Economy, Good for knifemakers?

Karl B. Andersen said:
That statement saddens me to no end.
How can something that is such a labor of love for me, as well as many, many other makers, turn into something "ugly" down the road?
Because someone made it so, that's how.
These knives, that are at the heart of this discussion, as well as so many others, are created with love and care and attention and passion and many times, literally, with blood on the floor.
To have them end up as one of the "ugliest aspects of collecting" is to do nothing short of a disservice to them and the people who make them.
Stop whinin' and bickering.
Have fun.
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Well Said !!!
 
Karl B. Andersen said:
That statement saddens me to no end.
How can something that is such a labor of love for me, as well as many, many other makers, turn into something "ugly" down the road?
Because someone made it so, that's how.
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Karl, with all due respect....

I personally have witnessed on more than one occasion, makers go at each other for construction methods, choice of steel and heat treat, and more political infighting within large knife organizations than agreement...not my place to try and get between makers fighting like dogs, even though I wish that they wouldn't do it in front of me.:o

This is one of the places that we come to share the good and the bad.....sorry that it saddens you, but you are not going to stop it. I prefer that some of the exchanges not be public, but they are....and it happens. Competition amongst collectors happens....it is a genetic predisposition...and it can get ugly.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Karl, that was very well said! Think some of these guys had been into the liquor cabinet
last night :)

Cliff Parker, welcome to Blade Forums! It is really good to have ya here!
 
Kohai999 said:
Karl, with all due respect....

I personally have witnessed on more than one occasion, makers go at each other for construction methods, choice of steel and heat treat, and more political infighting within large knife organizations than agreement...not my place to try and get between makers fighting like dogs, even though I wish that they wouldn't do it in front of me.:o

This is one of the places that we come to share the good and the bad.....sorry that it saddens you, but you are not going to stop it. I prefer that some of the exchanges not be public, but they are....and it happens. Competition amongst collectors happens....it is a genetic predisposition...and it can get ugly.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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STeven - since you've raised this twice, I'll address it to you. I understand the competitive nature of collecting, but speaking for myself, competition has nothing to do with "this". I am not in competition with Kevin or any other collector for anything, least of all knives. Whether the economy is booming or busting, there will always be more knives out there that I want than I can possbly afford. Bottom line: I am spoiled for choice. There's no need for me to elbow someone out of the way, because there's plenty to go around.

When I tend to speak up is when someone suggests that their way of doing things is the ONLY way, or clearly the BEST way and makes repeated categorical pronouncements regarding same. One thing that many years of collecting and relatively few of making have taught me is that there are many valid approaches to take in either field. No one person has exclusive possession of "the rigth way".

So when somone hops up on their soapbox to tell me and others:

1) I shouldn't buy knives from newer makers;
2) I can't call two knives a matched set and I am insulting other makers by doing so;
3) I have "too many knives on order";
4) I can't call a particular knife a "bowie"
5) It's "better" to collect knives from a single or very few makers as opposed to many....

....and on and on - I am not likely to sit quietly and swallow same. I will say I disagree and I will say way. I will point out that while that approach may work for them, it is not a some rule of universal application. I will assert that there is another - valid - way of looking at things. Some find the fact that I have the temerity to disagree with them inherently insulting - and that is too damn bad. But I can tell you that dealing with certain types who very much wish to put me in MY place is nothing particularly new. Not at all.

Lost somewhere in being cast as someone who is "insulting" and "picking" on Kevin Jones is the fact that I have repeatedly and publicly credited him for the excellent work he has done with the CKCA - including as recently as this very thread. But that doesn't mean that I am willing to meekly accept his word as law and quietly adopt his view of things when they don't accord with my own.

Now - I'm not saying that I am perfect or without blame or incapable of making some unneccesarilly pointed comments. When I am shoved, it is my nature to shove back, even where prudence suggests a better course is to simply ignore it.

But what I haven't done is to seek to publicly (or privately) attack the personal integrity of any of my fellow forumites - as Kevin has chosen to do by repeatedly casting me as someone who "twists the truth" - by profession, no less. I have pointed out to him in the past that I find such an insinuation deeply insulting - on both a personal and professional level - yet he persists. I find that utterly pathetic - particularly from someone who is, in the same breath, attemtpting to cast himself as the poor victim of forum bullying.

So I hope that provides some clarification for you. While I certainly admit to having a competitive nature (most of us do, at some level) I am not competing with you, Kevin, Anthony, Peter - or anyone here for anything. I figured out a loooong time ago that there really is no point to that.

Karl mentioned the importance of the knives, but I have to say that after more than a quarter century being involved in the custom knife field, the knives mean very little to me compared to the people. If it weren't for the very good people in this field - makers, collectors, dealers, photographers, leather workers, show organizers - and on and on - I wouldn't still be in this game. And were in not for the fact that the good people vastly outnumber the ones who - for whatever reason - simply find my willingness to speak out - if not my very existence - utterly anathema, well, I would definitely pack in the whole deal.

While I don't engage in lies and deceit as a profession, I do essentially engage in conflict - for much higher stakes than the subject matter of BF threads. I get plenty of it from 9-5, I sure don't seek it out in other areas of my life.

Roger
 
Envy is one of the seven deadly sins. But, I do not think it is envy driving these two people. I think that they simply do not like each other and that neither has the self control to not respond. Frankly, I am ashamed of both of you and if your fathers knew of your behavior they would also be ashamed. You are grown men, act like it. You are driving people out of a thread that might be of benifit.
 
RogerP said:
STeven - since you've raised this twice, I'll address it to you. I understand the competitive nature of collecting, but speaking for myself, competition has nothing to do with "this". I am not in competition with Kevin or any other collector for anything, least of all knives. Whether the economy is booming or busting, there will always be more knives out there that I want than I can possbly afford. Bottom line: I am spoiled for choice. There's no need for me to elbow someone out of the way, because there's plenty to go around.

When I tend to speak up is when someone suggests that their way of doing things is the ONLY way, or clearly the BEST way and makes repeated categorical pronouncements regarding same. One thing that many years of collecting and relatively few of making have taught me is that there are many valid approaches to take in either field. No one person has exclusive possession of "the right way".

While I don't engage in lies and deceit as a profession, I do essentially engage in conflict - for much higher stakes than the subject matter of BF threads. I get plenty of it from 9-5, I sure don't seek it out in other areas of my life.

Roger
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I thank you for the measured response, my brother!:thumbup:

We have spoken about these issues publicly and privately.....I certainly don't expect you to choke back bile when you feel it rising up, but have encouraged you and Kevin to communicate privately when issues do flare up, and will continue to do so....as I see a core of mutual respect and ability to do good work with each other, even if you have different approaches....and Kevin certainly understands that the "lawyer digs" are not cool, which I don't think he has revisited since last year.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
As far as the economy, here is a post I wrote on another forum.

I believe this with all my heart. Where will handmade knives fit in to this scenario?

Advice for the new century
Hoard cash, water and ammunition. Not necessarily in that order. Our way of life is rapidly changing. Urban areas will be first to decline. Petty street crime will consistently evolve into harder crime which will evolve into mayhem.

People will start by taking your things without permission. Since government is quickly running out of money to pay its employees (including law enforcement) don't expect 911 to work when you need it...It doesn't work very well now. As prisons lose their funding this year expect thousand of criminals to be placed back into society at alarming rates. As Mexico collapses, be prepared for an onslaught of hungry, semi-lawless, illegal immigrants who want 1/100th of what you have and are willing to do anything to get it.

Start taking care of yourself. Plan on keeping yourself and your family safe. Plan with your neighbors how to be alert for the good of your neighborhood. Put half as much thought in to your personal security as you do on your facebook little green patch. If you can't stomach owning a gun, buy a big dog. If you don't like dogs, well, you are screwed.

In a crisis, credit cards, ipods or a snappy new outfit are all worthless. Gasoline, flour, batteries, and an extra propane tank are however, nice to have. A generator can be priceless. Expect rolling blackouts as the antiquated power grid collapses in areas where local utilities become insolvent. Determine how long you could comfortably survive without power, water, or access to gasoline. 1 Week? 1 Month? Whats your plan?

Once again, have a plan. Be your own FEMA. Rely on no one to protect you because they won't. Do it for your family. Do it for yourself.
 
So...are you saying the shit's gonna hit the fan?:D
Sorry, I shouldn't joke. But really, all that sci fi growing up looks closer and closer to reality. Too bad the sci fi I grew up with was so apocalyptic:(

Definitely a good time to reconsider posting photos of all the nice stuff you own. That is very good advice.
 
I truly believe its going to get much worse before it gets better.

What does that mean for many knifemakers? Attrition.

What does that mean for collectors with "means"? Great deals.

What does that mean for the average person? They won't have much time to worry about knives.
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
I truly believe its going to get much worse before it gets better.

What does that mean for many knifemakers? Attrition.

What does that mean for collectors with "means"? Great deals.

What does that mean for the average person? They won't have much time to worry about knives.
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You are right, of course. I lost a good customer because I said that the new president was young and inexperinced. The problem is not his youth, it can now be seen that he intends to destroy capitalism in this country, and the middle class along with it. He an the leaders of both the house and the senate will do as much damage in the next two years as they can and we can only pray that we can get enough votes to replace enough seats in both houses to stop the process. If the average knife person does not react to new knife designs at great prices over the next two years, I may not be here to see it.

Your earlier statement was right on!
 
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but has capitalism destroyed itself? I don't know if it's fair to blame the current admin for something which has been brewing its own demise for so long.
 
A.G. Russell wrote:

Envy is one of the seven deadly sins. But, I do not think it is envy driving these two people. I think that they simply do not like each other and that neither has the self control to not respond. Frankly, I am ashamed of both of you and if your fathers knew of your behavior they would also be ashamed. You are grown men, act like it. You are driving people out of a thread that might be of benifit.
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I agree with this statement 100%

He also wrote:

You are right, of course. I lost a good customer because I said that the new president was young and inexperinced. The problem is not his youth, it can now be seen that he intends to destroy capitalism in this country, and the middle class along with it. He an the leaders of both the house and the senate will do as much damage in the next two years as they can and we can only pray that we can get enough votes to replace enough seats in both houses to stop the process. If the average knife person does not react to new knife designs at great prices over the next two years, I may not be here to see it.
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A.G.

That statement is a great way to piss off potential customers.

The crisis has nothing to do with the current president. It was caused by the lack of leadership of the last 8 years. They had the lobbyists write their own rules. They cut back on regulating all of the Wall Street fat cats who are the reason that the economy has failed. These people stole money because they knew that no one was watching them. This is what is hurting capitalism. The current leadership was elected fix problems that they did not create. It took 8 years of bad leadership to wreck the economy, it will take awhile to fix it.

Jim Treacy
 
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The current leadership was elected fix problems that they did not create.
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This statement is patently false. All of our elected representatives are responsible for this mess, not just the Republicans.

ps-Its capitAlism.
 
The crisis has nothing to do with the current president. It was caused by the lack of leadership of the last 8 years. They had the lobbyists write their own rules. They cut back on regulating all of the Wall Street fat cats who are the reason that the economy has failed. These people stole money because they knew that no one was watching them. This is what is hurting capitolism. The current leadership was elected fix problems that they did not create. It took 8 years of bad leadership to wreck the economy, it will take awhile to fix it.

Jim Treacy
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Jim, I couldn't agree more.:thumbup: Edit: the same goes for a couple of other (European) countries and their leaders as well.

Marcel
 
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I'm guessing lots of people who deal directly and indirectly with the military industrial complex got fat over all those years of reckless warring and spending. Those folks are definitely going to have to change their modus operandi, now that the Iraq war has been called off.

I'm going to put this out there; The economy, or what is to become of it, is not going to be 'good' for much of anybody.

Opportunists come in all forms, and I expect that the 'new' economy will be 'good' only for them. There are going to be guys making knives who will see opportunities where others don't, and they will be well served by their saavy alone, in this changing world. In fact there will be some who might not be 'successful' otherwise.

There's something to be said for the 'overcoming of adversity' that we admire previous generations for. Looks like we're going to have a go at it too. Challenging times can bring out the best in people.

Tighten up yer belts! Just make sure to leave enough room for a knife to hang off it:D
 
A. G. Russell said:
You are right, of course. I lost a good customer because I said that the new president was young and inexperinced. The problem is not his youth, it can now be seen that he intends to destroy capitalism in this country, and the middle class along with it. He an the leaders of both the house and the senate will do as much damage in the next two years as they can and we can only pray that we can get enough votes to replace enough seats in both houses to stop the process. If the average knife person does not react to new knife designs at great prices over the next two years, I may not be here to see it.

Your earlier statement was right on!
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please dont bring that chicken shit here. :thumbdn:
 
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