Edge Hits Back Spring on Boker Stockman Knife Shaped Object

Wowbagger

Wowbagger

Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
6,975
OK I have to get this out of the way first.
Alternate titles for this thread :
  • You knew it would all end in tears.
  • Beauty is only scales deep.
  • Why the _____ would I ever want to use any thing but my Para 2 M4
  • Glad I didn’t spend any time dying this knife. (at least it finally came the color I wanted after multiple orders)
  • Knife Shaped Object (ok I used that one but feel like saying it again)
  • Does your fully custom large Stockman do this ! ?
  • I’m Deeeeeepressed.

I could go on and on . . . you have no idea the restraint I am calling to bear to stop listing tittles and get on with this . . . this . . . rant ? . . . is that what I am doing ?

More like think of it as an advertisement for any of the decent slip joint knife makers in the world. I don’t have a custom but I think if I ever buy another slip joint I may just be knocking on someones web site who makes custom knives.

. . . . here is “The Thing “ :

After sharpening, to near mirror and definitely hair whittling, my brand new Boker Large Stockman in smooth deep red bone (the handle scales were the sole reason I bought this knife) I carried it for a day or two and noticed at one section of the edge it was dead dull and reflecting tons of light. Whack it on a another hardened steel object dull.

= Clue number one

Though I used the Edge Pro to do the first sharpening I took up my very small hand held Norton water stones and fixed the banged up area starting with a tiny serrated steel. Ok shave sharp but steeper angle . . . good to go for now.

One day at work where I only cut open some plastic bags and cut one soft thin rubber tube.

Got home and looked and every bit as bad and in the same exact place. Nope I am not hitting another blade there is a lot of gap.
IMG_4929.jpg
Today I am off and while eating breakfast I couldn’t wait to fix the edge right with the Edge Pro.
Fixed it.
Consistent bevels and hair whittling again.

Now lets back up a bit. When this first happened I suspected that the blade was hitting a spring inside the knife. To verify that it was or wasn’t I folded a strip of paper and closed the knife on it. I could easily slide the strip the length of the blade and there as no point where it was pinched . . . I pressed in very hard against the blade to drive it further into the knife frame in an effort to pinch the paper; I still had clearance.


IMG_4952.JPG
IMG_4951.JPG IMG_4953.JPG


All I could figure was when I was closing the knife I was pressing the blade side ways enough to glance off the blade next to it. Yeah . . . that must be it. But as I started looking very close at the way the knife closed and closing it slowly I saw that the banged area was only partially where the smaller blade could contact the large, the rest of the ding was out past the length of the short blade.
%^&^&%^*$^**^&*%$%^! !@ ! ! !

So back to today right after I sharpened the blade and had not closed the knife yet.
Here is what I did next :

  • Closed the knife very slowly with my magnifier visor on watching for gremlins to jump out with hammers and attack the edge. Nothing; I opened the knife and the edge was still perfect. I had not let the knife talk (clack closed).
  • Next I closed the knife very slowly until the very last few millimeters then let it talk. Opened and all was good.
  • Closed it about a centimeter from fully closed and let it snap shut. Opened it and looked. I could swear there was a little glint.
  • Repeated and let the knife snap closed from about 45° from closed and now I have a definite shiny area on the edge right where it was before.
My compression locks and axis locks etc. are looking pretty good to me today.

Well this knife still looks great handle scale wise. I like the etched blade. That is going to get pretty woppy jawed looking by the time I grind enough blade away to not punch the back spring.

Is this my first and last Large Stockman ? Could be.
Is this my last Boker ? Well that’s a tough one. I really like some of my Bokers and this is the first time I have had this edge ding thing . . . so . . . . I might buy another Boker . . . .

I shouldn’t damit !

I’m not so much looking for a solution. I suppose if I want to get totally crazy I could take the knife apart put a dot of TIG weld on the blade where the thing stops at the pivot and put it all back together.

Spending $70 on this knife seemed like kind of a lot for a Boker. Putting hundreds of dollars worth of my time into the knife to fix it . . . nah dude, nah . . . not going to happen.

Well at least I got this knife that I have been obsessed with for years. It still looks cool. Can kind of work as pocket jewelry when I know I won’t be using it much if at all.

For an actual work knife ? ? ? ?
Forget it.
I’m deeeeeeeeeeeepressed.
:(:mad::(:mad::(:thumbsdown:
 
o_O

You'll think of an easy enough fix. Or the problem will go away after some more sharpening.
Sounds a bit annoying for sure though, sorry brother.

It'll all work out:)

Michael
 
Yeah it sucks i have spent twice that and had the same thing happen. Im sure folks have spent more than that even. I FEEL YOUR PAIN! I know you said you weren't looking for a solution but im gonna give you one anyway for you and other people on the forum. Im sure there are other people that know this but it took me a long time to figure it out on my own! Cut a sliver off an old belt or other piece of leather and jam it down in the blade well right where its hitting. Works like a charm and the blade hitting the leather keeps it tight against the sides and it wont fall out.
 
Sometimes you have to take off a lot of metal to get it to stop hitting. Some guys close them easy but some guys like to close them one handed or forget to close them easy and one time and there goes your edge. Or you lend it to someone. Then you have to tell them "hey can you make sure you close that easy."
 
r8shell said:
don't let the knife snap closed.
Click to expand...
No . . . it's a slip joint . . . They like to talk. I like to listen. That's all part of it.
Besides when my fingers are sore, half the year, and slick with calouse and usually a bit oily while working, always, the chances of me closing slow and easy every time are about zero.

The leather thing is much appreciated ! THANK YOU. I knd of see it collecting grit from use and in my pockets . . . worth a try.

What would the old time knife makers say ?
"Kid . . .it's a different world now; I don't understand it either."
 
Even better than putting the sliver where the edge contacts, is put the sliver under the kick of the blade, right up next to the pivot. The kick is what's supposed to stop the blade lowering too far, and they just took a little too much off it.
 
black mamba said:
Even better than putting the sliver where the edge contacts, is put the sliver under the kick of the blade, right up next to the pivot. The kick is what's supposed to stop the blade lowering too far, and they just took a little too much off it.
Click to expand...
Hence my dot of weld idea.
Maybe some chip or sliver of brass. Matter of time before it work hardens too much and crumbles ? ? ? Or not ?
I mean when I bought this thing I intended to use it ALOT. My blade steel lasts for freekin' ever because I really am careful and it takes almost nothing to bring my edges back on a guided sharpener. I just don't use up much blade even on the EDCs.

And as I said originally the blade is full etched on one side and will look horible if I grind into it.
 
Unfortunately this seems to be a common issue with traditionals when they are new. Both my GEC 78 and my Moki Large Fish Owl can have the blades hit the springs (or backlock in the case of the Moki) if allowed to snap closed with enough force. I quickly decided I'd rather slow close them than worry about my carefully finished apexes getting flats on them from snapping any of them closed.
 
Wowbagger said:
No . . . it's a slip joint . . . They like to talk. I like to listen. That's all part of it.
Besides when my fingers are sore, half the year, and slick with calouse and usually a bit oily while working, always, the chances of me closing slow and easy every time are about zero.

The leather thing is much appreciated ! THANK YOU. I knd of see it collecting grit from use and in my pockets . . . worth a try.

What would the old time knife makers say ?
"Kid . . .it's a different world now; I don't understand it either."
Click to expand...
Personally, I almost always close my slipjoints in a slow, quiet, ladylike way, but if a loud thwack is part of your enjoyment of the knife, it's a valid complaint. The blade shouldn't hit the backspring, but sometimes one gets through the manufacturing process that does. I just think calling it a "knife shaped object" is overstating things, and I wouldn't judge all Boker knives, and certainly not all slipjoint knives by one example.

I would suggest returning it to the dealer for a refund or exchange, but I don't know if you can after sharpening it. Maybe contact Boker and see what they can do for you?
 
r8shell said:
Maybe contact Boker and see what they can do for you?
Click to expand...

If you contact Böker, good luck on getting a response.
I contacted them in December about a large Stockman and Trapper from the "Böker Plus" line, both by email and in their manufacturers forum here. (Package they came in says "440C". The blade etch on both knives says "440A". I asked (politely) "Which is it?")
As of this morning, no reply to the email or my forum post.
I don't know, maybe they pay more attention to those that buy the premium "Tree Brand" line.

FWIW none of the blades on the stockman I have hit the backspring.
 
I've recently really come to like Queen's #06L pattern, but most of them have the same problem. It's kind of a compromise in order to have the blade sit so low when closed, so I've come to not mind it too much. I usually don't let it snap closed from the half stop, but I've put a little strip of silicone rubber in the handle to prevent damage in case I do.

Certainly not ideal, but if I like the rest of the knife enough I can live with it.
 
Okay...one more time.....take the pocketknife with the blade open and lay it on it's side on an anvil, vise or a large FLAT, STABLE metal block, place it so the tang is flat against the flat surface of the anvil/vise. Using a metal punch with a small flat tip place the punch on the tang down close to the kick but not all the way to the very end of the kick and hit it with a good sized hammer, not to hard at first till you acquire a "feel" for if you are making an impact. By "smashing" the kick sideways you are forcing the metal to elongate at the kick. Check it when the blade is sharp or just hit the flat spot on the blade with a magic marker to see if it still hitting the back spring. If you have the tang flat on the anvil/vice, which is actually very easy, you will not harm the action in any way..... BUT no matter which way you move the kick, either up by filing or down by this method you will change where the backspring sits....usually not that much to notice or to feel unless you really have to move the kick a bunch!

Hope this helps!
Dave
 
If the contact with the edge actually requires letting it snap shut from a centimeter or more of open gap, and deliberately pressing on the closed blade doesn't even make it touch, the issue will likely solve itself with another sharpening or two. With that, the solution is easy and obvious, in two parts:

1. At least in the short term, don't let it snap shut. The 'talk' of the knife isn't worth the extra trouble, just to hear it snap shut.
2. USE the knife, and sharpen it up when it needs it. It won't take long before you realize it's no longer a problem anymore.

OR, if you absolutely MUST hear the snap of the blade upon closing, do it a LOT. The immediate and deep damage to the edge will force another complete resharpening or two, after which the issue will likely be solved, but in less time.

That's my 2 cents'...
 
The way I would deal with it is by very carefully radiusing the corner of the tang with a diamond needle file.

The aim is to soften the force with which the blade "snaps" shut. Be warned though, too much removed or even a little removed in the wrong place may make the blade not fully close properly.

Remove the tiniest bit at a time, clean then try the action. Picture what effect you are having on the corner of the tang, it's a tiny lever the spring is acting against to close the blade, altering it slightly can have a big effect.

Remember the blade sits closed on the kick, but where the very farthest end of the tang contacts the end of the spring is the pressure responsible for keeping the blade closed. This contact spot MUST remain past the pivot or the blade will not stay closed.

Done correctly it won't affect the spring height noticeably.
 
Last edited:
r8shell said:
I just think calling it a "knife shaped object" is overstating things
Click to expand...
Well it is kind of a flagship knife with this fancy handle and I gather from reading the reviews they have been making this knife for twenty years .
Seventy dollars . . . hmmmmm my drawer full of SAKS and other slip joints, many, many of them in the thirty to fifty dollar range . . . er . . . NOT A ONE has this problem.
So . . . all show and no go . . . I have had several fit and finish issues with Boker before and on this exact same knife .
Ts me off. I mean it isn't like they just started making this model or they specialize in kitchen cutlery and folders is like some side line.
That's what I am saying.

and I wouldn't judge all Boker knives, and certainly not all slipjoint knives by one example.
Click to expand...

Reread my comment above. I have a pile of Case Trappers alone and NONE of them have ever even hinted at having this problem . . . LARGER knives with bigger blades (point is they carry more momentum when closing) oh an a few of them are twenty dollars less money.
I'm just saying . . .

I would suggest returning it to the dealer for a refund or exchange, but I don't know if you can after sharpening it. Maybe contact Boker and see what they can do for you?
Click to expand...

Yes normally I would. But :
This is my third knife EXACTLY THIS MODEL AND COLOR ( I sent the first two back, scale color really weak but more importantly super weak blade springs and the largest blade was dead dull not even a hint of effort to sharpen it.

and the topper of toppers I modded the sheeps foot blade already (long story; see my thread on that).

Thanks for your interest, comments and help.
At this point I am keeping it because the scales were what I was after and they look PERFECT. These scales have been an obsession of mine for two years or so and I'm not giving them up now.
 
I'mSoSharp said:
The way I would deal with it is by very carefully radiusing the corner of the tang with a diamond needle file.

The aim is to soften the force with which the blade "snaps" shut. Be warned though, too much removed or even a little removed in the wrong place may make the blade not fully close properly.

Remove the tiniest bit at a time, clean then try the action. Picture what effect you are having on the corner of the tang, it's a tiny lever the spring is acting against to close the blade, altering it slightly can have a big effect.

Remember the blade sits closed on the kick, but where the very farthest end of the tang contacts the end of the spring is the pressure responsible for keeping the blade closed. This contact spot MUST remain past the pivot or the blade will not stay closed.

Done correctly it won't affect the spring height noticeably.
Click to expand...

That's a thought Thank You !
What I actually did so far is I went to my shop late last night, chucked up a side by side pair of Dermal cut off wheels, put some thickish plastic strip in the knife to protect the liner and plowed down about a foot of depth where the blade was hitting (think Ditch Witch) and all along there for over an inch from near the tip all the way back to where the pin goes through the spring.

Of course I exaggerate but I wanted to set the stage (I did take out some very significant depth).

So I washed the knife all out and cleaned and dried her.
Gave the blade a little tentative gentle slow swing closed. So far so good.
Then tried again with a let go right at forty five degrees or so, not a big deal and . . .
. . . you guessed it . . . a ding in another part of the blade right above the area I didn't grind EVEN THOUGH WHEN CLOSED I CAN LOOK IN THERE AND SEE LIGHT UNDER THE EDGE AND THE FOLDED PAPER CAN MOVE IN AND OUT ABOUT A MILLIMETER OR SO.
@#$$^%$^^%^ !

OK this is what is happening. The blade swings shut, hits the end of it's travel and the kick or what ever stops against the spring
THENNNNNNN!!!!! ! ! !
The momentum of the blade just keeps right on going and moves the end of the spring out and the blade just keeps right on going and the edge hits the spring near the pin.

WHY doesn't this ever happen with any of my other knives ? ? ? ?
Especially (and this is also to prove not only do I have more than one slip joint but I have more than one Boker (many, many) and this example is a Boker Stockman . . . it is the medium shown at the bottom of the photo with the blade open pointing at the problem child.
and
The spring action in it is just way strong . . . any stronger and I couldn't use it.
It talks so loud it will wake up my pardoner while she is asleep in the bed room two rooms away with the door shut
and it doesn't have this weird problem.
IMG_4955.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top