EllisCustomKnifeworks - Order now shipped 07/02

Im not a stalker! Just wanting to help a friend out. Wow.
 
Kathryn Ellis said:
Stuart -- In post #13 above, you indicated that my e-mail to you was "defensive" and that I suggested you were unreasonable. I am posting the message I sent you below so that others can make their own judgment about whether I made any implication that you were being unreasonable.
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Kathryn, the 2 paragraphs of excuses read to me as defensive. The fact that you emphasized that you only work on the business on Saturdays and Sundays and include "(as noted on our website)" furthered that assumption. Also, that this was the first email with anything other than an "I'll look into it" sentiment (except for the invoice) and occured after filing my dispute led me to conclude it is defensive.
Of course I have read your website and noticed how you took down your phone number which is on the same page as this information you conveyed.
The fact that you explained yourself for 2 paragraphs about being so busy "seemed" to me (I did say "seeming" not "is") that I was lacking some understanding of your predicament.

Kathryn Ellis said:
Furthermore, in post #14 you said that my message about the tracking number read as "snarky."
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What I said was this:

SBranson said:
I'm not sure if there's a tone but it read like it was snarky.
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As with the use of "seem", here I am qualifying my responses very clearly as subjective perception as I know it is difficult to know for sure the tone on the internet.

I read it this way (as did my wife) because of your use of the quotes and the manner in which you phrased this sentence:

Kathryn Ellis said:
The tracking number is not "working" yet because it has not been scanned in at the FedEx location yet -- I do not know when that will happen, but you should be able to "see" the package today.
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As I explained to you, the reason I asked about the tracking number is that I was led to believe, by your previous emails, that the parcel had been shipped at a much earlier date and thought that you had finally dug up the tracking number for me.
The fact that I came home for 2 weeks half expecting to see the parcel delivered attests to this but of course this is just my experience and not provable.

As far as the claim filing and my acting quickly... well, since you only work weekends, I had 2 days to try and get some information out of you. You had already said 6 days previous that you would ask Darren about a tracking number. Doesn't that imply that the parcel was shipped?

On the 5th after giving you all day to respond to the promise from 6 days previous of a tracking number I wrote this:
Just to let you know that I have only 8 days left before I meet my 45 day maximum to file a paypal dispute. That's 45 days since I paid!
I really hope you have sent this order as I have been extremely put out by your tardiness. I have needed that to set up my heat treating forge and as such am now weeks behind where I should be.
I too am trying to run a business as well as dealing with family and a full time job.

I am going to file the claim in the next couple days to protect my almost $400 (not to mention the money I will lose as the exchange rate has changed against me).

6 days to ask about a tracking number is starting to feel like an insult.

I really hope this has been sent as I need the supplies and cannot afford another 3 weeks to get my money back and re-order from someone else.

Please have the courtesy to actually check if my order has been sent. 37 days and I'm not even convinced that anything other than an invoice has been processed!

The following morning the 6th, I wrote again as I was visibly upset in that previous email. This was the email:

Just so you know I am sympathetic to family crises and understand the initial delay in processing my order but what really irks me is the very poor communication and seeming disregard.
To not know if this order has been shipped and to be told 6 days ago you would ask about a tracking number is terrible customer relations and frankly disrespectful.

A simple email with real information could have made this wait acceptable. The few emails I've received seem to only have been delay tactics.
Don't you use computers? How hard can it be to verify an order?

Kathryn Ellis said:
Then, at 12:42 pm I received another e-mail from you asking "don't you use computers?"
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You are taking this isolated comment out of the clear context shown in the above email. I just couldn't understand why it was so hard to get a straight answer.

Back up to the night before..the end of the first day of the weekend, no email, no tracking number.. I'm pissed off at being treated like this. "BACUSTOMKNIVES" tells me that a filed claim seemed to work so I said "fine" I'll see if it works for me.

Then nothing... crickets all day.. Then the evening comes around and I see that there's still no email ... I'm really pissed now.. I mean I had gone 2 weeks earlier without emails and I wasn't going to let that happen again.

And so you can't mislead everyone here with this:
Kathryn Ellis said:
Then, by 10:00 that evening, you had escalated your dispute to a claim despite the fact that I had sent the first message above to you hours earlier.
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I explained twice that there was a 4 hour delay from the time you sent the message to when it arrived in my inbox. In that 4 hours I figured Sunday was going to pass without any luck so I decided that I will wash my hands of the deal and get my money back and order somewhere else.

Here was my email sent at 7:47 PST.
Another weekend gone and nothing from you again. This is ridiculous. What's happened? Last time I ordered everything went so well. You have so many supporters but this is a sad day.
This is just not right. You have done nothing but stall. I have received no real information other than the invoice. All that indicates is that you got my order. I only keep asking because I haven't gotten even one straight answer yet.

I am fed up and have escalated my paypal dispute to a claim. I cannot wait without any reason and be treated like this any longer. I will try to get my money back and order elsewhere.

I am truly truly disappointed.

You email arrived in my inbox at 10:10 pm PST. Delayed by 4 hours from arriving on my server site. I didn't notice this at first and mistook the tracking number as an error as I couldn't believe that you hadn't shipped the parcel yet.

When I noticed your time stamp and the 4 hour delay I wrote back to you twice explaining why I escalated my dispute to a claim, the reason being that I thought I had gone another weekend with no information and had given up.

It wasn't until the next morning, Monday, that I discovered that in all that time, nothing had been done.


Kathryn Ellis said:
Trust me, I get that you were/are frustrated. As my message to you above indicated, I am fully aware that we fell down on the job. However, I cannot respond to multiple e-mails and package orders at the same time.


The past 5-6 weeks have been very long for Darren and I and we have had a hard time keeping up with orders and with correspondence because of the personal emergency we had to deal with and because of the unusually large number of orders we received at the end of December and in January. We have shut the business down for two weeks to try to get caught up.

We are not perfect -- we try our best -- but, the implication that we would try to rip you off is not appreciated.

Sincerely,
Kathryn
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To this Kathryn... I have said many times in my emails that I was sympathetic to your problems but you did say on your site on the 16th (which is now deleted) that you guys were going get caught up then.

My problem all along, until I discovered that the order was never shipped, was the poor communication. Your answers were misleading at best offered no real information. If you had simply replied with something from the above and that no the order hadn't shipped. We wouldn't be here.

As far as this:
Kathryn Ellis said:
but, the implication that we would try to rip you off is not appreciated.
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Well there you go... I don't think I ever implied that... If you are referring to my comment about checking the contents, well that is simply a fact that your delay has put my back to the wall regarding paypal's rules.
If I cancel and something has mistakenly been omitted, I have no recourse.
Seeing the delay to get this, I wasn't prepared to wait for the possibility of a missing item.

I'm truly am sorry things went this way but I did not get anything "real" out of you until this weekend. In fact I didn't get any real answer to the questions I had asked all along, namely if and when it was shipped and a tracking number until Monday morning the 7th.

I am a patient and reasonable guy when treated with respect. I have had good dealings with you in the past and hoped to do so in the future.
 
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Mr. Branson, being on the other side of 50, there is something mentioned here that my father pounded into my head from the time I was in jr. high and working for him that I have not forgot to this day . . . .
communication, communication, communication . . .:thumbup:
Hope everything works out for you & Bill.
Be safe.
 
I'm not sure if you are offering advice to me?.. I think have been very communicative..

The poor communication is ultimately what got us here.

I will not quote Kathryn's emails as I do not have permission but suffice it to say that they are extremely general, the "I'll look into it" variety and very short... UNTIL the paypal dispute.

As I said over and over, just let me know if it has been shipped and if there is a tracking number as I was led to believe that the order went out the week of the 16th.

I was concerned about it being lost or held up in customs... THAT was the actual initial concern in filing a dispute in time.
 
No sir, quite the contrary. If you are running a busines based on deadlines, as you & Bill do, lack of communication can & will break you. One of my clients told me a long time ago if we wanted to remain friends & have a business relationship longer than a few days, I was to always remember this . . . "Don't tell me what I want to hear, tell me what I need to know" .
My apologies to you for my vague statement.
Be safe.
 
Thanks. No problem. I am distressed by all this so I am trying to be very careful with what I say and what I read.

I hate the thought of burning a bridge with Kathryn and Darren as they really are the best stocked place for knifemakers and I had had great dealings with them in the past, so much so that I was willing to spend $133 on shipping to order from them.

I tried and tried to not let it get to me but I work 60 hours a week and have 2 small kids. I am tired so it's difficult to maintain equanimity.
 
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Stuart, I have the same type problem with these folks. I plan on giving it one more day.
No delivery today or any contact, I reckon I'm gonna get noisy and make atrip to the Post Office Monday since I sent payment via USPS.
Al I asked for w as asimple yes or no as to wether or not I would have my order by a certain date. That date has come and gone . I'm screwed!
Bruce Godlesky BirdogForge
 
My condolences.
Please cancel my order. You've had my money since March 10,2011. Please send my money back to me, forthwith.
Thanks you , Bruce Godlesky/BirdogForge
 
I feel your guys pain, my order is over 4 months out and nothing yet. I am screwed it seems. Can not even get my money back from these guys to move forward and order elsewhere.
 
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