Emerson LaGriffe VS HideAwayKnives

The HAK is designed to actually work. It is flat and light so it is not noticed by the wearer when around the neck.
I have not used mine in anger yet, but feel confident that should I need to , the HAK will get the job done.
The hole or capsule that the two fingers fit through are excellent and it is impossible to drop or have it 'taken away' from the owner.
God help anyone that tried to get it off a clenched fist , even a not so strong person.

All in all this is a unique product, designed to do its job well.

hak2.jpg
 
If your low on funds theres a semi-production hak made of 440c for 69.00 it's a Utility Hideaway. 440c is decent with a good heat treat and FS uses either Paul Bos or Chris Reeve to heat treat the hideaways. I think they only make them in certain sizes thou so you have to see what size you need and then check the site.
 
wow, i didn't know that...

they sure don't advertise them much, i wonder why :P

thanks for the input! it could indeed be a nice price range for a first knife.

is it really a cheaper metal? what does it mean, really ? that i will have to get it sharpen alot more ?

i'm really not used to all those standards and get confused really quick.

project
 
440C is an excellent steel.

440C suffers in popularity because it is old and some people confuse 440A with 440C. The difference is night and day. 440C is far superior.
 
I think that when it comes to a knife like this, ie: a small "holdout" knife, it really comes down to the individual user to choose which is best. It's a very personal, specialized knife. What works for one person might not work at all for another.

I picked up a Spyderco SPOT (micarta, VG-10, SE) a week ago, and I can't put the thing down. It fits my hand so well, it feels like it was designed just for me. I don't wear mine as a neck knife, instead I have the sheath tied to a backpack strap, where it's in easy reach while biking home at 1am (those of you with good memories might remember why I'm doing this).

In fact, I like the SPOT so much that last night I ordered 2 more (another SE and one plain) along with a Ronin. The price of the VG-10 black micarta SPOT from Spyderco's outlet is damn good too, much less than the La Griffe or HAK.

That said, the HAK and LaGriffe I'm sure are fine knives, as is the SPOT. But choose what works best for you, not what anyone else says will work for you.

And as much as I like the SPOT, it's not "perfect" for me. However, the possible updated "New SPOT", with a longer, wharncliffe blade sounds like just the ticket.
 
I got one of the Micarta ones, and while I kinda like the handle, it is a bit sharp here and there. The blade shape I found hard to sheath properly because of the very large knob they put in (to aid retention I guess).

Very decent steel and locks well in either forward grip (tip up or down).

Too large as a necker IMO... I can't wait to see the new updated SPOT (and the rumored Pikal folder).

personally, I'm going to steer away from both the HAK and the La Griffe for now, might pick up a RK Little Bird and a SM Bitteroot instead.

As a side note, I believe the utility HAK is 440A according to the website.
 
I think some people got "hideaway knives" confused with "HideAwayKnives": http://www.hideawayknife.com/main.php

Let me say first that the HAK is a wonderful innovation. It also has good support in terms of training, carry options, etc.

That said, let's talk La Griffe. First, If you're unsure about either one, you might try www.bladeart.com. Larry will set you up properly with good advice and an Emerson La Griffe for the best price on the internet. Realize you're getting production grade work in that piece but it is a good piece.

Check out this review of the La Griffe: http://www.donrearic.com/emersonlagriffe.html

Now, to talk about the comments on this thread regarding the La Griffe:
Won't fit my finger--Fred can make one any size you like.
Sheaths: get a real one: http://www.rivercitysheaths.com/ours.html
Steel: Fred makes his Griffes primarily in 1095 but will use other steels at customer request. I like the 1095. It resharpens well and cuts like hell. I treat it with FP-10.

One comment regarded that the HAK is made to do work. That is true. However, with the blade angle, I don't see cutting with much more than the tip of the blade.

The La Griffe (NOT the Emerson) is a working tool. I USE mine a LOT. I've cut kindling, carved plywood, even laid sod with my La Griffe. It is a knife I always have on me. I usually choose to use it first and if it won't suffice, I then choose another tool. I'm not saying the La Griffe is a perfect tool, just that I always try to push the confines of the utility of this little gem of human ingenuity.

The La Griffe palms better than the HAK. The Griffe is used more comfortably in the reverse grip than the HAK. Remember, you only have two fingers grip and no further leverage witht he HAK. The La Griffe is a little longer, but will allow you to slip your thumb over the end of the knife for more power in a reverse grip. The HAK won't let you do this.

The La Griffe may be had with any blade style you like in length up to 3" ("Long La Griffe").

The La Griffe may be had with handles as well. This makes for aslightly thicker package, but makes for better handling. This is impossible with the HAK.

The HAK site is a good reference for carry useage. I have been carrying my Griffe for years now with many of their carry options that I fabricated myself. Very innovative stuff and the kind that people should be aware of.

Fred can make a HAk knife for you if you like: http://www.espace-martial.com/album/details.php?image_id=2409, but I prefer the La Griffe.

As for training: Obtain a copy of Keating's "Pushdagger" video. excellent for the Griffe, and even for the HAK.

I get my Griffes from www.Szaboinc.com or from www.Bladeart.com. Both shops are located in Florida in close proximity to one another. If Laci doesn't have the Perrin knife I need, I call Larry at Bladeart. Both offer prompt, professional sercive.
 
Almadjian said:
Fred can make a HAk knife for you if you like: http://www.espace-martial.com/album/details.php?image_id=2409, but I prefer the La Griffe.
Click to expand...


Hey that's cool! If you want a rip-off copy of an original design that looks like it was made by a 5 year old :rolleyes:

As far as cutting with the tip only...........have you ever tested the HAK?

If not, then you really have no position to speak from.

I have never held the La Griffe, so I won't try to speak from that position.

The HAK fills a certain niche. Some people will like it and some won't. That's the nature of things.
 
Chuck Bybee said:
440C is an excellent steel.

440C suffers in popularity because it is old and some people confuse 440A with 440C. The difference is night and day. 440C is far superior.
Click to expand...


could you go on with the differences please ?

i really don't know much...i'm starting to read some website explanation, but its a bit long to get a hang of !

thanks for your time if you (or someone else) does...

project

edit : someone mentionned that their website says its 440A ... whats wrong with the A grade ? note that this person will basically NEVER pull out the knife (even to open boxes she won't) except if she needs it for what its for, SD.
 
Planterz said:
I think that when it comes to a knife like this, ie: a small "holdout" knife, it really comes down to the individual user to choose which is best. It's a very personal, specialized knife. What works for one person might not work at all for another.
(...)
That said, the HAK and LaGriffe I'm sure are fine knives, as is the SPOT. But choose what works best for you, not what anyone else says will work for you.
Click to expand...


Yes, i totaly agree, but when you live something like 6h drive from the smallest knife shop that wouldn't even have neck knife in stock, it kinds of get really hard to make a choice...

i wish i could get a hand on all of these, and get my wife to do the same, but for now, i just can make ONE choice, cause after that i'll be like a year before i can invest again in a knife. (first year in university is gonna hurt)

Thanks for your opinion about the spot tho ... with the price they go for, it could as well be something i could get a hold on until i can invest good money on a piece i really like. AUS6 is equivalent to 440A right ?
project
 
IMO, the biggest problem with 440A is heat treating.

For example, there are lots of companies who use 440A in their knives. The knives don't hold an edge and 440A gets a bad reputation. Compare this to Kershaw. Many of Kershaw's lower priced models use 440A as a blade steel. However, the Kersahw 440A works well and holds an edge much longer than other companies 440A. Why is there a difference? Kershaw nailed the heat treatment of this steel.

The same situation exists with Spyderco and AUS6. Spyderco makes AUS6 perform better than any other knife company.

Some people say 440A doesn't have enough carbon to be a good blade steel. Compare the carbon in 400A to 5160. I've never heard 5160 called a bad blade steel. ;)

Steel......Carbon.......Chromium.......Manganese.....Moly.....Phosp......Silicon......Sulf.
440A.....0.65-0.75.....16.00-18.00.....1.00..........0.75.....0.04......1.00..........0.03
440B.....0.75-0.95.....16.00-18.00.....1.00..........0.75.....0.04......1.00..........0.03
440C.....0.95-1.20.....16.00-18.00.....1.00..........0.75.....0.04......1.00..........0.03
5160.....0.56-0.64......0.70-.0.90.....0.75-1.00.....----.....0.035.....0.15-0.30......----.
 
I own a LaGriffe and Spot and enjoy them both.

When I was designing the HideAway, Mickey Yurco, Laci Szabo, and Fred Perrin were very influential knifemakers to me.

I spoke with Laci a couple of times, and he gave me the confidence to do something weird at the time. We discussed the Saca Tripas and effectiveness and difference that the angle of the blade makes.

At this same time in the development, most others were telling me to make the handle into a T-handle, which would have

1) Effectively made it like another push daggar.

2) Negated the possibility of hands-free usage, should you need it

So I'm glad I listened to Laci and stayed with what I wanted to do, despite others advising not to.

And in addition to his other qualities, Laci is hot. :D

FrontSight
 
OOOO, a post directly from FS :eek:

well, to keep on this steel discussion, and mainly about heat treatment ...

i worked at an aircraft maintenance company lately, so i understand the different quality of the work that can be done with heat treatment, but how do I check the quality of the seller's heat treat without buying the blade and finding out the hard way ?

How is FS' 440A heat treat ? :D


project
 
Ken,

Whoa there,

The similarities between the HAK and Perrin's work is no "rip off". The "5-year old" dig was immature to say the least. Every piece of Fred's work is pushing the envelope, and entirely thoughtful and purposeful. He doesn't just tinker and spit out a bunch of crap to sell due to his good name ya know.

You TOTALLY misread what I meant regarding the cutting ability of the HAK. I didn't imply that the HAK could ONLY cut with the tip. I merely stated that there are many jobs for which the HAK could only be held in such a way that only the tip could be used, otherwise your knuckles would get in the way.

The "5-year old rip off" you criticized would accomplish some jobs better because the blade is in line with your knuckles.

I personally prefer Perrin's La Griffe because the blade ergonomics allow me to do a lot of fine work with the knife where a more canted blade (HAK) wouldn't.

FYI I have handled a HAK. Maybe you should pick up a La Griffe some day, then we could speak on an even footing. :cool:
 
One thing I don't like about the hideaway is the possibility of getting my fingers hurt when cut onto hard stuff (e.g., a baseball bat). For la griffe, you can just loose ur hand and "let go", the knife may twirl around your index finger. For hideaway, I don't think so. Of course one can argue you don't cut hard stuff in SD, but when in an emergency situation, I may be so freaked out and swing my knife onto anything I can see in front of me. :grumpy:
 
lreed said:
One thing I don't like about the hideaway is the possibility of getting my fingers hurt when cut onto hard stuff (e.g., a baseball bat). For la griffe, you can just loose ur hand and "let go", the knife may twirl around your index finger. For hideaway, I don't think so. Of course one can argue you don't cut hard stuff in SD, but when in an emergency situation, I may be so freaked out and swing my knife onto anything I can see in front of me. :grumpy:
Click to expand...


would those strings they wrap around the "handle" help for that ? I would expect that much.

but you said it, its really for SD so theres more chances you hit something rather soft (like a belly, or a leg) than a hard concrete wall.

but it was one of my last worries about the hak...how well it perfoms when hitting something hard...if it hurts the fingers, etc. But i trust the design enough to think it was considered before.


project
 
Now that is an interesting topic...

Let me start with the simple fact, that I’ve been using LaGriffe (Emerson) for quite couple of years. I’ve also used Fred’s LaG with straight edge. Both work, however I’ve used it mainly for string/wire/cloths cutting so I prefer EKI execution. The edge was not impressive maybe, but I’ve re-sharpened it at 22deg so it was a good cutter. Anyway, I’ve sold even the EKI one as at certain point of my life I’ve stopped using it. That was the day, when my first HAK arrived, about 1.5 years ago. New era begun for me (neck-knife-wise). BTW, for me HAK means one of these you can find at www.hideawayknife.com. Period.

hide38zr.jpg


I can see in some posts here that HAK’s cutting abilities are questioned seriously. Well, that all depends what do you ask such a knife for. It’s maybe not the perfect choice for slicing bread, but saying that one can only work with the tip of the blade is at least incorrect. I’ve cut a lot of rope, wire, string, cloths, cardboard, leather, plastic, line and paper with it. Also I’ve sharpened some sticks, cut flowers for my wife, peeled apples, oranges etc. I’ll not talk about self-defense here as it’s too obvious that HAK can handle it easily, especially when combined with SureFire E2D. And for most of these cutting activities you need MUCH MORE than just a tip of the blade. Yes, HAK cuts with the whole edge line! It is 100% working knife, and in fact quite an efficient one esoecially COMPARED TO IT'S SIZE! Also it’s very good to visit for a longer time www.hideawayknife.com and study some ideas which HAK is best for which applications. For me #1 is just a “Stright” HAK, so the one I’ve received as the first one. Recently I’ve made a “summer” kydex sheath for it… tan kydex, string & cordwrap do not stand out on my torso so much, also you can hardly see it under even very light t-shirt.

kdxfssummer011rn.jpg


Choose best HAK for the job… that’s a key for me. That’s why I invested in another one, this time a “Sting” model with different blade-to-hand angle, more utilitarian design IMHO but not so “defensive” (that’s nothing more than just my opinion, based also on martial arts I'm familiar with). The blade control is absolute in this model. It’s designed for clean & easy cutting. Also Sting HAK works great as a fishing accessory for me! Yes! I’m a keen spinning angler and I can’t imagine a season without couple of trout or pike expeditions with my friends. And when you’re spinning in the middle of the mountain stream with your 7ft rod in one hand and you play with a small tackle box in another to change your twister, there is simply no better knife I’m aware of to cut the fishing line or trim the lures! Why? Because it just stays on your fingers, that’s why.

hidefish15wp.jpg


But that’s not all… also with HAK you have so many carry options available. Easy access and “low signature” carry at the same time, that’s a real power of HAK! Just take a look at my idea of HAK carry at shoulder strap of my backpack, just under the flashlight sheath. Could you spot a HAK at first glance standing even in front of me (first pic below)… hell no :D But still the access is soooo easy and natural.

piterwinter068dr.jpg


And of course endless variants of carry… on belt, shoulder, in the pocket, jacket, in the shoe, and even on another knife, like in my case (pic below). It’s so small it fits everywhere, still big enough & design in a way to do the job – to cut.

ubejanehak027ys.jpg


And that’s more or less why HAK changed my view on neck-knives. Simply HAK is so much more than just a neck-knife! It’s a different class, or system. It’s just HAK, one of the most innovative breakthroughs designs of last years in knife world IMHO. Thank you FrontSight for your out-of-the-box thinking, thanks for HAK :D

Be good :cool:
 
PiterM,

I agree with you onm several points. First, the HAK has many carry options. However, I have been using almost every one of the carry positions mentioned on HAK's website and some that aren't.

Regarding the cutting ability of the HAK, even you mention that the "Sting" model is more utilitarian. The blade profile is different in that it isn't canted. The knuckles are relatively in line with the blade.

By "tip" I meant with the last 1/2" to 3/4". That's all you get for some jobs, not the whole blade. But anyway, lets not split hairs. :) I'm not saying that the HAK can't do such jobs, just that IMHO the griffe can do them better/easier/more readily.

Your excellent pics gave me one idea of an advantage the HAK does have over the Griffe-you can wear one with gloves on.

What about the possibility of the HAK's handle snagging if exposed?

Anyway, good post.
 
PiterM, Could not have said it better!!! Its the best knife for retained use while using both your hands as stated better by your fishing tale!!! Imagine using both your hands withoput putting the knife down.

Best analogy I cud think of is how a hair stylist or barber palms the scissor when needing to use both hands.

Sometimes its the amount of steel for the amount of money thats the stumbling block, but with the availability if the UtilityHAK at $69 with kydex sheath, I dont see why that would still be a problem. The choice of 440A is very wise considering that its being used as a next to body carry where sweat is bound to wet the blade. It would even be better if its H1 but maybe next time??!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top