edge pro or tormek

[QuietOned]

I own and use both Tormek and the Edge Pro - Professional. They both have the good and bad points.

I am by no means a Tormek expert, I've only seen one other person use one. So anyone who has had hands on training from the Tormek sellers/users will probably have a lot better results than I get.

The Knife jigs for the Tormek do NOT allow for low angles on narrow width blades. Trying to sharpen a 15" long fillet knife with a max blade width of 3/4" to less than 17° using either of the Knife jigs is totally futile. (for me any width less than 1 1/4" gets done free hand). Sharpening without the use of jigs does take some practice and time to get used to and will never result in the perfect bevels many people are looking for.

Most pocket knives are much easier to sharpen on the Edge Pro than on the Tormek. Be damn careful free handing on the Tormek with a folder of any kind where the wheel rotation can close the blade. You can amputate digits or portions there of.

As has been stated the size of the leather wheel is a definite hindrance to power stropping/honing. I've owned my Tormek for over 3 years and to be honest stropping on the wheel is still a hit or miss proposition. Hands on training from a professional might help I don't know, there isn't one within 2000 miles of me. (Not that I would go more than 900 anyway.)

The Tormek will re-bevel a knife faster than you can imagine. I find it faster than a belt sander, maybe because I can exert as much pressure as I want on the Tormek where a belt sander/grinder would burn the blade. I've taken 64RC 10" chefs knife from a 23° bevel to a 12° bevel in 10 minutes on the Tormek. Change out the stone to the 4000 grit and the knife was done in another 5 minutes, 15 minutes total that includes attaching the jig, grading the stone, and the stone change.

Doing such a massive re-bevel on the Edge Pro using a twin to the original chefs knife took about 50 - 60 minutes from beginning to end. Finishing with a 3000K tape. (sorry I didn't fully time it).

The best of both world is to set the bevels (regrind) with the Tormek and then finish with the Edge Pro. I'll knock the existing bevel edges back and thin it out. Then finish with a micro bevel using the Edge Pro, using 1 stone and a series of PSA tapes. It doesn't take much time at all.

The Tormek will allow you to do a lot more tasks than just knives as well. It is not the best knife sharpener. IF you get good with the leather wheel and have several wheels for going down to 0.25 microns by power honing with various compounds I suspect one can turn out acceptable knives.

For precise even width bevels you can't beat the Edge Pro. You can do small knives, recurves and short knives on the Edge Pro that you can't easily do on the Tormek.

The 4000 grit stone is much much finer than the standard Tormek stone and is a definite nice to have. Especially if you're like me and can't seem to get the hang of the leather honing wheel. The 4000 grit stone and a standard flat 3" width leather strop allows me to almost match the Edge Pro. Almost! Say within 5-10 % points. Not without more effort however. The ultimate edge that I can get with the Edge Pro I can't obtain with the Tormek.

Final thought if you're just doing knives and the occasional pair of scissors, chisels, and plane blades then the Edge Pro - Pro is a better investment in my opinion. If you have the money by all means get them both you won't regret having both of them.

If I could only have one? It would be the Edge Pro.

 

[annr]

The Tormek will re-bevel a knife faster than you can imagine. I find it faster than a belt sander, maybe because I can exert as much pressure as I want on the Tormek where a belt sander/grinder would burn the blade. I've taken 64RC 10" chefs knife from a 23° bevel to a 12° bevel in 10 minutes on the Tormek.

I'm also self-taught and your assessment comes the closest to my experience of anyone I've 'met' online. But I tried to sharpen some Global knives and I thought that it would take forever to reduce the bevel. I went on to do it by hand w/ ScarySharp system. Are you a really big person? (I always have to watch the strain I put on my wrists and hands since I am a musician so it's also possible I don't lean into it as much as you.) I was going freehand.

I'll knock the existing bevel edges back and thin it out. Then finish with a micro bevel using the Edge Pro, using 1 stone and a series of PSA tapes. It doesn't take much time at all.

This is what I have found the Tormek machine most useful for--thinning and adjusting bevel edges. I also use the sides of the wheel for flattening and I think that that works pretty well. I don't have the Edge Pro, instead I move to the Scary Sharp System for the microbevel; and work my way up from 1-9K followed by a charged leather hone.

IYO would the 4000# stone be a good replacement for the early wet/dry sandpaper 1,2,4K ? Because when I use my knife blade I scrape onto metal I have to sharpen about 10% of my time-------- working on the edge. I am thinking that maybe the 4000# would save some time. Any imput would be appreciated.

 

[1Bigdog]

Great post 1Bigdog!


Do you rotate the wheels or just use the 4000#? If you do change the wheels is it difficult?



I also freehand but I have never gotten control of the leather wheel. I don't know what I am doing wrong to get such inconsistent results. Any pointers or things that you discovered that make a big difference? I agree that I run into the machine or other wheel, even with my small blades.



Could you please explain this. It sounds quite helpful and I don't think I get it.

Changing the wheels on the Tormek is quite simple to do. I have never needed to use anything but the 4000 grit wheel so far however. If I were to sharpen an ax or hatchet, I would but the standard wheel on it.

Regarding where to hold the blade in relationship to the wheel go to

http://www.geocities.com/stevebottorff/knives/paperinst.htm

Looking at the wheel from the side, if a vertical line were to be drawn from the center of the shaft straight up that would be 0 degrees if you whereto sharpen a knife at that point which was held parallel to the floor.

If an imaginary line were to be drawn at 45 degrees from the center and the knife sharpened at this point held parallel to the floor then you would be creating a 45 degree edge on one side of your knife. Since you generally sharpen both sides of a knife you would have a knife with two 45 degree angles which equate to an 90 degree edge.

11 degrees of center on both sides of the knife equals a 22 degree edge. There is no reason why you can not draw lines on the wheel similar to the photo on the link. Rotate the wheel so that 0 degrees is vertical and and make a reference mark on the machine for where say the 11 degree mark is for the diameter of the wheel is at that moment. (As the wheel gets smaller the point wheel change)

Regarding the leather wheel and consistently getting good results from it, I think that the real difference for me isn't with my skill (I am still a rookie) but because I am using a 4000 grit wheel instead of a 200 grit.

You can't get a polished edge with a 200 grit wheel. You get a polished edge to start with when using the 4000 grit. Very little work is needed to be done with the leather wheel because of this and I only use very light pressure with it.

But with little trouble, I end up with a polished edge that will push cut a thin piece of paper.

 

[mordi]

QuietOned thank you . as I have the edge pro already , I think I'll get a tormek aswell to save time on re beveling .

 

[annr]

Thanks 1Bigdog,

I think I understand what Steve is describing. Is that what you were meaning by "ground just a little bit off center with the top of the wheel"? I just wanted to make sure--I'm always happy to get a new pointer.

On the subject of the various wheels, the hollow, the knife jigs. Have you read this paper which talks alot about Torkmek?
http://mse.iastate.edu/files/verhoeven/KnifeShExps.pdf

This link has been on other BF posts but it is interesting to read about the how the 200#, 4000# waterstone , followed by leather performed and compared to other machines. I believe that some will point out that the experimenter didn't grade the stone to 1000#. Also, if memory serves, the tester writes something about finding the knife jig to sharpen the sides of the knives asymetrically by a few degress, p.49.

 

[WhitleyStu]

"I think I understand what Steve is describing. Is that what you were meaning by "ground just a little bit off center with the top of the wheel"? I just wanted to make sure--I'm always happy to get a new pointer."

If you use this link http://users.ameritech.net/knives/paper.htm and go down the page you will see a paper wheel which is marked with degree lines to show where to hold the blade to get the best contact for each blade edge angle.

"Also, if memory serves, the tester writes something about finding the knife jig to sharpen the sides of the knives asymetrically by a few degress."

As to the edge having more stock being taken off one side that the other and the edge not being centered on the blade: Once I have the blade in the jig and set the angle I always turn the jig and blade over the see it i get the same reading on the second side. Due to different blade profiles (spear, saber, hollow) there is always a chance the blade is not being held centered in the jig. Loosening the blade and shifting it slightly will correct this issue. I recheck and adjust till I get the same reading on both sides

 

[JCaswell]

"Also, if memory serves, the tester writes something about finding the knife jig to sharpen the sides of the knives asymetrically by a few degress."

As to the edge having more stock being taken off one side that the other and the edge not being centered on the blade: Once I have the blade in the jig and set the angle I always turn the jig and blade over the see it i get the same reading on the second side. Due to different blade profiles (spear, saber, hollow) there is always a chance the blade is not being held centered in the jig. Loosening the blade and shifting it slightly will correct this issue. I recheck and adjust till I get the same reading on both sides

I'm a little surprised the tester didn't intuitively realize this and deduce the blade was crooked in the fixture. My experience with their knife jig is that you can get it crooked, but it's pretty easy to get straight the first time.

Good tip about checking both sides. I hadn't done that, just looked at it to see it was straight. Never had a problem with asymetry, but a double check with the gage is a good practice.:thumbup:
I'll add it to the routine!

 

[annr]

I would like to take another stab at using the leather wheel.

I sharpen the front of the blade flat to the wheel, zero lift angle; thus the edge angle and the blade angle are the same: 8-10 degrees.
I sharpen the back of the blade to a 20 degree edge angle (10 degree lift angle and 10 degrees blade angle).

Thinking out loud:
To use the leather wheel and your clock-face angle system I would I hone with using the lift angles rather than the edge angles. If so, then I may have have inadvertently doing this wrong by raising the blade too high and rolling the edges. Please set me straight.

 

[ezeltje71]

I own an edge pro and a Tormek T7, true the edge pro system will give a finer result then the tormek. The Tormek will give an above standard result and also sharpen almost any other tool you can imagine. Both systems require practice before you get the result you want and even the leather honing wheel can be mastered.
When you are a patient person only sharpening knifes seeking perfection, buy an edge pro. For everybody else I would recommend the Tormek.

Cheers