Endura / Delica - update - need input

I would like to see flat ground blade and pivot screw insted of rivet, actually on all FRN handled models.
 
WARNING WARNING!! BE CAREFUL ABOUT CHANGING THESE KNIVES!!

I wasn't crazy about the changes to the Native (from "regular" to "3D").

Re: the Endura and Delica...

The clip mounting could be improved, although none of my post '98 Delicas or Enduras have had any damage. However, the clip on my latest Endura is a bit loose for my taste. It just hasn't swivelled enough to do any damage. I'd rather keep the barrel mounting method as well. The use of coins to remove/adjust is a great idea and shouldn't be changed.

I might prefer a larger hole, at least on the Delica. Not too much larger, though: maybe 1mm larger.

If the texturing could be made more "grippy," then that might be a worthwhile improvement.

Gotta remember price point! These aren't G10 or aluminum handled knives; they're FRN handled knives. These are also the "bread and butter" knives. Most Spydie fans probably began with one of these. I did.

Now here's my Endura/Delica "Curriculum :) Vitae":

-3 black FRN clip Enduras
-1 red FRN clip Endura
-black blade/black FRN clip Endura
-black blade/black handle metal clip Endura

-1 black FRN clip Delica
-1 black blade/black FRN clip Delica
-2 pink handle metal clip Delicas ('98s)
-1 blue handle metal clip Delica
-2 olive handle/black blade metal clip Delicas
-1 SS handle Delica

-1 Endura Trainer
-2 Delica Trainers (one original/one late model)

Again, be VERY careful about what you change on these knives. I carry one or the other every day.

Karl
 
As a limited edition, all Ti handle with a compression lock, with r/l/u/d clip carry options.
 
Bi-Directional texturing (like D'Allara) with a fully flat ground blade would be my additions to the design, with a 3-4 screw clip that is ambi. I am not a huge fan of the clips on the FRN models for this very reason, correcting this would be cool.
 
I've been usiing the pacific Salt (ergonomically the same as an Endura) for a few days now the only thing I miss when comparing it ti the Native and Millie is the choil(?), the curved bit on the blade where you can put your index finger. Most knife work, particularly fine work is done with the index finger slightly forward and I find being able to grip the blade is a big advantage. I have almost sliced myself a few times with the PSalt - but I'll adjust I am sure. Still if you made it the same as the Millie then it would be the Para wouldn't it?

I think that choil is a brilliant bit of design as well as a good safety feature and I would like to see it on all of the spydie line.
 
full flat grind and g10 (coloured orange, grey, yellow ,maybe also g12 -the translucent one -) and a tail like the dodo and scorpius.
 
I'm with Safety Guy as far as the basic principle here; "subtle refinement", not "major overhaul". These are "flagship" knives that work very, very well. I'm inclined to believe that the Native 3 design appeals to a narrower variety of people than the Native 1 does. I wouldn't want to see the Endura and Delica get the same treatment. Subtle ergonomic refinements good. Subtle functional refinements good. Dramatically changing the character of the knife bad.
Now, as to what you _should_ change...In my opinion these models are aimed at the average consumer, not at knife nuts. So my suggestions may be very different from many others here. I don't mean to belittle anyone, I just disagree with a lot of them ;)

Spine ridges: If you use 'em, keep 'em subtle. I like the ridges on the hump of the Paramilitary, and on the butt of the Benchmade Griptillian. Any more aggressive than that, and they get "uncomfortable" in handling. I honestly don't think they add much to the knife, but if done right, they won't detract, and it'll be more attractive to many users.

Larger hole: In my experience, the larger opening hole doesn't make a meaningful difference. Anybody who picks up any of my Spydies can use it easily, regardless of the hole size (and with these general-utility models, gloved use isn't so big a factor as it is with military and SAS-targeted knives). The one exception: I've noticed that some small-handed women have trouble with larger opening holes (but of course, women are a tiny minority of your customers--I've noticed Spyderco has some trouble pitching knives to the female market ;) )

Finger choil: I love finger choils. All of my favorite folders have 'em, and I'm completely spoiled by 'em. So it hurts to say it, but I don't think one belongs on this knife. A shallow choil (like on the Calypso Jr.) will be a hazard to a customer who doesn't know how to handle it properly, and there doesn't seem to be enough room for a deep choil without dramatically redesigning the handle. I'd leave it off this one.

Adjustable pivot: I appreciate it on the Salsa and Military models, but I don't think the subtle benefit is worth the headaches and higher price on a knife in this price point. And more importantly, I simply don't think the Delica's primary market wants, cares about, or even knows of adjustable pivots. I'd just leave well enough alone.

Full flat grind: I'd love it. But it just wouldn't work without the changes in blade shape that you've mentioned in the past (slightly more belly and thicker stock with distal taper). If you wanted to go through with those changes, and it worked out okay in prototype, then I think it's a great idea. If not, then it's really not a problem as-is. Sure, I love full flat grinds, but the Delica has a thin enough stock that it still cuts beautifully for me. As much as I want a full-flat-ground Delica with a finger choil, it just doesn't make sense from a business perspective. The Delica sells well, while the Calypso Jr. failed. Twice. It's a shame, but that's the market.
(BTW, I sold off my Endura a long time ago, so I can't comment on _its_ geometry)

Redesigned clip: I'd make the clip the top priority on this one; it's the only thing I'd say is "wrong" with the current version. The barrel clip was a great idea, and clip changing with coins is a wonderful touch, but the clip and clip mount just don't _work_ in this model... If a wire clip will fix the torquing problem, then it'd be my ideal solution. It's gentler on cars and furniture, and subtler in the pocket. I like it a lot. If you don't think the market will accept it (the market, now, not the BladeForums community ;) ), then try "beefing up" the clip mount. Or switching to a Calypso-style three-screw mount with threaded steel inserts. But _something_ has to be done about it.

"Deep carry": If you go with the wire clip, just leave enough of the handle showing above the pocket line to get a grip on it, thus eliminating the "wire clips have nothing to grab onto" argument.

That's all I got. Good luck!
 
As far as a deep carry clip goes,couldn't that be done with an opptional clip?One could order the knife with the standard or a clip that fits in the same place but this clip then runs up to the end of the handle then has a 180 degree bend and goes back down.

I believe the meercats wire clip works like that.
 
Several people have mentioned a preference for a flat grind, and not just in this thread.
Would someone comment on why they prefer a flat grind?
 
Don't change too much!!!!

I agree with switching to the full flat grind if it's feasible.

The present clip attachment works fine for me -- but I agree the black finish wears off pretty quickly, at least for me.

The present hole size works fine for me, and I have a Chinook II with a larger hole for comparison.

The present handle shape works great. Not everyone want's a Native-style grip, and the Delica/Endura offers a good, versitile alternative.

FRN is fine -- we all like G-10 or whatever but it would drive up the price. FRN works, keeps it light, and keeps the cost down. If you want G-10 buy a Paramilitary or a Military.

Keep it at or near the present price!!!
 
Ken Cox said:
Several people have mentioned a preference for a flat grind, and not just in this thread.
Would someone comment on why they prefer a flat grind?
Click to expand...
Full flat grind blades always seem to be excellent cutters. I also like the look of a full flat grind.
 
bigger hole
insert to keep the clip from turning/stripping
full flat, and straighter edge (I'd love nothing more than to see the Calypso blades on the Endura/Delica)
 
Presuming that there is no desire to change the handle material...

Larger blade hole;
3-D grip similar to the native;
Beefier (Not different) clip attachment;
Some color variety.

Thanks Sal!
 
The only changes I would make echo some that have already been mentioned. I would change the pocket clip to something a little stronger. I would also like to see more colors made more widely available. All FRN handles, but red, blue, blaze orange, maybe a desert tan as well and my favorite, OD green with the black blade. I can say from personal expirience, that a blaze orange handle would go over huge with me and my hunting pals, as I have lost two knives while field dressing a kill by setting the knife down and having the "gut pile monster" walk off with it. That is why my Cutco hunting knife is blaze orange.

If we start making too many changes, then we are looking at having knives that are too similar to the higer end Spydies, and this would be bad. These knives are great the way they are, and if I want a G-10 handle, or a finger choil, I would buy a model that had them already!!

Garrett
 
ElectricZombie said:
A full flat grind like the Military and tip up and tip down carry options would be nice. Traction ridges for thumb placement would be great. Other than that, I think the Delica and Endura are fine as is.
Click to expand...

Yup! That sums it up!
 
I think the Endura/Delica models are just fine the way they are. These two knives are entry-level blades, and as such price is a major consideration. Some of the improvements suggested such as flat-grind, thumb notches, and the use of a different handle material would no doubt improve the model, but they would also presumably increase the cost and cause Spyderco to lose customers. In addition, they would make the Endura and Delica too close to other models, namely the Military and Paramilitary. If Spyderco were to make these two knives flat-grind, with thumb notches, and G-10 slabs, it would basically have a Military/Paramilitary in lockback form.

And despite the fact that I am not too fond of FRN, I have to say that this material does have its redeeming qualities. It is low maintenance, inexpensive, and lightweight. I've had my Endura for two years now, and the handle has maintained its appearance better than the clip or the blade.

As to the clip, I have no opinion. I haven't had any problems with the barrel clip, and I have no experience with the wire clip. I do like the fact that I can tighten the barrel clip with a nickel. I guess I do have one suggestion. Take off the paint on the clip and just leave it silver. That way the appearance of the knife will look better after a couple of years' use.

I think the sabre grind is just fine the way it is. These two knives are already great cutters. Converting to a full flat grind will probably just increase manufacturing costs. I do think that Spyderco should change from a mirror polish to a satin finish. Given the fact that these two knives are work oriented, I don't think a mirror polish is necessary. A mirror polish not only hides scratches less effectively, but it also costs more.

That's it for now.
 
I like them pretty much the way they are at the moment, except I'd like a torx pivot screw like that on the D'Allara model, and I'd like the clip to remain basically shaped the same, except be attached with 3 torx screws instead of one large screw, which may leave that part of the clip delicate and bendable. The reason I like the torx construction is I have the tools for them :p and it can be adjustable to prevent loosening over time.

Otherwise, I like the present flat grind and VG-10 steel.
Jim
 
I like them pretty much as they are but I would like the length on the Delica shortened to under three inches and the clip changed to allow for tip down deep carry. (A wire clip would be fine.) Other than that maybe a few special runs like the carbon fiber, only with G10, aluminum, and maybe titanium. Keep the FRN as the main line.
 
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