Edge Pro Diamond Max stones???

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Maximumbob54

Gold Member
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Jun 10, 2024
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Has anyone used these yet? Are they worth the extra? I'm looking to finally try a resin bonded stone and since I already have an Edge Pro thought I would see what they have. They have what I guess are standard and then the "Diamond Max" that they swear has more diamond in the resin. I would assume more would be better than less since more abrasive means more cutting.
 
No experience with those. FWIW, I use the following stone sets all with great success. There are subtle differences based on the bond type. Except for the hardest (HRC >66) steels for which I use metallic hybrid diamond bonded stones I recommend in the order shown although difference is small top to bottom.
PDT Premium CBN Vitrified Bonded (New Version)
KDTU Hybrid Diamond
KDTU Hybrid CBN
Hapstone Premium CBN Hybrid
PDT Expert Diamond Resin Bonded (New Version)
Jende Diamond Resin Bonded
 
Maximumbob54 said:
Has anyone used these yet? Are they worth the extra? I'm looking to finally try a resin bonded stone and since I already have an Edge Pro thought I would see what they have. They have what I guess are standard and then the "Diamond Max" that they swear has more diamond in the resin. I would assume more would be better than less since more abrasive means more cutting.
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I have so many Diamond "matrix" stones for the Edge Pro I am going to have to research this one (no "Max") but from what I have seen / read more diamonds cut more quickly but lower diamond concentration polishes better . Is right in the product info for the other matirix stones .

More new diamond matrix / resin stones coming out ? ? ?
From what I have been seeing availability to these sorts of stones is drying up . Get what you can now is my advice .

I find it fascinating how the same stone can polish one super steel and mar up another somewhat lesser super steel .
Has kind of driven me back to non super steels . I like futzing around with sharpening and using "too many" stones to get the job done but this is getting rediculous .

Love my S90V off these sorts of stones though .
 
I've been using Venev Orion resin bonded stones for 4 or 5 years and they're hard to beat, on the blades that I sharpen. The TSPROF Alphas are good too, but they are hard to catch in stock.
 
I think I'm going to bite the proverbial bullet this weekend and order one. Probably the 80 grit Max since it says the course gets the biggest benefit. Not the biggest fan of the Edge Pro because the blade doesn't lock in place but I use it once in a blue moon. Maybe this will make me like it more. The original stones it came with have to be the worst about loading up and needing scrubbing so maybe upgrading them to diamond will fix the entire issue.
 
The Max stones are Matrix stones with as much diamond as I can feasibly put in them. The 4000 has a 1.8 times higher diamond to resin ratio, the 1700 to 450 is 2 times higher, the 250 is 2.2 times higher, and the 80 is 2.5 times higher. With this said, they are not radically different from the classic Matrix stones. I feel the main differences are that they go longer between dressings, have more feedback, and cut a little faster, but there is no difference in scratch pattern, so they polish as well. I think the 250 through 1700 stones respond the best to having more diamond in them, with the 4000 the least. It is hard to quantify the difference between the Max and Classic versions, but they do cost 25% more and I feel confident they are worth it. If you already have a set of Matrix stones and don't like spending money on stones, then I would say there is no reason for you to get the Max stones. If you like trying out different stones and already have more than you need, then you would probably find it worthwhile to get some.

Early on, I was worried about them wearing faster based on tests I did years ago. But now that I have refined the mix by doing production runs, I don't find they wear much faster than the Classic stones. I did a test of all of the Classic and Max stones for wear by using them on a straight bar of CPM4V. I first measured them after 1 minute of use after a fresh dress, then again after 500-800 strokes. There was either no wear or .0005" of wear. I used the 250 Max for 2500 strokes, much of which was with too much pressure as I was trying to make it wear, and it only lost .002" of thickness. I used a very light mineral oil as the lubricant so I didn't have to keep applying it, but it doesn't wash the swarf off as well as how I use dish soap with water when I am sharpening knives. I am very sure I get less wear when sharpening than these tests as I am far more diligent about keeping them clean and using light pressure. By the way, I counted how many strokes I did in 1 minute, then timed it to get a total stroke count.

To the OP, I would suggest trying the 250 over the 80 if you are only getting one stone. The 80 is a very coarse stone which is hard on the apex, but being resin bond it is not as aggressive as plated diamonds if you want to do heavy metal removal. The 250 is coarse enough to set the bevel on a dull knife, but not for thinning, and if you use very light pressure, it can refine the apex well enough to get around 140-160 BESS with good steel. I like the 80 to set the bevel on dull knives, as it is much faster than the 250, but I also have the full set.

Wowbagger, availability with the Matrix stones is fine on our end, any problems with retailers not keeping them in stock is on them.
 
Wow, I had no idea I was going to get an answer straight from the source. Yet another reason this place is so great. And thank you!!! I hear you on the 80 grit stone. I don't have a good course grit so figured that would fill that gap. Now I may get the 80 and 250. And good to known on the stock availability.
 
I am using 3x8 CGSW, EdgePro Matrix Stones.
I was curious about the Edge Pro Max, so I bought 6 stones.
I re-dressed it using Aluminum Oxide powder/stones at roughly 60, 240 grits.
However, the Max Stone is too rough so the scratches are too severe, and the Bess is also too high.
When using the Matrix Stone, you get 60~120 Bess, but when using the Max Stone, you get 300~400 Bess.
 
Odysseus621 said:
I am using 3x8 CGSW, EdgePro Matrix Stones.
I was curious about the Edge Pro Max, so I bought 6 stones.
I re-dressed it using Aluminum Oxide powder/stones at roughly 60, 240 grits.
However, the Max Stone is too rough so the scratches are too severe, and the Bess is also too high.
When using the Matrix Stone, you get 60~120 Bess, but when using the Max Stone, you get 300~400 Bess.
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That is not my experience at all. I am seeing no difference in BESS numbers between my classic and Max stones. The most I have seen is around 10 BESS, but it is not consistent enough to say it is the stones.
 
Diemaker said:
The Max stones are Matrix stones with as much diamond as I can feasibly put in them. The 4000 has a 1.8 times higher diamond to resin ratio, the 1700 to 450 is 2 times higher, the 250 is 2.2 times higher, and the 80 is 2.5 times higher
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You seem headed in the right direction but It is unclear what 1.8 times higher means without a definition of higher than what??? Here’s a quote from Dr Marvin Groegb's blog that discusses this issue

"The standard for grinding abrasives states the concentration in percent – a C100 concentration is supposed to be 25% by volume. The actual measurement (volume, weight times density, volume before sintering, volume after sintering…) is to my knowledge not defined. I have decided to just state the percentage by weight – which is 50%. 50% of this stone is diamond, 50% is resin."

Additionally higher diamond concentration brings a plethora of problems, some you have addressed...

- Diamonds are held less securely and can pull out prematurely leading to faster inconsistent wear and scratch patterns
- Lower friability when resin cannot wear away normally leading to diamond glazing giving the stones a sllck feeling. Cutting speed drops requiring constant dressing
-Inconsistent scratch depth across steel types and hardness when larger diamonds protrude and dominate the cut.

These are just a couple reasons why top stone brands do not use excessive diamond concentration rather they take a balanced approach to diamond concentration, bond strength, porosity and abrasive exposure to get a a constant cutting rate with a friability that consistently exposes fresh diamonds helping to maintain flatness and control swarf. Can you show how your diamond ratios address these issues
 
I don't want to state exactly how much diamond the stones I make have, but will say the Classic Matrix stones have always been higher than 50% diamond to resin by weight. If the Classic stones were 50% then doubling the diamond to resin content would be 67% diamond to 33% resin. The biggest reason for the higher price is they are much harder to make.

"Diamonds are held less securely and can pull out prematurely leading to faster inconsistent wear and scratch patterns" - It depends on the resin and fillers as to whether this is true or not.

"Lower friability when resin cannot wear away normally leading to diamond glazing giving the stones a sllck feeling. Cutting speed drops requiring constant dressing" - My stones are not designed to self-dress and the diamonds are not friable. You must dress them when the action slows down too much. This greatly reduces wear and gives the user more freedom to modify how the stone works. I don't see this as a compromise vs self dressing. I could do this by adding fillers, like everyone else, but view the increase in wear as a big negative.

"Inconsistent scratch depth across steel types and hardness when larger diamonds protrude and dominate the cut." - I use very well sized diamond powders so there are no larger diamonds to cause this problem. This is a cheap diamond powder problem. The biggest problem with cheap diamond powders is fines. They typically are a much larger percentage of the powder than oversized crystals and do little more than take up space.

I think the main reason top stone brands don't use much diamond is because it costs so much. This is also probably why they use cheap abrasives like Sic and Alox in their diamond stones, as well as all of the other fillers. I only use diamonds and resin in my stones, no fillers.

"with a friability that consistently exposes fresh diamonds helping to maintain flatness and control swarf." - This is sales pitch BS. Consistently exposing fresh diamonds during use is because the stones are wearing, and since we use the centers more than the ends you are helping to dish them, NOT maintain flatness. It also increases swarf since you now have stone swarf as well as steel swarf to deal with. When used properly my stones don't wear the resin during use, but will lose exposed diamonds over time. The harder the steel and the lighter the pressure the longer it will take to remove those exposed diamonds. If you dress them properly, they don't change thickness, as all you do is remove a little resin to expose the diamonds. Granted you will dress away diamonds on the ends to keep them flat.

As far as scratch pattern or "polish" I don't put a high value on it per stone. If you want a finer scratch pattern, then use a finer stone. This only becomes important for your last stone, as long as the scratch pattern is consistent so it doesn't cause problems for the next stone to remove them. Once you get to the final stone, then it needs to leave a fine enough scratch pattern for the strop, which I feel is always the last thing to use when sharpening. The softer surface of a strop will be better at polishing than a stone. I think the best strop is my polymer strop with my oil based emulsions. It is much stiffer than leather so it doesn't convex the apex like leather. Next you have to ask if you want to polish the bevel or deburr the apex. If you want to polish, then use diamonds, if you want to deburr, then use a soft white aluminum oxide. The softer the steel, starting with Maxamet, then the better the aluminum oxide will work at lowering your BESS scores. The .5 micron aluminum oxide emulsion I make is the closest thing to unicorn dust I have, it works way better than it should. It is also available with a water carrier for leather.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
Now I may get the 80
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Yes the 80 has CHANGED MY LIFE . I've been futzing around with a lot of other things ; e.g. a 60 grit Ruby stone that first crumbled in use , then finally "cured" and sort of stared thinning my blades . . . until it got all "dull" and unagressive and that wasn't even on these high vanadium alloys just more basic stuff like XHP.

The 80 diamond matrix just gets 'er DONE !
 
Odysseus621 said:
I am using 3x8 CGSW, EdgePro Matrix Stones.
I was curious about the Edge Pro Max, so I bought 6 stones.
I re-dressed it using Aluminum Oxide powder/stones at roughly 60, 240 grits.
However, the Max Stone is too rough so the scratches are too severe, and the Bess is also too high.
When using the Matrix Stone, you get 60~120 Bess, but when using the Max Stone, you get 300~400 Bess
Click to expand...
Would you mind giving more details about how and what you are sharpening, please? This is abnormal, so I would like to figure out the cause of the poor performance. I don't mind doing it on a forum since if you are having a problem, someone else probably is or will have the same, but if you would prefer emails, mine is david@cgsw.us. We all sharpen differently and I find my stones like light pressure. If you have a standard stone arm, you probably don't want to add any pressure when sharpening with my stones, especially the finer grits. Tsprof advises the same, so I know I am not alone on this.
 
Ordered the 250 and eagerly waiting to get it. If it's the voodoo that is claimed I may be back for more. We need to invent shipping teleportation. Waiting is the pits.

The 80 could be next.
 
Got the 250 and used it on my Griptilion in S30V. It still had a factory edge and I didn't change the edge angle but it was for sure dull. While it did load up more than I thought it should or would it did cut very fast and clean:

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This is my only bonded diamond stone so I can't compare it to any other similar but for a 250 grit it's cutting more like I'd say the Work Sharp 400ish diamond plates do. This is not a very "toothy" edge that you would think you would get from a 250 grit stone. I'm guilty of just diving right in and not reading any directions so I maybe should have used soapy water or something to help the stone (resin?) not load up so bad. It did mostly clean off just under water with a paper towel across it. It sure beats the pants off any ceramic or aluminum oxide or whatever else. I know S30V isn't Maxamet but I'm still impressed how quickly it removed steel. You do NOT want a heavy hand with this stuff or you will chew through blade. For just the function I've had this one use I'd say it's a nice upgrade for sure over the regular stones enough I may never use them again. This could even be a one and done stone. But I'm a glutton for this stuff and will likely get at least a few more. Surely at least the 80 to put a better edge angle on this knife alone.
 
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