edge pro or tormek

Thom,
I have been using a Tormek for quite some time and get great results. I am curious as to why you say the EdgePro is for "really controllable work". With the Tormek knife jigs I can't understand why you would not find it very controllable, too. My Striders, Sebenzas, and Benchmades all have edges that look better than a factory edge and cut better than factory once I give them a new edge on the Tormek followed by stropping on a 1"x30" leather belt. I have started sharpening for the "locals" and do ~ 15-20 knives a week. For me it is a lot faster than my old Lansky and easier to get a repeatable edge angle. Just one Hoosier's opinion...
Stu
 
How are the edges under heavy use? (thick dirty cardboard, staples, chopping, etc) I've always thought about getting a tormek but never put the money down because despite the size of the wheel, you still end up with a hollow ground edge, seems like something that wouldn't last long unless all you did was work on wood shavings all day.
 
Stu,

Does the Tormek allow for infinitely adjustable angle control which leaves the user with a flat edge? If so, then I stand corrected. Actually, if you can get the results you want, I still stand corrected. :o
 
yoda4561,
There is a jig to set the angle of the edge grind. You can set it to say 25° or 30°/side for heavy jobs or as low as the thickness of the blade allows. I keep my heavy use Benchmade 551 at 25°/side and my Sebenzas at 15°/side since the Sebs don't see much heavy work. As far as the hollow grind issue, the width of the edge is so narrow that the 10" wheel does not give that much hollow. I was doing a set ot 12 wood chisels for a gent last weekend and I could see a slight hollow in the grind since is was about 1/2" to 3/4" long. On my wife's kitchen knives, my pocket knives, and my fixed blade knives, it is not visible.
 
I don't own both machines so I'll address the Tormek which I have used for about 3-4 years to supplement my sharpening with natural stone, waterstone,ceramic, Scary Sharp, leather....

I agree that the hollow is negligible. The knife jigs, small knife at least, which is what I would need, does not do small angles, therefore I sharpen freehand. So Thom may be correct in that regard depending on whether or not you need to use a jig. Of course you can use the side or top of the wheel to grind flat.

It also seems that another commonly heard complaint about the machine is that it is slow in removing metal; which can also mean more controlled sharpening. I think that it is easy to use and well-made but I don't know if I would use it if I were truly a professional sharpener. I sharpen my knives which I use professionally, but that is quite different.
 
thombrogan said:
Stu,

Does the Tormek allow for infinitely adjustable angle control which leaves the user with a flat edge? If so, then I stand corrected. Actually, if you can get the results you want, I still stand corrected. :o
Click to expand...

The WM-200 angle jig allows angles from 10°/side to 75°/side to be set. When you consider the width of the edge grind and the diameter of the wheel it is impossible to see any radius (or hollow) in the grind from the 10" wheel. I always wear an OptiVisor when sharpening and have never noticed any hollowing even on knife blades with wide edges. I am somewhat obsessed with having an edge that looks as good as it is sharp. On thicker blades I keep the angle to 20°-30° so the edge does not get too wide. On thinner blades, like the hollow ground Sebenzas, I use a 15°/side grind and the edge is still very narrow, yet very sharp. One key to getting a great edge from the Tormek is getting a good dress on the wheel. I use the diamond dresser from Tormek and then take an old Lansky fine diamond hone and smooth the wheel some more. After the edge is ground I strop the blade on a 1"x30" leather belt with white rouge and the grind lines are nearly eliminated.
 
annr said:
It also seems that another commonly heard complaint about the machine is that it is slow in removing metal; which can also mean more controlled sharpening. I think that it is easy to use and well-made but I don't know if I would use it if I were truly a professional sharpener. I sharpen my knives which I use professionally, but that is quite different.
Click to expand...

I agree that the ~ 90 RPM of the wheel and the fact that the wheel runs in a water bath helps in controling the grind and heat build up in the blade material. I use my Tormek as my main tool in my semi-retirement job. I looked at the F. Dick SM111 as my main sharpener ($2000+), but the Tormek has done well and is more versatile. If I had a mobile sharpening business and was doing 50+ knives a day for restaurants then maybe the SM111 would be a consideration. I know several gents that use two or more Tormeks in their business and seem to like them.
 
WhitleyStu,

I just looked at my MW-200 angle master; it goes from 15-75 degrees. I am fairly certain that Jeff Farris of Tormek will agree that low angles on small knives is one area where the machine will not perform. It depends on the height of the blade. Recently I made another attempt and could get 22.5 deg with the small knife jig; the edge is 2-3 times the size of that of the original; and the thickness behind the edge is thicker than the original. I and other users have suggested a jig for small angles on small knives but don't have one yet. Jeff is aware of this. Unless something has changed in say the last 6 months I would look into this before assuming that it can be done.

If it has changed anyone, let me know.
 
Told you I stand corrected. You may want to check out an EdgePro to see about the grind-line removal. As a tricked out kit is a heavy investment, you may want to borrow one from a friend, especially as you're already getting the results you want.
 
It's no big deal to modify that jig (do some grinding), replace the thumbscrew with a flathead and so forth and you can get what you want out of it.
 
No Thom,
I think that you were right, unless something has really changed with the geometry of the machine. I think those low angles depend on the size and shape of the piece.

I agree about trying someone else's machines with the caveat that if you aren't an experienced sharpener and can find all of these idiosyncracies you may not make the better choice. Also it is possible to grow into a machine and get more out if it than you thought. But I still like your suggestion of the hands-on, which I didn't do and wonder ....
 
The problems seem to be that the clamps of the jig are too thick and don't clear the stone; and since I sharpen a short double hollow ground blade with a fairly thick rounded spine there is no secure contact when tightening the jig so the knife is not centered in the jig. I'm sure that a jig could be made, or this one modified but that is above my pay grade.
 
annr said:
The problems seem to be that the clamps of the jig are too thick and don't clear the stone; and since I sharpen a short double hollow ground blade with a fairly thick rounded spine there is no secure contact when tightening the jig so the knife is not centered in the jig. I'm sure that a jig could be made, or this one modified but that is above my pay grade.
Click to expand...

One gent on the Yahoo Tormek group made a small jig out of a Lansky blade clamp, but it is only needed for very small blades. I guess it all comes down to what each of us regard as a small blade. My smallest blade is on a Case canoe and most of the knives I sharpen are well within the small Tormek jig's clamping ability. My wife's 5.5" boning knife is rather narrow from the edge to the spine, but clamps up with the Tormek small jig. There is also a knife jig that Tormek sells only in Europe, but a few have been shipped to the U.S. and if you look around you can find them. They are good for long narrow blades. I just checked my small Tormek knife jig compared to the imported jig the and the imported jig is 10° thinner at the tip of the clamp. I would like to see how a mill job on the Tormek small jig would help out...
 
Thanks WhilteyStu,

I exchanged a few emails with a very pleasant fellow from the Tormek group who had made had a prototype of a small knife jig. At one point I was going to send him some knives and my Tormek jig to see if he could make something for me. Our plan never panned out; he got too busy with his own projects, interests, travels etc. now that he is retired.

I don't have the ability to mill so that would be out for me. The knives are about 19mm from edge to spine and this is not the smallest blade. If you wish, you can see the profile photos of the double hollow ground, (as well as some Japanese Damascus steel which I wouldn't sharpen on the grinder either). I posted them on the Tormek photo album under reedknives: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/tormekusers/photos
I thought that I might be alone in needing a jig like this but there are others of us out there.:)

That's interesting about the European jig. I'll keep my eyes peeled.
 
J Caswell, cbwx34, annr, it is good to see fellow Tormek owners posting here as well as on the Yahoo Tormek group. Sometimes I feel with all the talk of Sharpmaker, EdgePro, Lansky, ... that there are not too many gents using the Tormek mainly for knives. Thanks for jumping in with your thoughts, information, and ideas.
 
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