Edge refurbishing method on YouTube. Your thoughts?

I found the aforementioned sanding jig instructions. http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm08232327/ I've always been interested in jigs for sharpening, and build a magnetic one to hold DMT files, but was never totally happy with it. I just freehand my sharpening now.

It seems as though wranglerstar may have got some of his information from this pub. But as Moosecreek shows, there's a bit more work that needs to be done to the edge to make a great chopper.

Personally, there are as many ways to sharpen an axe as there are axe owners. Everyone's got their own way of doing things. Which is great. Although the spread of misinformation troubles me.
 
nickzdon said:
...It seems as though wranglerstar may have got some of his information from this pub...
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Except that the USFS method determines the location of the pivot point in order to keep the existing curvature of the edge, instead of changing the curvature.

fig10.jpg

For some single-bit axes, such as the Rockaway, Hudson Bay, or Jersey, the blade's arc is not parallel to the handle. The following process, which requires a pencil compass (figure 7), will allow you to determine the correct position for the pivot point based on the blade's curvature.

Step 3: Place the compass point at the pivot point and make sure that the pencil follows the curvature of the blade’s edge when you pivot the compass (figure 10).

Figure 10—Place the compass point at the intersection
of the arcs and sweep the pencil over the blade to make
sure the pencil follows the curvature of the
blade's edge when you pivot the compass.
When the compass scribes the curvature of the blade correctly,
mark and center punch the spot where the arcs intersect.

from http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm08232327/
 
Thanks for the link to that pub. Grinder mods looks cool. Will have to keep a look out for a used grinder or set up a Harbor freight cheapie.
 
I would not consider any axe information authoritative just because a government agency promotes a certain method. The free market economy consistently develops technology and ingenuity that surpasses the government. I pay a lot more attention to information published by axe manufacturers or experienced woodsmen in the free market than information published by a not for profit agency i.e. an agency that does not need to be efficient with time or money.
 
thunderstick said:
I would not consider any axe information authoritative just because a government agency promotes a certain method. The free market economy consistently develops technology and ingenuity that surpasses the government. I pay a lot more attention to information published by axe manufacturers or experienced woodsmen in the free market than information published by a not for profit agency i.e. an agency that does not need to be efficient with time or money.
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I hear ya. The US Forest Service is not infallible. Just consider all the damage done by decades of misguided fire policies.
 
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The US Forest Service is not infallible, true. And of course the private sector also gets (us) into trouble sometimes, precisely because they are bound by the profit incentive and place their bottom line above all else.
 
Not trying to start a political debate... What in the pub posted conflicts with private industry ?
From where I stand it appears the forest service / firefighters and timbersport guys are just about all there is out there using hand tools. Unless you mean historical woodworkers and timber framers- doubt anyone would confuse what they do as " efficient with time or money".
Regardless of policy, the use of a belt filer in a similar manner to hand filing seems to make perfect sense when tasked to maintain quantities of hands tool after deployment at a fire as an example. JMO
 
I'm simply saying that many people quote the USFS manual as the final authority on the sharpening and use of an axe--such as the high center must be laid back significantly more than the edges. What is the purpose of having a high center to prevent sticking if you remove most of it at the point where the axe will most likely bind? However since its in the USFS manual it must be the best and only way to sharpen an axe ...
 
thunderstick said:
I'm simply saying that many people quote the USFS manual as the final authority on the sharpening and use of an axe--such as the high center must be laid back significantly more than the edges. What is the purpose of having a high center to prevent sticking if you remove most of it at the point where the axe will most likely bind? However since its in the USFS manual it must be the best and only way to sharpen an axe ...
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There is a big incentive to file the axe that way. Reducing an axe's tendency to bind is redundant if the axe isn't shaped well enough to penetrate the wood fibers. an axe sharpened radially with no work done to reduce the thickness of the face is a splitting axe. conversely, the deepest penetrating axes are the ones filed very far up the face. Yes, that reduces the function of the high centerline, and elongates the flat face and could increase binding. But a certain amount is necessary for a well cutting axe. I think the forest service's advice in that respect provides a good, conservative model for filing an axe to be at least fairly useful in cutting across grain.

I still choose to judge every piece of axe related advice individually, and the forest service is certainly not the end all be all. But they have some good material.
 
Again--I'm not saying the USFS largely has good or bad information--I just don't consider them the final authority on the subject. In fact most anything published by the government I view skeptically unless it can be verified by other sources. People who do things for a living and are evaluated on their performance find the most efficient way to make things happen or they don't succeed at what they do. In timbersports also, its all about profiling for time and efficiency and not about following the guidelines of the USFS manual. If an axe is properly manufactured for felling it won't need a lot of material removed from the high center. If its not properly profiled it may need material removed everywhere along the bit and up the cheeks. An axe needs to cut efficiently and not stick--not either or. I can tell you that mine slice quite well and don't stick and they are not laid way back up the high center. Most of the folks who use my axes or see them in service indicate they have seen none perform better. I work them and use them to the point where I believe they get the most efficiency for their use and overall profile.

I completely agree with your last sentence.
 
wdmn said:
The US Forest Service is not infallible, true. And of course the private sector also gets (us) into trouble sometimes, precisely because they are bound by the profit incentive and place their bottom line above all else.
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I agree to a point. Although, the private sector has no authority from which to force its will upon society. The people have the right to choose the companies to whom they lend their support. We all have a responsibility to support those who do good, or at least "do no harm." We are woefully bad at that as society cares much more about price than anything else due to shortsightedness and consumer greed. So I place much blame back at the feet of the collective consumer.

Now what happens when those huge "profit above all else" corporations largely run the government through lobbying, special interests, kickback earmarks, etc and also have a firm foothold in the hearts and minds of the mentally-lazy, collective community by appealing to their vanity and greed? Well, that would be the shitstorm we are in right now.

That's way off topic, but I, for one, don't mind.
 
Not sure I have a whole lot new to add to where this has gone, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents as someone who has worked in the woods for a few years with folks from the 'private sector' ie Loggers/timbermen, as well as spent years working for various Gov trail crews based primarily in Wilderness, and thereby using just traditional hand tools.

It goes both ways--I've chopped alongside guys in the timber biz who not only seemed to have no clue how to file an axe, but also no idea how to swing one. Seemed to pretty much just haplessly hack their way through a log. Now the same can be said of some FS trail crews, really just depends on not only the amount of time one has spent chopping / maintaining an axe, or who your boss is, but more so on how interested you are in doing a job well. That's my experience anyway. Good discussion all round
 
M3mphis said:
...Now what happens when those huge "profit above all else" corporations largely run the government through lobbying, special interests, kickback earmarks, etc and also have a firm foothold in the hearts and minds of the mentally-lazy, collective community by appealing to their vanity and greed? Well, that would be the shitstorm we are in right now.

That's way off topic, but I, for one, don't mind.
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Considering this larger picture makes me want to cut some slack to a guy who moves to a homestead and makes some mistakes in his free "how-to" videos. ;)
 
I can cut the guy some slack, but the way he has presented his techniques recently makes it seem like he thinks his way is the only way/best way. People watching these vids will probably take them as gospel, not research other techniques and seek more advice. That's dangerous and counterproductive.

John
 
What is the best method to fix a bad grind? If using the compass method on a axe that has a bad grind on the toe and foot won't this cause the grind to continue to be off? Also would building a different arm to lower the pivot point or the angle oft he axe would this help with using this belt sander method?
 
M3mphis said:
Now what happens when those huge "profit above all else" corporations largely run the government through lobbying, special interests, kickback earmarks, etc and also have a firm foothold in the hearts and minds of the mentally-lazy, collective community by appealing to their vanity and greed? Well, that would be the shitstorm we are in right now.

That's way off topic, but I, for one, don't mind.
Click to expand...

I agree to a point as well. Not saying you are, but let's not make this into a false dichotomy; it's not an either or, both structures can and should be critiqued (and so can mindless consumers). That said the mentally-lazy majority exists in large part because the private sector has an interest in such a population existing, and actively participates in ensuring that the population remains that way.

And that's what I was trying to get at; in theory, the government is supposed to be interested in the good of the public mind and therefore the good of the minds of its citizens, whereas the private sector has a bottom line of profit and so its interest in minds coincides with this only, its mandated pursuit. Not even in theory does the private sector have the good of the public mind as an aim.

That's how I see it from my limited perspective at least.
 
A Visitor said:
Not trying to start a political debate... What in the pub posted conflicts with private industry ?
From where I stand it appears the forest service / firefighters and timbersport guys are just about all there is out there using hand tools. Unless you mean historical woodworkers and timber framers- doubt anyone would confuse what they do as " efficient with time or money".
Regardless of policy, the use of a belt filer in a similar manner to hand filing seems to make perfect sense when tasked to maintain quantities of hands tool after deployment at a fire as an example. JMO
Click to expand...
Couldn't have said it any better, Thanks
Have a great new year all.
Moose
 
Thanks to Win3855, jpeeler, moosecreektrails and others who took the time to answer my question re: the correct way to refurbish an edge!

I can already see that I'm going to be spending lots of time on bladeforums! Tt.
 
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