Edge refurbishing method on YouTube. Your thoughts?

[M3mphis]

[video=youtube;RP-8g_QLBjU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP-8g_QLBjU[/video]\

Check out this video. What do you think of the methods? Expert or pretender?

 

[Operator1975]

That's pretty much everything u don't want to do In Sharpening an axe.

 

[moosecreektrails]

That's pretty much everything u don't want to do In Sharpening an axe.

Like What?

Expert is a big label. Innovative, maybe a adjustable post to change angles, can,t argue with the results,Just wish he would work on his chopping, on some of his other posts:thumbdn:

I and others who use axes,Have been using a makita belt sander, stoning the edges,then a leather belt on a 1x30 sander,Fast,sharp,and never had a problem,But I am no expert.IMHO

URL=http://s1241.photobucket.com/user/Doug_Olive/media/Axepictures010_zps45842f01.jpg.html]

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[Square_peg]

Pretender. Just like most of his videos. He shouldn't be rolling the head like that. And the bevel should extend further into the bit at the center than at the heel and toe - like Moosecreek's does.

 

[M3mphis]

Like What?

Don't sell yourself short, Moose. Your method is far superior to that joke of a YT video.

First of all, you are using this "compass method" to determine where to set the pivot for your grinder. Then you are using your brain to figure out the bit shape. Not to mention that you are starting with a bit that has a good curvature to it. In that video he uses the bit shape, which has been used and ground down, to determine the pivot point. Then he uses the pivot point to determine the curvature of the bit. That has zero merit, whatsoever. That's a circular process in its purest form.

Then this wranglerstar guy puts on a steep, singe V shaped bevel and calls it awesome. It's not awesome. It's a friggin joke for a chopping axe. You need to smooth down the transitions in the bevel, like Moose does.

Pretender. Just like most of his videos. He shouldn't be rolling the head like that. And the bevel should extend further into the bit at the center than at the heel and toe - like Moosecreek's does.

Exactly, another huge problem with his method.

He also states that his belt sander won't create enough heat to destroy the temper. Ridiculous. He states that if you turn the steel blue, you've created too much heat and ruined the temper. Sorry, but that's terrible advice. The temper would have been ruined long before you get to blue.

It's just frustrating to see so many people pretending to be authorities on topics that they are just barely delving into. If you are going to produce tutorials, you shouldn't be leading people astray. That guy has a lot of followers, though. I guess most people can't see through the facade to see that he's just a guy making it up as he goes along. Good for him for chasing his dreams of homesteading, but I wish he'd stop acting like a tried and true expert on every category he makes a video on.

 

[jpeeler]

^What Memphis said. When I watched this a while ago, I kept wondering why he ground the bit based on the profile he started with?

I think some of what he does is really great, and he makes very pretty videos, but the dude's just starting out and already writing his memoirs.

John

 

[Steve Tall]

...He shouldn't be rolling the head like that. And the bevel should extend further into the bit at the center than at the heel and toe - like Moosecreek's does.

Seems that rolling the head like that will shorten the toe and heel beyond the pencil line "target".
And why does he go for a fixed bevel (like a brand new Fiskars) instead of convex?

Moosecreek's sander looks like it can do a better job and give a convex edge.

I agree with previous comments that the line drawn for the edge radius seems arbitrary and will depend on unrelated factors such as the starting shape of the bit, the poll length, etc.


Edited to add: Don't get me wrong, on the Expert to Pretender spectrum, I myself am definitely closer to Pretender.

 

[A Visitor]

I have to admit that I watch the Wranglerstar videos and envy him living his dream. But lol, it does not take long to see he is often "repeating" what he has seen on line or heard of without any real practical experience. Some of my favorites were - comparing three axes of different weights and handle lengths to find the "Best" axe. In that vid he went on about a loose handle on a new axe like it was the end of the world. The vid where he relocated a daytime trapped skunk was troubling also. I don't think I would have taken any chances with kids and dogs around- would have destroyed the skunk. I also don't see any vids on livestock, cant imaging any homesteader would survive long without chickens/ rabbits/ goats or hunting....maybe these people are vegetarians. More likely those subject are not politically correct.
Previous posts handled my problems with the radius/ grinding and bevel in the vid.

 

[G-pig]

I watched a video of his about making an axe handle as well. After making several dozen handles myself, I guess I can say that I wouldn't go about it how he did.

All this withstanding, I guess I can't blame a guy for not understanding axes who probably doesn't actually use them for much. There isn't much feedback when all you're doing with them is things that a chainsaw can't do or what have you. It's very complicated and time consuming to figure out, and it's easy enough to pass things off as good enough when you really don't have a "good" reason to do otherwise.

 

[moosecreektrails]

OK,Pretender,Just wanting a clarification from Operator (That's pretty much everything)He did have nice stonesand it did shave.
Might be of use for sharpening a Pulaski or pick mattock for chopping roots,with his angle?And it is a step up from a bench grinder,most people use.

I do use a large belt sander to thin a axe shape,Careful not to get it to hot,If you cant hold your hand on it you got it to hot.

With the set up I use, set with my micro edge first,then I grid my primary down to it,thinning out my micro edge till its all most gone.
With this set up you can't watch your lines.

Thanks Memphis on the kind words, but I am a pretender in training

 

[jefroman]

Ditto the above about 'wranglerstar' trying to appear expert at pretty much everything... early on, his videos were more humble and generally informative, without coming across as the authority. but for a while now it's seemed he is sort of riding his popularity and aiming for sentimentality with most of what he films. good for him owning a homestead though i suppose.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

What I posted on BCUSA when a member posted that video:

There is so much fundamentally wrong with this video that it's not even funny. Horrible horrible advice. There is no reason for the curvature of the bit being "incorrect" whatsoever, other than it not being a perfect section of a circle with a radius defined as 1/8" back from the poll, which is an absolutely arbitrary and flawed argument to make. Likewise, the angle used with such a jig will change as the axe is sharpened, so as the bit diminishes in length, the angle will increase. Lastly, he boasts of how consistent the grind is. Totally false. He ground more at the heel and toe, and you can see it clear as day. This is common since the operator often hesitates during the reversal of direction since one must (for a brief moment) come to a complete stop before reversing. That means, as well, that the edge angle at the heel and toe is thicker, so it's not a consistent angle like he was shooting for. If you grind it inconsistently on the jig you'll get variations in edge angle. What he needs to do is think more about the tasks he's performing with the tool and adjust his tuning based on that rather than worrying about getting a flawless bevel. The coarser your grit the thinner you should err vs. your desired final angle, then slightly increase your edge angle as you work progressively finer to ensure that you're making contact with the edge itself, terminating with your desired edge angle. Unless you have a custom made jig for each and every edged tool to match its precise bladeform, you are simply not going to get a perfect angle.

</rant>

I could go into more detail, but that'd take more time than it even really justifies. Note that the thickening of the edge at the heel and toe of the edge comes from overgrinding as well, rather than proper variation of angle over the length of the edge. Etc. Etc.

 

[halfaxe]

I looked at one of his chainsaw videos quite a while back and thought the same thing, so I hadn't watched him since then. I was impressed when he tore apart the dozer though and put it back together, because I am mechanically inept or lack the desire to do something like that.

 

[Treetop]

First post and a total newbie to axe and hatchet sharpening. Is there a tutorial, either on this forum or on YouTube, that explains the correct way to sharpen these implements? I'm hungry for knowledge because Mrs. Treetop and I will be retiring soon and moving to our 25 acres in the Brazos river valley of central Texas.

As a machinist/ tool and die maker since 1974, I'm particularly intrigued by moosecreektrail's axe sharpening fixture displayed in post #3...

There seems to be lots of information out there, but I need to know the right way! Thanks for your time, I have already learned quite a bit, just from lurking here at the Axe, Tomahawk, and Hatchet forum. Tt.

 

[Win3855]

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment...lications/fs_publications/99232823/page15.cfm This will get you started.

 

[jpeeler]

And of course the associated video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz3rs-eaN3E

 

[thunderstick]

My thoughts after watching the video and reading the comments:
1. His method of finding the radius is OK once you first determine where you want the heel and toe to be. He does not explain that if you want the heel and toe to be different then you need to establish those points first before you draw the radius.

2. Using a V-angle is OK to first establish the radius line of the bit as its a bit easier to get the radius line that way...however after the radius line is obtained then the angle should be convexed and blended into the cheek geometry to eliminate all abrupt transitions.

3. I do not prefer to file the high center way back into the cheek but keep a more consistently honed edge. I'll sacrifice a little penetrations to eliminate sticking. My focus is to hone in far enough to get the edge thickness I want and then I focus on blending the profile into smooth transitions.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The radius finding method is totally arbitrary and only serves as a means of creating a pivot location for the jig, whether this is used in the USFS approach or that in the OP. Not all axes will have a bit curvature that's based on a circle with the central point lying on the head. Many will have that point located somewhere out in the space well behind the poll, but it's not as convenient to use such a long arm on a jig.

 

[moosecreektrails]

First post and a total newbie to axe and hatchet sharpening. Is there a tutorial, either on this forum or on YouTube, that explains the correct way to sharpen these implements? I'm hungry for knowledge because Mrs. Treetop and I will be retiring soon and moving to our 25 acres in the Brazos river valley of central Texas.

As a machinist/ tool and die maker since 1974, I'm particularly intrigued by moosecreektrail's axe sharpening fixture displayed in post #3...

There seems to be lots of information out there, but I need to know the right way! Thanks for your time, I have already learned quite a bit, just from lurking here at the Axe, Tomahawk, and Hatchet forum. Tt.

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm08232327/

http://blueandwhitecrew.org/resources/tips/sharpeningaxes.php#measuringbevelangles

I do it a little different,Will post some pictures on my Tuatahi Grind this week.

FortyTwoBlades is correct,I always check my pivot point,and adjust it to get the desired bit circumference,It not perfect but it works on most I do.
And when grinding,the angle increases as you grind,so as you grind check your angles and adjust.

I sometimes use the Tuatahi jig,the file drops at a constant angle.

 

[nickzdon]

I just ran across the USFS pamphlet showing the mod for Moosecreektrails belt sander rig. Alas, I'm in the middle of moving and I can't remember which box it's in or if I even saved if from the trash. I'm sure you can obtain it from the USFS if you emailed them. Always wanted to try it. Cool to see it in action!

Wranglerstar's axe videos are fraught with misinformation. I actually emailed him and offered to give him some more factual information for his 'how to choose an axe' video and never got a response.