Emerson Customer Service

giant1 said:
Holy cow..........

That is really bad. Wonder what the compound interest is on that money over all those years??
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Interesting question. I consulted an attorney friend who suggested that in an effort to get Mr. Emerson to return my money (after it was clear that the knife was not going to be built in any reasonable time frame) that I ask for interest on the money that I'd paid him. At the time of the second certified letter that I sent (remember that this was after over a dozen phone calls, two emails and a previous certified mail letter) I demanded that he pay interested on the money that I'd paid him. This was only reasonable as he'd had the use of it, while I had not. At the time of the second certified letter, some six years after the date delivery had been promised, I asked for (I think it was) 10% compounded monthly, a very reasonable figure and one that is common in such situations. The interest came to $424.33. I asked for a bit more in the second certified mail letter that was sent about six months later as more interest had accrued.

Mr. Emerson returned the money I had paid him but did not pay any interest. I let the matter drop even though (I have been told) it would have been an easy lawsuit to win. The matter left a bad taste in my mouth. I've not written about it because I didn't want to spend any more energy on it, but when I saw Mr. Emerson bragging about the quality of his customer service, I could no longer hold my tongue.

I have discussed this situation before but only in a very few circumstances, such as when a friend told me that they were contemplating buying a knife from him or having him build a custom knife for them, or when another knife maker asked about my experience.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
If the knife ever shows up, the secondary market will take it for cost plus all that interest.
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and then some, probably.

I wasn't around in the knife world in the 90s, but is it safe to assume Emerson knives were popular enough that Emerson could sell a knife easily if the order fell through (even if it's a lefty)? if so, why take the money upfront? I can't imagine paying for a knife before it's finished, unless rare materials are being used or it's some outrageously unique project.
 
I have a moderate collection of custom knives. I've found that some knife makers don't want any money up−front for a custom, some want a deposit and some want it fully paid up−front. The last is the rarest. In any case, I worked out the payment program for this knife so that it would be fully paid for on the date that delivery was promised. I'd not have had any problem if there was a delay as long as I was in communication with the maker or people from his staff. I also have a modest collection of custom guns. One was promised for two years but has not been delivered as yet. It's been nine years but the maker answers the phone, returns phone calls and lets me know what's going on with the build. Such communication did not occur in this case.

The knife was promised for March 1998. I made my first contact with the factory in July 1999. I was told that it would be ready by Christmas.

Over two months after that "new promised date" I phoned and was told there was "no time frame" as to when the knife would be completed.

Eight months later I phoned again and was told that the knife would be ready in five months.

Nine months later I phoned and was told that a date for completion could not be supplied.

Two months later I spoke to Mr. Emerson in person, and he told me that he was "working on that model."

Eleven months later I phoned and was told that Mr. Emerson was on vacation and that this employee had no estimated date of completion, he only knew that Mr. Emerson was "working on them."

Ten months later I phoned and the employee said that he'd talk to Mr. Emerson and would then call me back. He did not return the call.

A month later I phoned and the employee told me that "no one was available to ask" at that moment. She said that she'd check and would call me the next day. She did not call.

Two days later I phoned and spoke to this same employee. She said that Mr. Emerson had not been in since my last call so she did not have any information for me.

About two weeks later I phoned and the employee said that the employee who said that she'd return my call had not been in for a couple of days. He said that he'd check with Mr. Emerson and would call me back. Three days later he called and said that Mr. Emerson said that he'd "try and get something done on it." He added that the fact that the knife was to be left handed was part of the reason for the delays. He did not have any idea when it would be done.

Two months later a employee called me and said that Mr. Emerson was "going to make some left handed knives for the Blade Show in June " of that year (about two months down the road). After that show (at which I found out that my knife had not been completed) I phoned and the employee told me that she had no idea when the knife would be done. She suggested that I email Mr. Emerson.

I sent my first email two days later and the second about a month later. Mr. Emerson did not respond to either email. Neither did anyone else at the factory.

About two weeks later, some six years after the promised delivery date; I sent a certified letter to Mr. Emerson, explaining the situation, including the details of the phone calls and conversations. I closed the letter with the question, "I would like to know if you ever plan to complete this order and if so, when I might expect the knife?" I got no response to that letter.

About two months later I sent another certified letter demanding the return of my money, including interest. I got no response.

About a month later I sent another certified letter with similar demands. In response I received a check for $475, a refund of the money that I'd sent for the knife.

I sent a final certified letter demanding that the accrued interest be paid. I did not receive any response.
 
I'd love to hear from Emerson in this thread!! Should be an interesting explanation.
 
giant1 said:
I'd love to hear from Emerson in this thread!! Should be an interesting explanation.
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*shrugs*

"I got a lil' busy, eh?....fuggediboutit"


Seriously though. Crappy experience if true. Wont stop me from buying production ones though.

These types of threads have taken over this forum. Goes to show you should let sleeping dogs lie.
 
NDJeep said:
*shrugs*

"I got a lil' busy, eh?....fuggediboutit"


Seriously though. Crappy experience if true. Wont stop me from buying production ones though.

These types of threads have taken over this forum. Goes to show you should let sleeping dogs lie.
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Production models? They still make those? It's been a long time since I've seen one of these production models you speak of.

-Tye
 
From the website...when asked how production knives would affect custom work.

"It has had a tremendous effect on my custom work and has tried the patience of everyone who has custom orders with me. Fortunately, the vast majority of my customers have understood the situation and are waiting patiently for their custom orders, and I thank them all for that. Very few people ever get the opportunity to undertake deeds that impact others in a positive way. Emerson Knives was given this opportunity and acted on it. We now employ over 40 people full-time and provide employment for literally hundreds of others in the cutlery industry in an auxiliary manner through licensing, manufacturing, retail sales and distribution of our product. Many, many people now pay their mortgages and put their children through school because of what we have done. Did I know this would affect time of delivery on my customs - yes. Did I make a choice - yes. Fortunately we have proven this to be the correct choice and our decision now serves a greater good. Starting, growing and managing a major production facility has taken almost 100% of my time for the last 2 ½ years. I now have trusted and loyal personnel in place to do those jobs for me. This has allowed me to get back in to my custom shop and working on chipping away at my custom orders. We are slow, but steady, and will continue to fill the custom orders as fast as we can. Thank you again for your understanding and patience in waiting for an Emerson Custom knife."




Looks like right there Mr. Emerson realizes and admits to it being challenging. Unless you're actually the two parties involved you dont know the whole story.
 
NDJeep said:
From the website...when asked how production knives would affect custom work.

"It has had a tremendous effect on my custom work and has tried the patience of everyone who has custom orders with me. Fortunately, the vast majority of my customers have understood the situation and are waiting patiently for their custom orders, and I thank them all for that.
Starting, growing and managing a major production facility has taken almost 100% of my time for the last 2 ½ years. [Emphasis Added]
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Any idea when this was put up on the website? I doubt that it was there when this was going on. Based on Mr. Emerson's post in "the other thread" this seems to be very recent news, not something that was going on during the time period of this incident (1996 – 2005). In fact, the article says this occurred during the "... the last 2 1/2 years" If this page was on the website at that time and someone at the factory or Mr. Emerson had directed me to it, I'd have been one of the "patient, understanding" customers. Instead I was handed a run−around, was at times ignored and a couple of times lied to.

NDJeep said:
Looks like right there Mr. Emerson realizes and admits to it being challenging.
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Yep. Except that this refers to a time period between now and perhaps 2007. My incident occurred between 1996 and 2005, at least two years earlier.

NDJeep said:
Unless you're actually the two parties involved you dont know the whole story.
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Quite true. My comments are based on notes I made of phone calls at the time those calls were made and the texts of emails and letters that were sent at the time this incident was occurring. This kind of evidence stands up on a court of law. I have no axe to grind and sat on the incident until Mr. Emerson was bragging about the high quality of his customer service. I probably still have the checks that I wrote over the period that the knife was supposed being built.

I eagerly await Mr. Emerson's version of this incident. Especially in light of the fact the he could not be bothered to return a phone call, an email or a letter when it was going on. That's why I posted it here' in the hopes that finally I'd get a response from him.
 
I don't think that Mr. Emerson even accepts orders for custom knives anymore and has not for some time. My understanding is that you can only get one through his lottery system at a knife show or one of his newer on-line lotteries or auction.

I'm sure he did accept custom orders back in the day (and when you placed your order with him). Also......several years ago knifemakers accepted money up front before your knife was made and it was a more common practice then than it is now. Many knifemakers have fallen into ruin because of this "money up front" practice and that is why we really no longer see it. I'm sure it would be the same with Emerson today and what was practiced a decade ago most likely no longer applies.

As far as your issues with not receiving a custom order................I would not be qualified to even make a statement since I am not a participating party and have absolutely no idea what type of agreement was ever made.
 
we know he makes the customs for shows and has for many years.

i don't see why he just couldn't give those from the shows to those who placed the orders.

im not in a position to tell anyone how to run their business, but this seems to be a simple solution.
 
Another satisfied customer...

Sorry to see this happen to you bro, you should have got your money back and your ordered knife free IMO
 
On 11-3-10 I sent Mr. Emerson an email describing this thread and asked him to comment on it here, on the forum. Here is my email to him.

Mr. Emerson I've started a thread about our dealings when I ordered a custom knife from you several years back. I've not written of the incident before but when I saw your thread boasting of the quality of your customer service had to show another side of it.

I've explained my side of the incident and would appreciate it if you would come to the forum and give yours. Here's the link
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786444


Thanks, Lou Castle
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Rather than reply on the forum, as requested, Mr. Emerson sent me a private reply (and gave me permission to use it here). Here's my response to him. Mr. Emerson's comments are in black. My replies are in blue.

Dear Mr. Castle,

Please point out specifically the boast of customer service in the thread, Emerson calls Bullshxt. What was stated in my post was about warranty service by my company Emerson Knives Inc. and nothing regarding any order of a handmade knife from Emerson Custom Knives which is a separate entity.

There was no such "separate entity" when I placed my order. The fact that it now exists is off−topic for this discussion. That entity did not exist during the incident described in the first post.

The thread that I posted was regarding several posts that surface from time to time from a small group of Emerson bashers who have in the past made various remarks about the knives breaking, failing, falling apart, etc which are, all covered under warranty. My thread was, and I still stand by it, that if the knives were constantly breaking and failing, and being returned to dealers for these reasons, then those knives would be returned to us by dealers, distributors and those customers for either a refund or warranty work. We do not get more than a handful of knives a year back for repair or warranty work. So I will simply say again, where are those knives? Otherwise it is still bullshxt. And I stand by everything in the posts.

Mr. Emerson I didn't send you this email so that you could again tell us how good your knives or your customer service are. I specifically asked you to address the issue of my order of a custom knife and your subsequent HORRIBLE customer service surrounding that order. AGAIN avoided giving it any real notice!

Your issue with Emerson (me) was regarding a custom knife order and although we all have the same phone #, they are separate entities. In fact, your order for the knife was placed with me before Emerson knives, Inc. even existed. So your issue was with me and my handmade custom knives. [Emphasis Added]

I know what I referred to in my initial post Mr. Emerson. Perhaps you think that because you've formed a new company under another name than I did business with, that somehow it excuses your behavior in dealing with me. I'll disagree. I don't give a damn what you call yourself today. YOU are the person that I dealt with and it was YOUR service of a customer (AKA "customer service") that was horrible. I was the person that got the runaround. I was the person you lied to. I was the person you stole from. Hiding behind another company name is nothing but an attempt to deflect responsibility for what you did.

And, I suppose you can say that since they both carry my name, they are indeed related

As would anyone with a shred of common sense!

but, as I stated in the threads, what I was calling Bullshxt on was on all the broken, defective, failing knives that some keep posting about which time and time again just boils down to issues about fit and finish. Which I explained in the thread was not the subject of the callout.

First, since you keep harping on the topic of the quality of your knives, I had the lock on one of your knives fail. It was so bad that it took only the pressure of one finger on the back of the blade to close it against the lock. I have no problem stating that it was repaired and returned in a timely manner by your staff and works fine now but it's an indication of the quality control of your knives in the first place. I've been using lockblade knives for decades and NEVER had one, not even one of the cheapest ones, fail to this degree. The fact that it was repaired speaks to your customer service. The fact that it failed speaks to your quality in the first place. Another epic fail.

Second, Mr. Emerson in the previous thread that this spun off from, it's obvious that you were bragging about two things. First the quality of your knives and second, the quality of your customer service. In that case you limited the discussion of the quality of your customer service to the repair of defective products, and argued that a lack of knives there showed the first. I’m not here to discuss the quality of your repair service, I'm addressing your CUSTOMER SERVICE which is about how you treat your customers. In my case, another epic fail! In this thread I'm ONLY talking about the way that you treated me as much as you'd like to steer the discussion away from that.

Again and again I still say, where are those broken, defective knives that everyone would be returning?

This is off-topic for this thread. I didn't not address this with you in my email to you or this thread and I really don't care.

If you see a relationship between customer service on your custom order with me, and my corporate guarantee to fix broken or defective parts along with one of the most liberal return policies for factory knives in the industry, you are free to make that correlation.

Again, this is not about your repair service. My knife failed and was repaired so my experience with that small part of your customer service was satisfactory. Although I don't think that a lock back knife should EVER fail in this manner. I notice that so far you've completely FAILED to respond to my issue. This is sounding quite familiar; more runaround, more evasion, more diversion.

I on the other hand would say that your issue was with me and my performance and not with Emerson Knives Inc. and the knives produced by my company.

Finally you get to the point of this thread and my many communications with you. The fact that you've opened a new company and repair defective units has nothing to do with this discussion.

I realize that you had a bad experience with me, I apologize for that, and it was resolved, (maybe not to your satisfaction) but it is none the less in the past and over.

No, Mr. Emerson it's not over. You had many opportunities to do the right thing (again, just now in your response to my Email) but instead you (and your staff) chose to lie to me repeatedly, several times you did so, right to my face. And now instead of a true apology, you try to AGAIN just brush me off.

"Customer Service" is NOT just repairing defective products. It's part of everything to do with your customers; sales, service, answering questions, delivering products when they've been promised, and more. Your staff gave me the runaround when I was trying to find out when a knife that had been promised years earlier was going to be finished. On TWO OCCASIONS you looked me right in the eye and lied to me. If you think that's "good" customer service, you are delusional.

Thinking that because it's "in the past" that it's "over" is another mistake. It happened and you never accepted responsibility for it. You had the use of nearly $500 of my money for years and gave me exactly nothing. In short, Mr. Emerson, you stole from me. You profited at my loss and have done NOTHING to make up for it. In fact, until this moment you could not even be bothered to answer an email, a phone call or a letter. The only reason that you did so now is that you needed to defend your business and avoid it getting yet another black eye.

If you think that your four word apology is sufficient after YEARS of the runaround and the lies, again you're delusional. You had the opportunity to do the right thing many times, and just now I gave you another opportunity. But again you fell short. True colors show, sometimes it just takes time.

My Best Regards,

Ernest R. Emerson

Sorry Mr. Emerson, never in my dealings with you after this order was placed, did I feel like I had your "best regards." Like so much of the rest, it's just lip service.
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You know Lou I feel for you and realize you had a less than great experience with the custom you tried to buy from Ernie but in all honesty I don't know what else you expect from him. What more can he do at this point? I mean he gave you your money back, okay a bit slow there, okay way slow but in the end he did it. Then he not only replied to you, which in and of itself is amazing since the dealings with you have been concluded but he did reply and he even apologized for the bad experience you had with him after acknowledging it.

Lets see, admission and apology for the issues, money refunded and deal closed. What am I missing? The old saying, 'beating a dead horse' comes to mind here for me.

STR
 
Lou, your stock just went down in my eyes, when you call a man a delusional liar and a thief in a public forum. I would be most entertained to hear your say your comments to Mr. Emerson in person.
 
STR said:
You know Lou I feel for you and realize you had a less than great experience with the custom you tried to buy from Ernie but in all honesty I don't know what else you expect from him. What more can he do at this point?
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What can he do at this point? He could pay me the interest on the money that he kept for years. Perhaps a heartfelt apology instead of brush-off that was given might help. HIs apology was an afterthought at best. It's obvious from Mr. Emerson's "four word apology" that it was far less important to him to apologize to me than it was to try to salvage his boasts of the quality of his customer service.

STR said:
I mean he gave you your money back, okay a bit slow there, okay way slow but in the end he did it.
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I think he gave my money back ONLY because he was about to be sued and did not want such a court record to exist. He knew that he had no chance of prevailing and that a court would, in all probability force him to pay the interest accrued up to that point. It's not that he finally decided to do the right thing. It's that he was facing a fairly sizeable out-of-pocket expense, nearly double what I'd paid him.

STR said:
Then he not only replied to you, which in and of itself is amazing since the dealings with you have been concluded but he did reply and he even apologized for the bad experience you had with him after acknowledging it.
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His reply was mostly to reaffirm his boasts of the quality of his products and customer service. I wanted the other side of the story to be known by anyone who chooses to do business with him. It's obviously not over, he's still in denial that he did anything wrong, even though he gave a general apology. Notice that there was not a single word from him explaining either the run−around I got from his staff or the lies he deliberately told me.

STR said:
Lets see, admission and apology for the issues, money refunded and deal closed. What am I missing? The old saying, 'beating a dead horse' comes to mind here for me.
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I suggest that you take a look at the first post I wrote in this thread, telling why I wrote about this incident. I was perfectly happy to let sleeping dogs lie until I saw Mr. Emerson telling everyone how GREAT his customer service was. He completely missed the point of my email to him. Out of an email containing over 450 words ONLY 34 of them concerned an apology. There was absolutely no explanation of why he had treated me as he did. The apology was an afterthought at best. He was far more concerned with AGAIN talking about the quality of his repair service, the lack of knives there, indicating the quality of his product.

My experience with Mr. Emerson, his lack of accepting responsibility, his lack of compassion and his continued poor treatment of me, his lies and refusal to return a phone call or an email while the incident was ongoing, is the sort of thing that I think that prospective customers might be interested in. Some might not care, others may.

I think it's important to notice that Mr. Emerson did not deny a single one of my statements about what he or his staff did to me! I know that I'd not want to deal with such a person, not matter how good his products were, but perhaps that's just me. There are plenty of other knife makers with products just as good (many far better) who behave like gentleman, live up to contracts, deliver on time or at least answer emails and phone calls when they fall behind. Men who do not lie or steal.

Perhaps I am beating a dead horse, but as long as Mr. Emerson is out there boasting of the quality of his customer service, I think that people need to hear another side.
 
A.P.F. said:
Lou, your stock just went down in my eyes, when you call a man a delusional liar and a thief in a public forum. I would be most entertained to hear your say your comments to Mr. Emerson in person.
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Somehow I'll have to learn to live with the fact that you think less of me.

Interesting that you made no such comment about Mr. Emerson's idea that his treatment of me was good customer service. Interesting that you said nothing of your estimation of him after he took my money, used it for years, despite me asking for it to be returned, and to top it off, paid me no interest. Interesting that you seem to think (based on your lack of comments) that when he looked me in the eye at a Blade show and said that he was "working on that model" when he was not, that, that was perfectly OK. It's only when I call a spade a spade that I sink in your eyes! Pray tell, what terms would you apply to someone who's done the things he's done to me?
 
STR said:
You know Lou I feel for you and realize you had a less than great experience with the custom you tried to buy from Ernie but in all honesty I don't know what else you expect from him. What more can he do at this point? I mean he gave you your money back, okay a bit slow there, okay way slow but in the end he did it. Then he not only replied to you, which in and of itself is amazing since the dealings with you have been concluded but he did reply and he even apologized for the bad experience you had with him after acknowledging it.

Lets see, admission and apology for the issues, money refunded and deal closed. What am I missing? The old saying, 'beating a dead horse' comes to mind here for me.

STR
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You are not putting enough importance on the time value of money. True he apologized and returned the money back, but the bare minimum should have been WITH INTEREST.

We are not taking about months here, we talking decades, so it's not unreasonable to expect interest.

Of course we are not even talking about the years of worrying and time wasted trying to contact Emerson, these are irreplaceable.

In my view, Emerson needs to return additional sum worth the interest over the years.
 
I agree with Lou. It sounds like he got the shaft and Ernie seems unconcerned. This is not the first time I have heard EKI and customer-no-service (Clark Howard's phrase) discussed in conjunction. I also agree with STR. It's over. Time to move on. Nothing is going to change by moving forward with it. What is that saying? Something to the effect of, "God, grant me the serenity: To accept the things I cannot change; Courage to change the things I can; And wisdom to know the difference." Anyway, just my opinion right or wrong. I wish you the best of luck, Lou.
 
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