Emerson liner lock vs frame locks strength?

[ibute21]

Never owned an Emerson but have other liner locks and don't really care for them. From what i've had the best locks are frame locks. Unbelievably solid. And I'm a Benchmade fan. The ADAMAS lock competes with the framelocks though.

I find a couple of things you said to be amusing. You don't own any Emersons and yet here you are posting in here with subjective anecdotal advice.

You do know the frame lock is just as weak as a liner lock right? Yes, that's right. Look at the cut out on your frame lock. Chances are it's as thin as or thinner than a liner lock. That's your weak point, after all a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

And how does the Axis lock even fit into the mix? Comparing apples to oranges. Yes they are locks but one locks by engaging the lower tang and the other locks by engaging a piece of steel between the upper tang. A more fitting comparison would be Axis to compression/back/triad lock.

 

[Krazy Cash]

Take care of your gear and it will take care of you. Loctite your threads, cut with the sharp side of the blade, keep it clean and sharp. Have an issue? Send it in to the manufacturer. Don't like it? Return it. Vent if you feel the need to.

 

[jmclfrsh]

Love the people that bash Emersons and never owned one. He's stayed in business for a long time, something must be working right for that to happen.

And Locktite haters? What is the big deal if you put a drop of thread lock on a fastener to keep it connected, especially with a male/female rotating part? That is what it is designed for.

It is used on airplanes, racing vehicles and I'll bet it was used in the space shuttle program. But use it on a knife and all of a sudden it's a defective object?

A drop has kept my Sebenza 25 perfectly centered for months now, and I don't even think about it. A product that does it's job without drama isn't open for criticism in my book.

 

[jmorton10]

And Locktite haters? What is the big deal if you put a drop of thread lock on a fastener to keep it connected, especially with a male/female rotating part? That is what it is designed for.

.

I was kinda wondering that myself. I have used every different form of locktite over the years & I swear by it.

~John

 

[MrPocketsOfSteel]

As much as I love my Ernies, the AFCK is my all time favorite and I have 3 now. One is a user of sorts and two may never see the light of doutk

Whether or not they were/are an afterthought I really can't say, and always defer to my friend the expert (pbgc) for questions, he knows far more than I ever will.

The old school liner locks in good condition still go for around $200 and the highly sought after AXIS lock versions can fetch around $300.

Wow. That really grabbed my attention. That indeed must be special. Those are the types of knives I want. Special ones. I can go out and get a Hinderer /CRK etc. etc. but other than just being expensive and having the best of whatever material - I want it to be logical in the pocket no matter how I am sitting and I want it to kiss my hand. Lastly - can it cut.

Reading what you just said, for me at least, puts that knife in my categorie of pieces that I would feel very comfortable purchasing without ever having it in my hand.

I have found that when there is nothing that stands out looks wise about a knife and the years go by and people still trade/buy and talk about the knife....then it has reached (for me) that 'special' tag. For a piece like that adding the axis lock is nothing short of knife blasphemy. Ha! I would definitely want the original version. Thanks for making my future purchase now a no brainer.;-)

 

[stabman]

And Locktite haters?
A product that does it's job without drama isn't open for criticism in my book.

It's glue.
I don't glue in my knives.

If I don't like it in my knives, it certainly is open to criticism as regards going in my knives.

I'm not criticizing what you put in your knives. :thumbup:

 

[Krazy Cash]

Wow. That really grabbed my attention. That indeed must be special. Those are the types of knives I want. Special ones. I can go out and get a Hinderer /CRK etc. etc. but other than just being expensive and having the best of whatever material - I want it to be logical in the pocket no matter how I am sitting and I want it to kiss my hand. Lastly - can it cut.

Reading what you just said, for me at least, puts that knife in my categorie of pieces that I would feel very comfortable purchasing without ever having it in my hand.

I have found that when there is nothing that stands out looks wise about a knife and the years go by and people still trade/buy and talk about the knife....then it has reached (for me) that 'special' tag. For a piece like that adding the axis lock is nothing short of knife blasphemy. Ha! I would definitely want the original version. Thanks for making my future purchase now a no brainer.;-)

Not to take this off-topic again, but I think I saw one (combo edge) for sale in the Exchange.

 

[draggat]

I've owned 7 or 8 Emerson's over the years. I had a CQC 13 which had complete lock failure with just hand pressure on the spine. I sent it in and had my knife back within two weeks and it was fine from there on out. I ended up selling all of my Emerson's a few years ago, mainly because I really dislike the chisel edge grind and for the money, I just didn't feel that the F&F was up to snuff. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE his designs, just not the execution, which is why I can't wait to score a Zero Tolerance 0620. I'm surprised no one's mentioned them in this thread yet. Emerson design in a ZT package.... V grind edge and Ti frame lock. Definitely bigger than what the OP wants, but if it's anything like my other ZT's, it's gonna be a winner!

I don't understand you guys who insist on spine whacking. It doesn't prove anything other than that you're an idiot. If you need that kind of strength, carry a fixed blade! Spine whacking is incredibly hard on a knife. A sufficient test is just to use hand pressure on the spine while in the open position. I know that there are plenty here who will counter that, but it works just fine for me. All I can say is have fun ruining your $200+ knife.

 

[MrPocketsOfSteel]

I find a couple of things you said to be amusing. You don't own any Emersons and yet here you are posting in here with subjective anecdotal advice.

You do know the frame lock is just as weak as a liner lock right? Yes, that's right. Look at the cut out on your frame lock. Chances are it's as thin as or thinner than a liner lock. That's your weak point, after all a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

And how does the Axis lock even fit into the mix? Comparing apples to oranges. Yes they are locks but one locks by engaging the lower tang and the other locks by engaging a piece of steel between the upper tang. A more fitting comparison would be Axis to compression/back/triad lock.

Ssschmackkk owww! I bet that hurt.;-)

 

[MrPocketsOfSteel]

Not to take this off-topic again, but I think I saw one (combo edge) for sale in the Exchange.

Thanks for that. I have two combo edges and that's cool for me. Hopefully in time when I'm ready to pull the trigger there will be a plain edge for sale.

 

[MrPocketsOfSteel]

It's glue.
I don't glue in my knives.

If I don't like it in my knives, it certainly is open to criticism as regards going in my knives.

I'm not criticizing what you put in your knives. :thumbup:

FWIW I have never used it in a pivot. Though many do, it would kind of concern me if I HAD TO put it in my pivot or it became loose. Not good IMO.

 

[Akapennypincher]

Love the people that bash Emersons and never owned one. He's stayed in business for a long time, something must be working right for that to happen.

And Locktite haters? What is the big deal if you put a drop of thread lock on a fastener to keep it connected, especially with a male/female rotating part? That is what it is designed for.

Locktite is a great product with one color for short term use, so it is easily undone. But we must remember that the internet is the place for exchange of information.

Good

Bad

And just BS from keyboard commandos.

 

[jbravo]

I've carried several dozens of Emerson folders over 20 years, and certainly had my share of disagreements about them. But I have NEVER had one have a lock failure under use. In attending knife shows in that same time period, I've never met anyone who personally had one either.

Maybe I'm just lucky that way...

 

[jmorton10]

Locktite is a great product with one color for short term use, so it is easily undone.

That's correct.

The green "wick & lock" & the blue are easy to undo again, a drop of either one on a pivot screw will not hurt a thing.

The red "stud & bearing mount" bonds to the point where you need a torch to undo it.

~John

 

[pnsxyr]

For most general usage that isn't bordering using a knife in the fashion of a fixed blade or pry tool, the biggest difference between a liner lock and a frame lock is going to be the accessibility aspect, IMHO. I find a good frame lock as generally easier to use, generally less likely to develop "sticky lock", generally easier to detail strip, and generally better-suited to account for usage wear that can sometimes result in blade play or a less-than-great lockup. I do find the frame locks tend to do better with extremely dirty situations.

Many great makers like Emerson have used liner locks for years with great success. Does a test that hangs an anvil on a knife or place extreme force on the back of it in the fashion of hammer represent its capabilities? I don't personally think so. That said, I really prefer the titanium frame locks over the liner locks, especially if the liner is SS given titanium alloy's advantages. (IIRC Emerson uses ti liners so not an issue in this specific instance, if so.)

For abuse usage in which someone does not want to get a carbon steel fixed blade, I think the frame lock has advantages to a liner lock, but in perspective both are inferior to a fixed blade with a strong scandi, moran, or flat grind...so usage really can dictate how good or not good something may be...

 

[CapitalizedLiving]

Liner locks and frame locks should work about the same. I have never seen any difference in performance and prefer liner locks as I like full-length G10 on both sides of the handle.

There seems to be a lot of complaints about Emerson locks slipping, but there seems to be general consensus that Emerson will fix issues if their knives are sent back. Also, from my experience I was able to sell the Emersons I had and didn't like (stylistically speaking) fast and with no loss of money. So I don't see any good reason not to trust them or at least give them a try.

 

[Allex]

I find a couple of things you said to be amusing. You don't own any Emersons and yet here you are posting in here with subjective anecdotal advice.

You do know the frame lock is just as weak as a liner lock right? Yes, that's right. Look at the cut out on your frame lock. Chances are it's as thin as or thinner than a liner lock. That's your weak point, after all a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

And how does the Axis lock even fit into the mix? Comparing apples to oranges. Yes they are locks but one locks by engaging the lower tang and the other locks by engaging a piece of steel between the upper tang. A more fitting comparison would be Axis to compression/back/triad lock.

You know you are wrong, isn't it? I saw several knives with BENT lock ( liner lock ) and just one, in a picture, with a frame lock. The long part of this type of lock, under pressure, tends to bend, so if it's thicker it's better .

 

[ibute21]

You know you are wrong, isn't it? I saw several knives with BENT lock ( liner lock ) and just one, in a picture, with a frame lock. The long part of this type of lock, under pressure, tends to bend, so if it's thicker it's better .

What?

Bent lock? Where was it bent?

The long part? You mean the lock bar? Yeah? I'm no engineer but I know a lock will fail at its weak point. It's weak at the cut out. That's what I was saying.

The cut out on framelocks is the weak point. Don't tell me framelocks are stronger while supplying an anecdotal argument.

 

[pnsxyr]

For the type of work that would put extreme strain on a folder's stop pin such as batoning me up some firewood or the the locking liner/bar such as doing a 24 hour marathon back cut over several California Redwoods in a protected National Park, I would prefer to use a RAT5, ESEE, or SwampRat!

 

[cncpro11]

You know you are wrong, isn't it? I saw several knives with BENT lock ( liner lock ) and just one, in a picture, with a frame lock. The long part of this type of lock, under pressure, tends to bend, so if it's thicker it's better .

Huh? You saw it in a picture, wut?