Edge Hits Back Spring on Boker Stockman Knife Shaped Object

[Jsega51]

So much drama. Sharpen it and it’ll go away. No need for the theatrics.

 

[Wowbagger]

So much drama. Sharpen it and it’ll go away. No need for the theatrics.

A careful reader would not have made this comment. See blade etching, see multiple sharpenings.
See none of the other knives did this out of the box.


PS :and the theatrics are free, it's what I do . . . don't want it to be too boring for you.

 

[Jsega51]

A careful reader would not have made this comment. See blade etching, see multiple sharpenings.
See none of the other knives did this out of the box.


PS :and the theatrics are free, it's what I do . . . don't want it to be too boring for you.

I did read your posts and it seems you’re not picking up on the simple fact that when you let the blade slam closed, it actually traveles further than the resting position, hence why your paper slides underneath unhindered but you’re seeing the rolled edge.

Take a knife that has a half stop, open it fully, hold the knife out in front of you with the handle parallel with the ground and push the blade to the half stop position. You’ll see the blade overtravel. Same thing happens when it slams closed.

Yes you sharpened it already but not really. All you didn’t was even out the rolled edge. You’ll need to just keep doing this until the blade doesn’t contact the spring, or stop slamming it closed. Don’t use the full etch as an excuse to not sharpen it further. You said you plan on using the knife. Using it like a knife is used will eventually scratch the etch anyhow. It’s not like you’ll be taking half the blade away.

 

[Wowbagger]

Yes I hear ya.
I just wonder how the other knives are different.
Maybe the hole in the spring is considerably larger than the pin (unlikely).
I don't slam any of the knifes closed. I just shut them like I have my whole life.
Maybe the spring thickness is thinner proportionally than the smaller Stockman of nearly identical design so it can over come the force of the spring and bounce more. It feels quite firm and stout where as the one I sent back for weak springs sure was sluggish.
Maybe the corner of the blade needs more rounding.
Curious anomaly.

Sharpen it a lot.

Kind of sounds like a taylor saying to a customer "The seat of your pants will stop pinching you just as soon as you wear some good size holes in the butt".


And don't take this too seriously and try to find the good natured ribbing but :
that motorcycle with the header . . . isn't that just the teeniest bit dramatic and theatrical going through a quiet neighborhood ?

 

[I'mSoSharp]

As you've already stated it's the momentum of the blade pushing the spring, bouncing rather than stoping, all slipjoints do this to a greater or lesser degree.

There is no saying what amount of sharpening (re-shaping) would be needed to make the clearance & making the kick higher will hold the blade further out when closed, again no saying how high that has to be.
Cutting into the spring (if I've understood what you've done) isn't really advised as as well as weakening the spring which would be advantageous it creates an area for a crack to form (broken spring) thought a cut or scratch running along the length of the spring isn't as bad as across it obviously. Would be good to not to get it too hot as well...........

A slipjoint seems like such a simple mechanism but there are a crazy amount of variables, how far the kick is from the pivot for example, the nearer the more likely the blade to "bounce" closing the further away less so. Also how tight the spring is riveted between the liners will have an effect on bounce, a loose spring will act faster & damp the snap less than a spring held tighter with friction slowing it's movement.

Shortening the corner of the tang makes the "lever" the spring acts on to close the blade shorter so making the "snap" weaker. It's crazy how the shape of the tang can effect opening & closing in so many ways, rounding it will even increase a the friction ever so slightly between spring & tang if it"s a fairly sharp 90° angle at the moment

Good luck with it

 

[jmarston]

I had this same problem on a GEC 72 of mine. It drove me nuts.There is a bulge in the spring right where it is pinned to keep it nice and strong. I too used a small cutoff wheel to take a gouge out and it worked. It worked until it did not. The spring eventually cracked and rendered the knife useless. Voiding warranties. It's what I do.

Anyways in the end, I think the small slice of cork or match stick or whatever stuffed in where it contacts will be your best bet. Keeps the knife snappy, functional and sharp while doing nothing to permanently modify the knife.

 

[Dirk D]

An issue, that could be observed at several slipjoint knives. You better never buy a french one, if you insist on snapping the knife closed. Nearly every traditional knive from France has this issue. Because of this there´s a french saying, which can be translated as: Silent spring makes a knife live longer. On my french ones nothing else helped, neither the leather nor the match piece trick, except closing the knife slowly.

 

[Bartleby]

It talks so loud it will wake up my pardoner while she is asleep in the bed room two rooms away with the door shut
and it doesn't have this weird problem.

Now I am the first to admit I too can take my musings on cutlery related issues a little too far at times, but no knife ever made is worth annoying and waking your partner while she sleeps. I say you ought to bin it and move on, begging her pardon on the way to the trash can.

 

[B.F.U]

Buy a GEC. They're better made all around, but most importantly for you they take blade rap deadly seriously.

So much so that I have the opposite problem of you; I often have to take time to carefully lower the kick so the tip isn't proud or close to it.

I've had a good number of GECs and not one has come with anything close to blade rap.

 

[Jsega51]

^ On the flip side, I’ve had plenty that do, so have others. There’s threads constantly on this “issue”.

 

[Will Power]

On French knives, Lags in particular, yes you are supposed to close them by hand to avoid blade damage. Fontenille-Pataud knives have a blade stop so you don't need to worry with them. The analogy with Traditional slipjoints is the same: if you have one which is a 'Rapper' treat it differently, don't snap it shut. Other slip joints are OK to do this with, learn by example - horses for courses.

Or, spend your time with Moderns and devote time to adjusting torqx screws..

 

[oldtymer]

Don't know about the validity but I read once that letting a knife snap closed in France is considered to be poor manners.
Maybe some of members from France could clarify that.

 

[Wowbagger]

A slipjoint seems like such a simple mechanism but there are a crazy amount of variables, how far the kick is from the pivot for example, the nearer the more likely the blade to "bounce" closing the further away less so. Also how tight the spring is riveted between the liners will have an effect on bounce, a loose spring will act faster & damp the snap less than a spring held tighter with friction slowing it's movement.

I'm just now finding that out ! whoo . . .

Shortening the corner of the tang makes the "lever" the spring acts on to close the blade shorter so making the "snap" weaker. It's crazy how the shape of the tang can effect opening & closing in so many ways, rounding it will even increase a the friction ever so slightly between spring & tang if it"s a fairly sharp 90° angle at the moment

Good luck with it

Good info and THANK YOU !

 

[Wowbagger]

I've had a good number of GECs and not one has come with anything close to blade rap.

Excellent ! I was concerned the opposite might be the case when someone said knives costing well over a hundred dollars were doing it. I immediately thought of GEC.

I once got cut by a knife with the tip just barely below the handle. My handkerchief snagged on the blade point and opened the knife part way in my pocket.

 

[Wowbagger]

On my french ones nothing else helped, neither the leather

I was wondering if the blade would cut through the leather after not too much time. There is always the chance it or the cork would form such a "V" groove that it could stop the blade without being cut. Depends on how thick the leather is I suppose.

 

[Wowbagger]

There is a bulge in the spring right where it is pinned to keep it nice and strong. I too used a small cutoff wheel to take a gouge out and it worked. It worked until it did not. The spring eventually cracked and rendered the knife useless. Voiding warranties. It's what I do.

Sorry to hear such an other wise great knife died.
Yes I stayed well away from the bump for the pin in the spring. No quick way to tell exactly how much steel thickness I have to play with between inner surface and the pin. I suppose I could calculate it if I took some very precise measurements.

The problem is knowing HOW MUCH the blade over travels. Heck I could grind right down to the pin and still have it contact or I could just touch it again with the Dremal, taking off a tenth of a millimeter and solve it. I'm letting it stew on the back burner for a few days.

Close it slow
Ha, ha the first time I went to open the knife after discussing that . . .
. . . well my finger nail has this one area that gets a notch in it because there is a ridge in my nail about there . . . combined with the fact that I have been using this knife a fair amount and it has a fairly strong spring, not too strong though I like it as is, . . .
well I went to just open it and the blade slipped off my nail and clacked shut. I told my self that I would have to pay better attention and not let that happen again . . . so . . . I swear I was actually paying attention and went to open it again and it did the exact same thing . . .
and . . . just to make me look like a complete idiot . . . a third time all in a matter of less than a minute.
Why ? Because there was a chunk of my nail missing where as the day before it was in tact.
I am now using a different part of my nail to open the knife and have not done that again. Just a matter of time though.
So much for closing it carefully .

 

[B.F.U]

Excellent ! I was concerned the opposite might be the case when someone said knives costing well over a hundred dollars were doing it. I immediately thought of GEC.

I once got cut by a knife with the tip just barely below the handle. My handkerchief snagged on the blade point and opened the knife part way in my pocket.

Well that's usually how GECs come, with the kick ground just enough that the tip isn't clear above the frame. But it's easier to fix than blade rap.

 

[Dirk D]

I was wondering if the blade would cut through the leather after not too much time. There is always the chance it or the cork would form such a "V" groove that it could stop the blade without being cut. Depends on how thick the leather is I suppose.

And how strong the spring is On my french ones the spring was so strong, that the 1-2 mm thick leather was cut only after a few closings

 

[Wowbagger]

Shortening the corner of the tang makes the "lever" the spring acts on to close the blade shorter so making the "snap" weaker. It's crazy how the shape of the tang can effect opening & closing in so many ways, rounding it will even increase a the friction ever so slightly between spring & tang if it"s a fairly sharp 90° angle at the moment

Today I got in there with a slim, square diamond grit file and rounded that corner. Not much. I had a tough time taking it all the way to the "gap" between the blade and the liner. That little bit will just have to wear away. All in all I think this made a very significant positive change.

First I will say I got a scare while filing and trying . . . it seemed that a diamond popped off the file and was enough to prevent the blade from opening. I had to clean the area with the corner of a piece of heavy paper to get the knife to open again.

I washed out the knife well with soap and water and the sprayer at the kitchen sink.
The knife still closes crisply so I didn't take too much off but it does it with less of a lurch and a tad slower. Part of the slowing seems to be from the rougher surface left by the diamond file. I have a set of variable grit diamond files but the narrow edges tend to be rounded so it would be even more hopeless to get over to the "gap" than the square file that I used.

I lubed it up and hopefully the surfaces won't gall too much in use and just polish themselves.

I was inspired enough by this improved pivot performance to again sharpen out the ding areas on the blade using the Edge Pro.
I haven't really flipped her closed with abandon but with normal cautious use there are no dings ! ! !

Has my slip joint slipped over from the land of unreal to real knife ? Many moons will tell.

PS: I was looking at my Case Trapper in CV that I have been using the spay blade to eat steak and chops etc., with . . . I serve it and cut it on a cast iron platter.
Ha, ha the damage to the spay blade from this is less than the damage from just closing my Stockman was. The cast iron turns out to be a fairly forgiving cutting surface; not saying it doesn't dull the blade but not much.

 

[buffalo01]

I had this problem with a case Barlow before. I fixed It a putting a tiny piece of leather where he kick lands.