Edd Harbin

...I'm a little slow, would you please clarify your last post?

I didn't see it as a matter of dollars involved; i.e., if I wanted to trade you a $300 RMK for a $200 BJK, and I was happy with the deal, or vice/versa, that would be the end of the deal...when we both agreed that it was a done deal...agreed?

I'm a little confused with your post. Is it, in your opinion, 'all about money'?

IMNSHO, it has very little to do with money. On the other hand, it has everything to do with our enjoyment of knives, and the joy of 'fair trading'...that's my read anyway.

Please clarify your position.

Thanks,

Mel
 
In my opinion, what this whole mess seems to be based on is that one of the people involved in this deal feels that the other misrepresented the knife that he was trading. For that reason he is unhappy with the trade. Just because it was unintentional does not mean that it should be ignored.

What has been stated here over and over is that both parties should be happy with the trade before it is considered a done deal. If one party is honestly unhappy with the knife that he got then the other should be willing to go back to square one with no hard feelings.

Maybe I am looking at this all wrong. If someone were to contact me after a trade and state that he was unhappy with the knife I had sent, I would say send it back and yours will be on it's way tomorrow. I would take his word that it was because he was unhappy with the knife and not accuse him of just having a change of mind. It is my belief that until it can be proven otherwise that a persons word is his bond. That is why I do not understand why there are so many people that once they have what they are after seem not to care if the other person is unhappy or not.

My good name on this forum is worth a lot to me, and I would not want to lose that good name for any amount, let alone over a deal for a $170.00 knife. This all seems absolutely pathetic to me.
 
It has nothing to do with money. It was about respect and clear representation of the items in question. I don't do the "turn the other cheek" thing very well. I'm sure that if I had not presented the situation clearly, some of the well-respected members here would have let me know it in no uncertain terms. I appreciate the understanding and knowledgable responses. I want to state for the record that if the knife was "as advertised" this post wouldn't be here. I have "traded down" to less expensive knives before because I wanted them, not to make a profit. I would like to think we are here for the common enjoyment of the hobby, not to get a leg over on each other at any cost. I will still deal with the honest people here if I get the chance. It's a fun hobby and that's what it's about. This is my last input on this issue. KWM, rdangerer, danbo, Cougar (it's the LAW) and the rest have made it clear to me that this was shady business. I will take my friend's advice and let it go as a lesson learned. Thanks again. Sincerely,
Leo Gilbert
 
This same scenario gets played out here just about every week. The STANDARD has always been and must remain that:

A DEAL IS NOT A DEAL UNTIL BOTH PARTIES ARE HAPPY

This is very simple:( :confused:
 
I had always thought it went without saying that both parties need to be happy before a trade is complete, and frankly, I have no desire to trade with anyone who thinks otherwise.

If I trade with someone and they are not happy with what I sent, I'll trade back or refund money, and never mind the reason....sure, sometimes it can be irritating or disappointing, but overall I feel good doing the right thing.

It's really pretty simple..I have to look at myself in the mirror every morning, and it's already tough enough, so I do whatever I can to ease the burden on myself :D
 
I hate to be in a hurry to ban, but it doesn't look like there's going to be any alternative this time. I guess I'll wait another day.
 
Take a look at this picture. Can't see any pitting in that....

I got a scanner recently for $50 that makes scans so good you have to hold a magnifying glass to the monitor to appreciate how fine the detail is. A worthwhile investment....

Edd Harbin contacted me in email -- he's going to do the right thing. And I suggested he might want to invest in a new scanner. I wonder how many members are sending blurry pictures like that because they don't know how cheap a good scanner is now.
 
Originally posted by Cougar Allen
The thread is Ivan campos Vespa up for trade .....

It always disturbs me to see the law referred to by such phrases as "the etiquette here on the forums" but I suppose people will keep on doing it. However many times people call it things like "the etiquette" and "the custom" and things like that, it's still the law....
Click to expand...

Originally posted by Cougar Allen
I hate to be in a hurry to ban, but it doesn't look like there's going to be any alternative this time. I guess I'll wait another day.
Click to expand...


I'm confused....in prior episodes of unpleasentness like this it has been suggested that BF.com establish some "ground rules" for the trading forums and keep them posted at the top. To my knowledge this has never been done.

The "general custom" around here is to allow an inspection period and I agree with that. Hopefully everyone will be happy and keep "knife swapping" fun. I have only done a few deals and this was usually stipulated in the communications. Had a little trouble with one trade going overseas (damage in transit) but keeping an open line of communication helped resolve everything to everyones satisfaction. The key thing is to be reasonable and considerate of others. I have always swapped knives for fun, not to make a living!!!! I would assume others are doing the same!!! :rolleyes:

What suprises me here is that Couger posts that it is "the law" and speaks of banning. I'm all for posting some "laws" here but to speak of banning for infractions of unposted rules seems extreme.

Just post the law in plain sight!

Otherwise it is just "etiquette" and "custom" and there are bound to be misunderstandings. I realize having some "rules" won't solve everything and there will still be those who will try to cheat and lie, but it will help eliminate many understandings and create a "firm" common ground to work from.....
 
I don't understand why people keep asking that. We don't have a warning screen to tell everybody Bladeforums would disapprove if you promise to send a member a knife and send him a bomb instead. We don't have any posted policy about sending anthrax spores to Bladeforums members. Why do we need to make an announcement about anything so basic? I don't know, maybe we do need to post rules. Maybe we should post a policy in all caps saying WE EXPECT TRANSACTIONS ON BLADEFORUMS TO BE LEGAL, ETHICAL, AND NONLETHAL. MEMBERS WHO DEFRAUD, CHEAT, OR MURDER BLADEFORUMS MEMBERS ARE SUBJECT TO BANNING. Would that satisfy everybody? How much detail do you want? Do you need to be told what the word "new" means? How about what a "scratch" is? Does it have to be explained in writing that "new in box" means you're selling the box along with the knife?

Well, once again, if the members want to agree on a statement about trading ethics or guidelines or whatever you want to call it, I'll glue it to the top of the forum. Once again, I don't think it's compatible with my role to write such a statement myself -- I'm just a moderator, not a judge or a legislator.
 
LAG3 is getting his knife back . He can also keep the Vespa . I don't want it back , and will refuse it if it comes back . This is a deal . FAIR or RIGHT doesn't enter into my decision . From now on , a knife will not only be exactly what I describe it to be , but also EVERTHING the other person WISHES it to be . If that isn't enough then I'll offer penance for the confusion .
 
I said I was done, but feel obligated to reply to Edd. Anyone following this knows I was not trying to get the knife back. I will respect your wishes and leave it alone. For the record, I would return the Vespa if you would accept it.

Leo Gilbert
 
I am sending back the Commander ...What you wanted . And what I want.
You are getting the Vespa .........What you wanted .

If LAG3 want's to discouse it further , contact me . I'll offer you whatever will make you HAPPY . That is what everyone wants , so be it .
 
I agree that to make things plain to members about how things work in the Exchange forums, rules should be posted. There have been to many problems of late.

The first and foremost rule should be the it is not a deal until both parties involved in a transaction say it is a deal.

An inspection period must also be established. My recommendation would be 48 hours. A week is nice, but more than neccessary in my opinion.

It is great to see that Edd has changed his mind about how he was going to handle this. It shows me that he figures his good name is worth something.
 
Edd, what you have done shows real class. You have shown yourself to be a man of honor and one that I would have no second thoughts about dealing with. Good on ya.
 
All I am doing is standing by my deals . If I agree to a deal , then it's a deal . What others do is their decision . From now on I'll offer a review period , I'll even offer to send my knife for inspection first . Return postage will be included and can be used for return of my knife or completion of deal .
 
A lot of extraneous stuff gets posted in these threads, and maybe that confuses some people. I'll boil this one down for you:

Lag3 says when the Vespa arrived he discovered the blade was pitted; it wasn't what he thought he was trading for.

Lag3 said a lot of other stuff too and Edd Harbin said a lot of stuff and a bunch of other people came in and said stuff and maybe all that stuff distracted some people....

Now we could argue about how that happened ... whether Edd is getting farsighted with age and can't see pits you could scuba dive in any more, whether Lag3 has eyes like a microscope and can see pits no one else can see, whether Edd didn't describe the condition very well or Lag3 didn't understand Edd's description very well -- but it doesn't matter.

We could argue about whether one or the other might be slanting his description of what he sees or might even be lying outright -- but there's no evidence for that.

That's what happens when you deal through the mail, trading knives sight unseen. Sometimes it doesn't work out and you lose some time and the cost of shipping. You can do your best to describe what you're trading and make sure you describe every tiny scratch and pit, you can send good pictures so the guy you're trading with can see every tiny scratch and pit for himself and hope for the best, or you can throw a tantrum and decide never to trade on the net again. Whatever....
 
It is obvious from this thread why there needs to be a set of guidelines around here.

Here are two people who traded with what seemed to be good intentions and it turned bad.

One fellow advertises a knife by his own admission as "NIB" when it clearly was not to most folks. The other fellow traded a knife whose condition/workmanship was misunderstood by the other party and apparently would not have made the deal if he had more info. Mr. Harbinn's "sin" was not taking it back despite the fact there was no agreement to do so. While I would want the other party satisfied in any deal I did, I can see Ed's point too....there seems to be a lot of buyers remourse going on around here...why should he have to pay for that.

Cougar, you are right you can't legislate away stupidity or prevent people from commiting outright fraud. That was not the case here. I don't think these guys set out to screw each other. There will always be "sharp" traders who try to maximize their end of the bargain but these guys were apparently operating with different preconceived notions of what consumates a deal around here. Things got ugly because of that.

With a few rare exceptions of outright fraud, most of the crap posted around here is due to misunderstandings, ignorance, being inconsiderate, and general lameness.

Some simple guidelines would help limit misunderstandings between otherwise "good guys". It would not help with the criminal, lame, biowarfare, or rude bits but might help avoid stuff like this...as entertaining as it may be to those of us in the peanut gallery.

And yes I think the ownership or the vastly overpaid moderators should do this...or find some other fool to do it
 
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