag and deserves no defense or credit.He now in addition to that digusting sales tactic,ignores this gentlemans e-mail.This guy should not only get a negative,but he should be booted from E-bay.
No way. If I'm looking to buy a product of any sort, and I don't have a complete picture, I think there might be a problem, I hear a word I don't understand, I can't get all the info I need, the the only one I have to blame for shelling out my hard earned money anyways is myself. There's no way I would have bought that knife without seeing another picture that showed the tip as well as the rest of the knife, and I have a suspicion that that would be true of most people who responded to this thread.
There needs to come a time when people stop trying to blame others for their own lack of judgement. I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but sometimes you don't have anyone to blame for getting taken but yourself. It's time to stop whining. It's time to stop regurgitating excuses like I thought this...I think he meant that...he should have told me this...he didn't elaborate fully and completely enough for me....blah blah blah...well you know what? Tough beans. Complaining now after the fact about the condition of the knife falls right in line with the complaint in the initial post about the shipping cost. Guess what? If the shipping charge was too much, you shouldn't have paid it in the first place. Don't pay it and then turn around after the fact and complain about it. Nobody had a gun to the buyer's head forcing them to buy this inadequate product. If you buy a used product without all the necessary information and then find you didn't get what you wanted, you have only yourself to blame.
Take some responsibility for your own actions for God's sake. This whole blame game is childish and irresponsible.
There needs to come a time when people stop trying to blame others for their own lack of judgement. I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but sometimes you don't have anyone to blame for getting taken but yourself. It's time to stop whining. It's time to stop regurgitating excuses like I thought this...I think he meant that...he should have told me this...he didn't elaborate fully and completely enough for me....blah blah blah...well you know what? Tough beans. Complaining now after the fact about the condition of the knife falls right in line with the complaint in the initial post about the shipping cost. Guess what? If the shipping charge was too much, you shouldn't have paid it in the first place. Don't pay it and then turn around after the fact and complain about it. Nobody had a gun to the buyer's head forcing them to buy this inadequate product. If you buy a used product without all the necessary information and then find you didn't get what you wanted, you have only yourself to blame.
Take some responsibility for your own actions for God's sake. This whole blame game is childish and irresponsible.
Koj. i got enuf .
if you read all my whole posts, i clearly stated that error was mine.
i only dared to ask - sorry if this disturb you so much - whta others think of this conduct.
about shipping post, my dear, 14 usd it's ok for me ,so i payed. BUT when i received it i saw on evelope 4.80.
now, my lawyer-defendant of poor sellers, tell me HOW could imagine that he asked money for an expensive shipping rate (again - was Ok to me) and THEN he used the cheapest ?
i 'm not able to read the future.
and , as stated, i've found your last post offensive ,and got enuf af the whole (integer?) story.
repeat: my error. i ONLY asked to others. i dont whine. never.
my best regards
if you read all my whole posts, i clearly stated that error was mine.
i only dared to ask - sorry if this disturb you so much - whta others think of this conduct.
about shipping post, my dear, 14 usd it's ok for me ,so i payed. BUT when i received it i saw on evelope 4.80.
now, my lawyer-defendant of poor sellers, tell me HOW could imagine that he asked money for an expensive shipping rate (again - was Ok to me) and THEN he used the cheapest ?
i 'm not able to read the future.
and , as stated, i've found your last post offensive ,and got enuf af the whole (integer?) story.
repeat: my error. i ONLY asked to others. i dont whine. never.
my best regards
Sorry if this disturb you so much?
My dear?
Lawyer-defendant of poor sellers? (that's my favorite)
Good lord. I'm sorry I ever gave my opinion in the first place. I should have taken my own advice and not made an assumption. I assumed I could voice my thoughts on the issue without drawing sarcasm. I assumed the discussion could be had logically and factually without people getting all bent out of shape.
I assumed wrong.
My dear?
Lawyer-defendant of poor sellers? (that's my favorite)
Good lord. I'm sorry I ever gave my opinion in the first place. I should have taken my own advice and not made an assumption. I assumed I could voice my thoughts on the issue without drawing sarcasm. I assumed the discussion could be had logically and factually without people getting all bent out of shape.
I assumed wrong.
koj11 said:
hey, ebay is rife with that sort of thing, and a lot of the sellers do not post a picture of the actual knife they are selling.
there are lots of swindlers on there - you ought to be able to remember someone selling an empty box that used to contain an x-box shortly before christmas the year they came out.
sure, if you read every word in the lengthy description, you would have read that it was an empty box,,,but it was obviously NOT an up front auction, and the seller actually did get a lot of money for it.
it's NOT like buying knives in this forum, where you know that at least the regulars are going to describe exactly what they are selling.