Emerson "Wave Shaped Feature" Announcement

Zero_Time said:
To clear up some confusion, this is the exact wording of the trademark:

The mark consists of the configuration of a portion of the goods, namely, a wave-shaped protrusion on the spine of the blade of a knife, with the crest facing toward the tip of the knife and incorporating rolling ridges on the top and continuing toward the rear of the spine of the blade. The dotted lines as shown are not a part of the mark and are indicated only to illustrate the placement of the mark. The lining is intended to differentiate the position of the knife handle and is not a part of the mark.

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn86276385&docId=PRC20150915074144#docIndex=4&page=1

So my question is, if you don't have "rolling ridges on the top" (aka Jimping) is it trademarked?

And what shape is a "wave"?

Zero
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All of that info and it still is just vague enough to cover just about anything made. Gotta love it. The lawyers who write these things up and find any way to enforce them are just greedy scum.
 
Zero_Time said:
Yeah. I'm sure Mr. Emerson has given some companies permission, and they've paid whatever he deems necessary to license. However, maybe the companies he has licensed to were for strategic reasons. Spyderco got the license because he likes Sal (who doesn't!) and he knows they have a larger distribution network than any other quality brand; plus it offered an entry level (to EE) way to experience the wave, at $50 and $70 compared to $200 for an Emerson. Then, he licensed to ZT, and then later Kai, because he thought the design was interesting and wanted to see how his wave would perform on another knife design, then the lower-end kershaws were because Kai made a convincing presentation that he wasn't producing enough, and if they didn't fill the void with cheap licensed knives, chinese knockoffs would destroy his brand, because he couldn't supply the market fast enough.

Until evidence of an open and easy licensing process is made available, you cannot assume it's an open and easy licensing process. Notice how Benchmade produced some of the first Emerson designs for him, and they've done nothing since then? I suspect it's not an oversight.

Zero
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I'd have to peg my guess on the licensing being a negotiation. But in any case it appears the OP has now moved past this particular feature and onto something new. so the point is now moot.

No one on the inside is going to be likely to comment on something that requires a negotiation since it would mean showing their cards.
 
Just picked up a waved Spyder Matriarch 2. It is notated as an Emerson Patent, but does not have any jimping on or around the hook. In fact no where on the spine at all. I wonder if the patent is as vague as the trademark language.
 
bflying said:
Just picked up a waved Spyder Matriarch 2. It is notated as an Emerson Patent, but does not have any jimping on or around the hook. In fact no where on the spine at all. I wonder if the patent is as vague as the trademark language.
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http://www.google.com/patents/US5878500

1. A self opening folding knife and holster assembly, which comprises:
an elongated handle;

an elongated knife blade having a sharp first edge and a second edge opposite said first edge, a tip end and a base end;

hinge means connecting said base end of said knife blade to said handle for movement between a first position with said sharp edge abutting said handle and a second position extending away from said handle;

releasable means for locking said blade in said second position
a slot along a side of said handle for receiving and housing said one sharp first edge of said knife blade when said blade is in said first position; and
a generally hook-shaped projection formed as part of said knife blade and substantially coplanar with said knife blade;

said projection extending away from said second edge adjacent to said base end;
said hook-shaped projection extending toward said tip end; and
a holster for receiving said knife, said holster including at least one inwardly extending abutment configured to be engaged by said projection as said knife is withdrawn from said holster to rotate said knife blade from said first position to said second position.

Zero
 
Zero_Time said:
To clear up some confusion, this is the exact wording of the trademark:

The mark consists of the configuration of a portion of the goods, namely, a wave-shaped protrusion on the spine of the blade of a knife, with the crest facing toward the tip of the knife and incorporating rolling ridges on the top and continuing toward the rear of the spine of the blade. The dotted lines as shown are not a part of the mark and are indicated only to illustrate the placement of the mark. The lining is intended to differentiate the position of the knife handle and is not a part of the mark.

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn86276385&docId=PRC20150915074144#docIndex=4&page=1

So my question is, if you don't have "rolling ridges on the top" (aka Jimping) is it trademarked?

And what shape is a "wave"?

Zero
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That I think would be the question and a matter of personal interpretation of the trade mark's wording. Without the jimping though, at least to me, it wouldn't necessarily fall under the trade mark. A lawyer would very likely argue this point though.
 
Im sorry, your honor, I didn't wave my knife. I did some strategic stock removal to cut down on weight.
DzdmOhU.jpg

The only problem is that now everytime I pull the dang thing out it catches on my pocket. :confused:

I hope I don't get sued by benchmade for using their deep carey clips too...
KHR0l8d.jpg
 
SadSappySucker said:
Im sorry, your honor, I didn't wave my knife. I did some strategic stock removal to cut down on weight.
The only problem is that now everytime I pull the dang thing out it catches on my pocket. :confused:
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That would be terrible if Emerson cared what you did with your own knife. He simply does not want someone offering to Wave another person's knife for profit...
 
tokerblue said:
That would be terrible if Emerson cared what you did with your own knife. He simply does not want someone offering to Wave another person's knife for profit...
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Alright then, follow up on this bet.

Send Mr. Emerson an email with the attached picture saying that is your knife and you modified it but decided to sell it for whatever reason, and is this infringing his patent? I'll tell you what will happen.
A. He says he is not sure if it is a trademark issue but he'll put you in touch with his lawyer if you want to confirm
B. His lawyer sends you a response
He may additionally ask you to not produce them like he did CM.

The reason for all the lawyers is if Mr. Emerson said it was fine, it might be used as evidence he isn't defending his trademark and it has no validity. Legal proceedings bind both sides. Mr. Emerson, as smart as he is, is also smart enough to know that if he gave his opinion he might hurt future protection and it's a question for lawyers. We're not talking about if he is aware or not, because that is an issue of awareness, but we're talking about what Mr. Emerson would or would not approve of, if he was aware of it.

Zero
 
ALLHSS said:
Hating business is silly. Hate businesses going after the wrong people for the wrong reasons.
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I mean I hate anything money related that pushes people do ditch good will in favor of personal greed and just hinders one's passion with imo stupid crap like silly patents and court threats.

By business I mean when one's rotten enough to put his greed before his passion, but hey, that's just me.

I think if Emerson focused more on improving quality, materials and design instead of trying to cash in with a unique "patented" (and btw very neat and useful) gimmick they'd do much better.
 
Well I guess CM's just gonna have to come up with an even cooler opening feature than a wave. :cool:
 
Mecha said:
Well I guess CM's just gonna have to come up with an even cooler opening feature than a wave. :cool:
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Not really. I'm just going to buy knives that come with a pocket open device.
 
Charlie Mike said:
Not really. I'm just going to buy knives that come with a pocket open device.
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That is, until I perfect my top-secret Blade Electromagnetic Deployment and Retention device, or BEDR. ©®™ It will revolutionize fun and satisfying folding knife operation! :D
 
AVigil said:
Did you just make that up or do you have a source for that bit of information?
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I was never asked to stop until I broached the subject to the man. I asked him if he would prefer that I close my books on wave service and he said that would be nice.
 
Charlie Mike said:
I was never asked to stop until I broached the subject to the man. I asked him if he would prefer that I close my books on wave service and he said that would be nice.
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Of course, you are that kind of guy and for someone to make up something to make you look poorly is uncalled for.

He should apologize to you for making that up.
 
AVigil said:
Of course, you are that kind of guy and for someone to make up something to make you look poorly is uncalled for.

He should apologize to you for making that up.
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Eh, whatever.
 
mrnotsam123 said:
Speaking of acknowledgement, how bout you acknowledge that CM wasn't asked multiple times to not wave mod? Not saying this out of spite or to be rude, just clarification. That bit you threw out there seemed completely unfounded and not really based on anything. Wouldn't want to keep the confusion spreading.
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Saw Karda respond a lot of mumbo jumbo, but didn't respond with an apology or acknowledgement of misinformation. Not a surprise though.
 
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