Educate me on the Puukko.

KBA, thanks for this update and the links you have provided basically shares what you have learned. I and i'm sure others much appreciate this.
I too, have become fascinated by Scandinavian knives especially those of Finnish origin. I'm using "Scandinavian' as a North American. I have been told than Finns do not consider them selves as "Scandinavian" but more connected to people of the Urals.
It's a whole new body of knife knowledge, not connected at all to what i know of American, British & German knives, all of which bear some resemblance to each other.
kj
 
KBA said:
I have to thank you all, especially Kamagong (Christian) & Frederick89 (Federico) for the help. After messaging these gentleman several times with questions on Finnish knives, I have found that I am hooked, and am really enjoying educating myself on these wonderful blades.

My first 2 are on order. While neither will be a Tommi, I am just as excited. It will be 6 months to a year, but I believe well worth the wait. I'll get a Tommi one day.

The maker is Sami Länsipaltta and I encourage you to look at his work. We are working out the details. As of now, I recommend him purely on personality and communication skills. He seems to be a great guy with a heart for family and knife making, his photography skills and drawings are just as impressive.

I will be getting 2 like the one one pictured below, though, one will be a curly birch.

https://flic.kr/p/rnqiy7


http://www.lansipaltta.fi/portfolio/

https://nordiskaknivar.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/sami-lansipaltta/



Another maker that I am interested in is, Martti Malinen, specifically his "Kuhankeittäjä."
Thanks again to Frederick89 for the following info:

"One of his puukkos is called "Kuhankeittäjä" which is the Finnish name of the golden oriole
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_golden_oriole

the european species related to the american Baltimore oriole you should see in summer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_oriole

Golden oriole is the "flag bird" of the Southern Savonia, the region where Malinen lives. Here is the puukko."
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fwDa-p6MId4/UXFQVxHzRsI/AAAAAAAAAcI/1W8dMs0KFCI/s1600/20.Malinen.jpg

https://nordiskaknivar.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/malinen-koivumaki-puukko-review/

https://nordiskaknivar.wordpress.com/2014/01/10/martti-malinen/


I'll be sure to update when mine arrive.

This has been a wonderful thread and I hope it continues.

On a side note I have to thank others like Jon Slider who have contributed to my education on Finnish knives in other threads as well.
Click to expand...

i also recently went through this same sort of vision quest, trying to search for my first for-real puukko. thanks for the info on Sami. i did not have him in my "database". his stacked birch bark handle puukkos are beautiful.

I ended up going back and forth via email with Martti Malinen. he was great to work with. i am currently waiting on a 95 mm birchhill model. can't wait.

cheers brett.

**EDIT: ha. i just looked at the review Frederico did that you linked to and it is the same knife.
 
kootenay joe said:
KBA, thanks for this update and the links ...
It's a whole new body of knife knowledge, not connected at all to what i know of American, British & German knives, all of which bear some resemblance to each other.
kj
Click to expand...

You're welcome good sir. I agree in that it certainly has opened a door of learning. It also has opened a door to learn about the country and culture. It is cool that cutlery can lead to a multi-dimensional understanding of the people when you allow it. For me, that is just as fascinating.

TPVT said:
i also recently went through this same sort of vision quest, trying to search for my first for-real puukko. thanks for the info on Sami. i did not have him in my "database". his stacked birch bark handle puukkos are beautiful.

I ended up going back and forth via email with Martti Malinen. he was great to work with. i am currently waiting on a 95 mm birchhill model. can't wait.

cheers brett.

**EDIT: ha. i just looked at the review Frederico did that you linked to and it is the same knife.
Click to expand...

Nice to hear Im not the only one on a "vision quest."

Sami really has taken the time to email me, which I appreciate. I'll be getting two 85mm blades. The example I linked is a 85mm and it looks incredible imo.

I just emailed Martti Malinen last night. His "Kuhankeittäjä" really is a great connection to the country imo and I may ask him about it, a 200mm Leuku, and a 93mm - 110mm maasepän after reading this post. I wont be able to get all three but i do hope to learn a bit from him. Plus, it is just cool imo talking to the makers.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/980849-Maasepän-puukko



Of course there are two others on my checklist

One with a basket weave sheath and a Tommi

It may take years before I have these.
 
Looked at Martti Malenen and saw a review of one of his knives forged from Ovako "100Cr6." https://nordiskaknivar.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/malinen-koivumaki-puukko-review/

That steel turns out to be:

"Through-hardening bearing steels

Ovako specialises in high-strength through-hardening bearing steels. These grades exhibit high fatigue and wear resistance, good machinability, high hardness and good dimensional stability. A hardness of 60-65 HRC can be achieved through martensitic hardening and tempering, making these steels ideal for bearing products. This distinguishing property package is also suitable for other market segments and applications that have the same high quality requirements as the bearing industry.

100Cr6 type (SAE 52100)
Used mainly for small and medium-sized bearing components.
The 100Cr6 steel grades have high fatigue strength
and hardness, and good wear resistance. There are several
different versions of this grade."
 
Thomas Linton said:
Looked at Martti Malenen and saw a review of one of his knives forged from Ovako "100Cr6." https://nordiskaknivar.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/malinen-koivumaki-puukko-review/

That steel turns out to be:

"Through-hardening bearing steels

Ovako specialises in high-strength through-hardening bearing steels. These grades exhibit high fatigue and wear resistance, good machinability, high hardness and good dimensional stability. A hardness of 60-65 HRC can be achieved through martensitic hardening and tempering, making these steels ideal for bearing products. This distinguishing property package is also suitable for other market segments and applications that have the same high quality requirements as the bearing industry.

100Cr6 type (SAE 52100)
Used mainly for small and medium-sized bearing components.
The 100Cr6 steel grades have high fatigue strength
and hardness, and good wear resistance. There are several
different versions of this grade."
Click to expand...

I asked Martti about that steel. i asked him why he chose to use it in his knives. i think the answer was essentially "proximity". he said the plant was right down the road from him. obviously, he likes the steel too. He wouldn't use it if otherwise.
 
KBA said:
You're welcome good sir. I agree in that it certainly has opened a door of learning. It also has opened a door to learn about the country and culture. It is cool that cutlery can lead to a multi-dimensional understanding of the people when you allow it. For me, that is just as fascinating.



Nice to hear Im not the only one on a "vision quest."

Sami really has taken the time to email me, which I appreciate. I'll be getting two 85mm blades. The example I linked is a 85mm and it looks incredible imo.

I just emailed Martti Malinen last night. His "Kuhankeittäjä" really is a great connection to the country imo and I may ask him about it, a 200mm Leuku, and a 93mm - 110mm maasepän after reading this post. I wont be able to get all three but i do hope to learn a bit from him. Plus, it is just cool imo talking to the makers.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/980849-Maasepän-puukko



Of course there are two others on my checklist

One with a basket weave sheath and a Tommi

It may take years before I have these.
Click to expand...

meant to link to this in my above post too. you can tell Martti has a passion for making knives. he freely offered a lot of information, which is nice, since i tend to play "20 questions" with a maker i am unfamiliar with.

i think that also comes from his business. he is a "teacher" of sorts, it seems. he hosts folks on his property and it looks like he offers blacksmith classes. you may have posted this above (i know frederico did earlier in this thread)....
http://goosemeadow.fi/en/en
 
Malinen is first and foremost an axeman, he once said to me "I could leave for the woods without a puukko, but not without an axe. That's the real bush tool". Some even consider him to be the best axe smith of Finland.

As for the 100Cr6 he chose it not only because it was the easiest to get, but since he had used it with satisfaction for many years and, being able to get it in 50-70 mm bars, he can use it also for axes.
He has also participared in the creation of HardeniteV steel
http://brisa.fi/steel/hardenitev.html

which aimed to be an improvement of the old 0,8% C german steel. He calls it a nice steel, but prefers to stick to 100Cr6.

He has been the forging teacher of at least two other smiths that I know well: Pasi Hurttila and Ilkka Seikku.
 
Frederick89 said:
Malinen is first and foremost an axeman, he once said to me "I could leave for the woods without a puukko, but not without an axe. That's the real bush tool". Some even consider him to be the best axe smith of Finland.

As for the 100Cr6 he chose it not only because it was the easiest to get, but since he had used it with satisfaction for many years and, being able to get it in 50-70 mm bars, he can use it also for axes.
He has also participared in the creation of HardeniteV steel
http://brisa.fi/steel/hardenitev.html

which aimed to be an improvement of the old 0,8% C german steel. He calls it a nice steel, but prefers to stick to 100Cr6.

He has been the forging teacher of at least two other smiths that I know well: Pasi Hurttila and Ilkka Seikku.
Click to expand...

intersting stuff. thanks.
 
Federico - thank you again for the info good sir. Malinen's axes have also caught my attention.

I have a few blades in 52100 and enjoy the steel. The Puukkos I have on order will be in 80CRV2, which I have read good things on.
 
,"I am an idiot and limit myself usually to flat and or flat ground with convex edge fixed blades. I've had everything from a custom Marlowe puukko and the Skookum bush tool to the Mora. Today, Moras are everywhere at home. Tool box, tackle box, closet. All the other scandis are gone."
me too.
i do have an Aito Birch Bark for dressup.lol
the Mora's for less money do what ever any of the high dollar puukkos do.
 
markv said:
,"I am an idiot and limit myself usually to flat and or flat ground with convex edge fixed blades. I've had everything from a custom Marlowe puukko and the Skookum bush tool to the Mora. Today, Moras are everywhere at home. Tool box, tackle box, closet. All the other scandis are gone."
me too.
i do have an Aito Birch Bark for dressup.lol
the Mora's for less money do what ever any of the high dollar puukkos do.
Click to expand...

This may be true, but for me it is more than just having a tool. I wanted a puukko, yes to work, but also as connection to the history of the knife itself. I suppose I am a purist of sorts. Nothing against the Mora at all, but is my understanding that it is not Finnish. Please correct me if Im wrong.

At the same time my bike can get me to work and it would be more healthy if I did ride it to work, but I own a car. We all sometimes want more than we actually need.

Just my opinion
 
markv said:
the Mora's for less money do what ever any of the high dollar puukkos do.
Click to expand...
Moras are Swedish and aren't puukkos; if you've tried only factory made puukkos with flat section blades I agree you can't tell that big difference.

To undestand the big difference in cutting and preciseness you don't need to go straight to customs. A YP-Taonta is more than enough and goes for less than the Aito.
 
Frederick, so you are saying that if i tried cutting/carving wood with the 2 knives you show, the YP would cut with less pressure and more precisely than the Mora ? If so, Why, as both will start off being shaving sharp ? Is it the higher grind line on the YP that makes the difference ?
kj
 
As for the bite, it's the combination of higher grind and slightly more acute edge. As for the preciseness is a matter of blade section: rhombic really does the difference when carving hollow surfaces, but generally I've found it more precise in the amount of wood to be removed.

It's a bit difficult to explain in words, but plain clear once tried.
 
Maybe I've found better words to explain what I mean. Moras and flat section blades ae "biters", rhombic puukkos are "gliders".

On soft woods with the biters you actually feel the blade going into the wood and separating the fibers. With the gliders you can't almost feel it, the blade just skates into the wood and there goes the curls.

On hard woods both geometries can be felt biting and separating the fibers, but with the same different manners.
 
Juho Lammi is one of the most famous and influential Finnish knife-smiths. His son, Kustaa Lammi, 1901-2001, became equally influential and revered. There is a bit of information about J & K Lammi here: https://nordiskaknivar.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/kustaa-lammi/
I recently acquired the largest Puukko i have seen and it was made by Kustaa Lammi. The overall length of this knife is 12 3/4" with a 7 3/4" blade. Large Puukkos such as this one are not strictly traditional as locals preferred blades up to about 5", but were made for export as others, particularly North Americans, like big knives.
Finnish blade-smiths have been taught how to sign their name in such a 'loopy' script that it is often impossible to read. Then they scrawl this curvy scribble into a very narrow fuller to further obfuscate.
I am showing this large Puukko with 2 others. The gold color one is 5 1/2" OAL and is also a Kustaa Lammi knife.
The 3rd knife is another very traditional Puukko pattern referred to as a "Tommi" with the blade having a rhomboid cross section, along with a Birch wood handle oval in cross section, and no guard. It is signed on the blade flat just under the spine but i cannot read it.







edge is finished to the very tip which is very Finnish !





Here is the backside of the sheath which is 11" in length. The leather is very dry and rough feeling.



5 1/2" K. Lammi:



7 1/2" Tommi Puukko:





I hope the Puukko fans chime in with any additional info relating to these knives or to correct anything might need it.
What can be done to help prevent further deterioration of the sheath ?

thanks, kj
 
All three very nice puukko. I have all three of them (along with about 300 others). But, the bottom one is not a Tommi, wrong style. It is most likely a Jarvenpaa or one of the other many makers working circa 1930-70's. Here's a link to the Tommi page. Notice the major differences in style between yours and the true Tommi style which has been basically unchanged for a zillion years. Tommi, I believe, have only been signed with the initials of the maker hot stamped on the blade. Yours is signed "Made in Finland" on the lower blade flat and does have a signature (unreadable) on the top blade flat. (I copied it to my hard drive and enlarged it)

http://www.kainuunpuukko.com/index.php?page=1&lang=2

Still, all three are great puukko which anyone would be proud to have in their collection. For the sheathes, the only thing I can suggest might be a little Rem Wax or paste shoe polish.

Rich (old puukkophile)
 
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