Edge Pro Diamond Max stones???

[Diemaker]

Resin bond stones don't like to be used dry, as they load up very quickly and glaze over. In fact, I find that any diamond stone cuts better and lasts longer with any liquid. Even just honing the edges of carbide inserts works better with a liquid than dry. Anyway, you will most likely need to dress the stone to get it back working as it should, but using it like it is won't hurt it until you do. Until you dress it, if it won't clean up with soapy water, try some alcohol, or Ajax, Comet, Barkeepers Friend, etc. The trick to using the Matrix stones is to use light pressure. Since I only use diamonds in them, they still cut with virtually no pressure. So, the less pressure used, the shallower the scratches, the keener the apex, the longer the stone will go between dressings, but the more strokes you will need.

As you said the Matrix 250 is a good one and done stone, especially if you finish with very light pressure and a light stropping to deburr.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Is there a recommended dressing stone for these? I never would have thought to use water with it. Not being porous I wouldn't think any would stick. I guess soapy water residue will stick a little. I get what I get for assuming yet again and just diving right in.

Edit:

I see I should have noticed when I bought the stone they also sell leveling grit to use.

Ordered with the 80 grit stone.

 

[Diemaker]

I have played with many different naguras, and even made a few, but none of them get close to what loose abrasive on a plate do. It is a mess but I think it is the best way to dress any stones. For that 250 it should only take around 15-20 seconds to clean up properly, without losing any thickness.

 

[Odysseus621]

Would you mind giving more details about how and what you are sharpening, please? This is abnormal, so I would like to figure out the cause of the poor performance. I don't mind doing it on a forum since if you are having a problem, someone else probably is or will have the same, but if you would prefer emails, mine is david@cgsw.us. We all sharpen differently and I find my stones like light pressure. If you have a standard stone arm, you probably don't want to add any pressure when sharpening with my stones, especially the finer grits. Tsprof advises the same, so I know I am not alone on this.

I heard that my stone was sent to you on Edge Pro. Have you checked my stone? I sent an email but haven't received a reply.

 

[Diemaker]

I heard that my stone was sent to you on Edge Pro. Have you checked my stone? I sent an email but haven't received a reply.

I have looked at them, and they look fine, but I haven't had time to test them out yet. I have a few parts I have to make, and then I am going to do a best practices with the Max stones video using them. I will email you once I get the video done so you can see how well they can work.

 

[Wowbagger]

Resin bond stones don't like to be used dry, as they load up very quickly and glaze over. In fact, I find that any diamond stone cuts better and lasts longer with any liquid. Even just honing the edges of carbide inserts works better with a liquid than dry. Anyway, you will most likely need to dress the stone to get it back working as it should, but using it like it is won't hurt it until you do. Until you dress it, if it won't clean up with soapy water, try some alcohol, or Ajax, Comet, Barkeepers Friend, etc. The trick to using the Matrix stones is to use light pressure. Since I only use diamonds in them, they still cut with virtually no pressure. So, the less pressure used, the shallower the scratches, the keener the apex, the longer the stone will go between dressings, but the more strokes you will need.

As you said the Matrix 250 is a good one and done stone, especially if you finish with very light pressure and a light stropping to deburr.

On that topic , roughly , I have always used them with water , never dry ; heaven for bid . The last few sharpening sessions I have taken to putting a "Rust Eraser" block in the sink in a bowel full of soapy water (basic dish soap) . Rather then just scrub the Matirx stone with the RE Block and tap water several times while I sharpen I now use the block dipped in the deluted dish soap . Seems to make some desirable difference at getting the swarf off the stones . I haven't taken to using soapy watere on the stones while sharpening . ? I might start dropping them / slick to hold onto ?

They sure did a hell of a nice job on my last knife : Delica K390 . . . several stones up to the 4000 5 micron then micro fiber strop with 3 micron diamond .
OH YA BABY ! ! !

Could take more than one curl off arm hairs .

 

[Rob Babcock]

I clean mine with a Magic Eraser.

 

[Tensaw]

I used to use soapy water with my resin bonded stones and get them (mostly) clean with a Magic Eraser or Barkeeper's Friend or a rust block. But after switching to oil, I find that cleaning a stone after use is much easier, quicker, and more effective. Cleaning a stone is simply spraying the surface with alcohol and wiping with a paper towel. I didn't expect it, but using oil in place of soapy water is a cleaner process in general.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I used to use soapy water with my resin bonded stones and get them (mostly) clean with a Magic Eraser or Barkeeper's Friend or a rust block. But after switching to oil, I find that cleaning a stone after use is much easier, quicker, and more effective. Cleaning a stone is simply spraying the surface with alcohol and wiping with a paper towel. I didn't expect it, but using oil in place of soapy water is a cleaner process in general.

Any worry over oil breaking down the resin? Probably not but the thought just popped into my head.

 

[Diemaker]

Any worry over oil breaking down the resin? Probably not but the thought just popped into my head.

Not really with the resins used in the stones I know of, as long as you use mineral or vegetable based oils. It is a bit of a crap shoot with some of the honing oils available because some of them use more than just oil.

 

[Maximumbob54]

It is a bit of a crap shoot with some of the honing oils available because some of them use more than just oil.

That's what I was worried about. I have an old gallon just that I'd swear used to say Smiths but whatever is inside has long wore off the label from being wiped clean over the years. And it has a pretty strong smell so I guess I won't be using that stuff. It used to be for some old hand me down stones.

I'll buy some fresh mineral oil to use. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Diemaker]

That's what I was worried about. I have an old gallon just that I'd swear used to say Smiths but whatever is inside has long wore off the label from being wiped clean over the years. And it has a pretty strong smell so I guess I won't be using that stuff. It used to be for some old hand me down stones.

I'll buy some fresh mineral oil to use. Thanks for the heads up.

I suggest white mineral oil as it has a much lower viscosity.

 

[Tensaw]

Any worry over oil breaking down the resin? Probably not but the thought just popped into my head.

I've been using Lansky honing oil for a couple of years with no problems. I'm pretty sure it's basically mineral oil. I feel like it's better for the stones because there's no aggressive scrubbing to clean them after use.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I suggest white mineral oil as it has a much lower viscosity.

"White mineral oil is a highly refined version of standard mineral oil. While both are petroleum byproducts, standard mineral oil may contain impurities and is often used for industrial purposes. White mineral oil is ultra-pure, colorless, odorless, and safe for direct human contact or ingestion, making it ideal for cosmetics and food."

I didn't even know there was a difference. I thought all mineral oil was food safe. Old dog learning new tricks. Huh.

 

[Diemaker]

"White mineral oil is a highly refined version of standard mineral oil. While both are petroleum byproducts, standard mineral oil may contain impurities and is often used for industrial purposes. White mineral oil is ultra-pure, colorless, odorless, and safe for direct human contact or ingestion, making it ideal for cosmetics and food."

I didn't even know there was a difference. I thought all mineral oil was food safe. Old dog learning new tricks. Huh.

Its viscosity is very close to that of water so it doesn't form a thick film that inhibits the stone from cutting, but it will get EVERYWHERE if you're not very careful.

 

[SBaker34]

Its viscosity is very close to that of water so it doesn't form a thick film that inhibits the stone from cutting, but it will get EVERYWHERE if you're not very careful.

Any issues with using ballistol in a pinch for rust prone steels? regular matrix stones if it matters

 

[Diemaker]

Any issues with using ballistol in a pinch for rust prone steels? regular matrix stones if it matters

I just looked at the safety data sheet and it is >= 60% white mineral oil and 10% - 30% Proprietary Petroleum Distillate. While nothing shows up as being toxic I can't say for sure it is safe, but I expect it is. At least there are no nasty solvents in it, which is what I would worry about attacking the resin.

 

[SBaker34]

I just looked at the safety data sheet and it is >= 60% white mineral oil and 10% - 30% Proprietary Petroleum Distillate. While nothing shows up as being toxic I can't say for sure it is safe, but I expect it is. At least there are no nasty solvents in it, which is what I would worry about attacking the resin.

I've been a big fan of the matrix stones, those being my first ever bonded stones of course, but while I will read through the whole topic tomorrow once the sleeping meds wore off any good guidelines on when/how often to lap the stones and with what? Afraid of doing it wrong and messing them up badly so. Just using barkeepers friend for now.

Besides soapy water is there any one specific oil or honing solution you'd encourage above and beyond most others?

 

[Diemaker]

I've been a big fan of the matrix stones, those being my first ever bonded stones of course, but while I will read through the whole topic tomorrow once the sleeping meds wore off any good guidelines on when/how often to lap the stones and with what? Afraid of doing it wrong and messing them up badly so. Just using barkeepers friend for now.

Besides soapy water is there any one specific oil or honing solution you'd encourage above and beyond most others?

My favorite oil is pure white mineral oil. While it doesn't evaporate like water, you also don't wash the stone off while using it, so it isn't perfect. I have heard of two instances where the users were using Dr Marv's oil and let the swarf build up until there was enough to start "dressing" the stones as they sharpened, which put the stones into meltdown mode. While this is a bit of an issue with the 80 and maybe the 250 Matrix stones, it is a much bigger issue with the Max stones since they have so much more diamonds in them.

I have been using just enough water in the dish soap that wets the stone out nicely. I find this keeps the stones cleaner, as long as you keep them wet and wash them off while still wet, and the stones cut a little faster. I put the mix in a dropper bottle to dispense, making sure I don't touch the dropper tip to the stone as it will contaminate it.

How often you dress the stones depends on how you use them. The less pressure you use and the better you are at keeping them wet, the longer they go between dressings. The only way to really know is to use them for a while, then dress them, and notice the difference in how they cut. Keep in mind you need to sharpen 2 or 3 knives for them to settle down to how they should work. They are extra aggressive right after dressing, and the finer the grit, the more often they will need dressing. The video below is the most recent one I have made on how to dress them.

 

[Wowbagger]

Thank you very much for taking the time to make and post your video!

Could you please clarify the last comment : ~ the grit doesn't matter . . . the coarser stones are a bigger deal because they need it less .

The Video stops before I can read it and tapping it to stop before that makes a bunch of stuff super imposed over the text .

Anyway what was that about the coarser stones and or some stones needing it less but something about it is a big deal ?
Thank you .