Escalator and Gunting, some comments on long term use

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Thanks for the additional info, one thing that suprised me about the Rolling lock was the frequent warnings about hard openings. Considering that this is the same lock that was on the Escalator, hard snap opens are not near the limit of actual use stress.

-Cliff
 
On hard usage: I have personally used both knives, the one Escalator proto and both production versions... I have used my personal three Gunting Protos and several production ones...
I used my proto type Guntings more than I EVER used the Escalators of any kind.They take it better.

The compression lock absorbs much more abuse than the "rolling lock" did..
this could be because the rolling lock has many moving parts, some very small that cannot take the abuse of kinetic opening..
Now I don't think that any locks before the compression lock were DESIGNED top take that kind of impact..especially constant impact..
Judging the failure of a "rolling lock" or its single components to take the abuse dished out by Kinetic opening is again, in all fairness to its design, not really fair...
Its designed to hold the blade open AFTER opening and under a great amount of force.. which it does very well
NOT KINETIC impact..
As for the release? well the lever locks were a first idea in after thought they obviously were not the best solution ( for all the reasons stated so far in this thread)..but REKAT change them to compression springs with slide..better release but its a PERSONAL, not scientific choice as to if either were correct for the defunct Escalator
or for tactical knives..( again as discussed in this thread..)

The compression lock was DESIGNED for the GUNTING..to take the impact of KINETIC openings..repeated kinetic openings..

As with any designs the GUNTING is light years ahead of the Escalator...but it should be...

No offense meant to REKAT or their making of my Escalator..it was what it was at that point in time...a good attempt to make my knife...

It, the Escalator, cannot really be compared point by point to a GUNTING..thats like comparing a 1950's 356A coupe to a 2001 969 Twin Turbo AWD...they're both really cool but not the same thing at all nor is one compareable to the other..

The GUNTING is the next evolution..

Final thought by me:
yes.there were Escalator levers..
Yes, the springs broke..
yes, the locks broke...
(for example REKAT and I had John Wiley at Ontario break it..I personally brought it up to Onraion Knives with Mr Taylors verbal statement for them to BREAK it..it broke!)
Yes the levers could catch on things
Yes the slide release came next
yes, they could be released by grip..
No they didn't break as often..springs and locks ( under kinetic duress!)
NO none of this matters in regards to the GUNTING...
nor does it make REKAT or rolling locks bad..

Kinetic opening is a new animal that takes its toll on ANY part not designed specifically for doing it..

The rolling lock is a very very good lock..
it does its job exceedingly well..holding a blade open so as not to lose one's fingers while using the edged tool..
The compression lock is BETTER for the GUNTING and kinetic openings..

Ok end of story..IMHO...

Other versions of reality are welcome..
( inside joke!)

 
Hellllooooo? Spark, you out there?
Boy your guns sure were a blazin' when you thought Cliff's back was turned. How come you are so quiet now? Oh well, it is open season on CLiff Stamp at Bladeforums anyway so no harm right? But you better check the bag limit 'cause I think your larder is getting quite full. You guys sure jumped at the chance to make him moderator when he was "Popular Cliff" didn't you. Now that he is "Doghouse Cliff" you guys couldn't get his moderator title removed fast enough. Of course I wasn't on BF too much during that time so I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me because I would like to be enlightened. I did a search and looked at old threads but couldn't come up with any explanation. About a year ago, everyone wanted to be Cliff's friend. They all wanted him to test this knife or that knife and what did he think of this edge grind or that blade shape. Then a couple of the heavy hitters come at him, and suddenly all of Cliff's "friends" just disappeared. I'm only sorry that I didn't happen on to the Talonite thread before it was locked. I thought about posting something in the Arc Lite (sp) thread but didn't want to hijack that thread with my personal gripes. Well this is a thread that Cliff started so I don't feel so bad about spouting off.
Well Spark, are you going to back up your original statements, and if not, are you going to be man enough to offer up an apology?
I wish people would take a page from Jeff Randall. He is a CLASS act. He and Cliff disagree on everything, including where the sun rises. But you know what? He always treats Cliff with the same respect that Cliff affords him. (Even if he takes a good natured poke at him once in a while)

Jim McCullough

p.s.- I have never spoken with anyone, including Cliff, about this, and if I am way off base, I will address that if it comes out.
 
Hunter,

Better to let sleeping dogs lie. Look for threads involving discontinuing the individual for sale forums. You know, some people are right even when they are wrong.
 
Ok, I'll jump back into this thread to explain my absence, no problem.

First off, the reason I haven't responded back is because someone, I won't say who, feels that the best way to respond to anything where they are losing an argument is to threaten legal action. As a result, Mike told me point blank not to respond anymore in this thread. So, if this argument seems a little one sided, you need to keep two things in mind - One, I was told to keep out; and two, certain parties do have an agenda here. If I seem vague it's so no one can claim I'm making statements against them directly.

I'd be more than happy to back up anything and everything I stated previously, however, based on the litigious nature of some people, I am not going to in this thread. Sorry.

Second, Cliff's friends didn't disappear "all of a sudden" - Cliff was warned repeatedly about his conduct before he was removed as a moderator - and there is precedent for that before Cliff. In addition, I can name at least 3 instances where I personally went to bat defending Cliff while he was a moderator - so any claims that he wasn't supported are pure BS.

More later, have a nice day, watch for falling rocks.

Spark


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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Spark,

Thanks for the e-mail and for the answer in this thread. Now that I reread what I wrote, I should have waited to post until I calmed down.
I was spoiling for a fight and you were mature enough to not take the bait. Not that anyone owed me an explanation anyway, but I have corresponded with both Cliff and Spark and I am "enlightened".

Thanks,

Jim McCullough
 
Hey, pass the KOOL-AID.....
smile.gif


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"The most effective armor is to keep out of range"-Italian proverb
 
Spark:

Cliff was warned repeatedly about his conduct before he was removed as a moderator
Click to expand...

That is a lie. I have the email Mike sent out Spark, it is clear that this was the first communication we had on the subject from the content.

Not that it would have made any difference though, if you had asked me to "fall in line" or be removed I would have told you directly to remove me.

-Cliff
 
Just so there is no mistake about my last post Cliff, you are always welcome around my campfire. You bring the knives and I'll bring the pain reliever's. It was -18 degrees at my house last night so you should feel right at home.
smile.gif


Jim McCullough
 
Cliff, your memory is less than perfect, and your recall is flawed. I know I sent you emails on more than one occasion about moderating your tone and changing your behaviour, and I remember your replies - if you choose to not remember them, that is your problem.

Regardless - you are not "King of the Hill" and we do not play by your rules - you either accept our terms and conditions, or you aren't a part of BladeForums.com. Your reluctance to do so and your own actions led to your removal - and it wasn't a snap judgement on our parts. Both Mike and myself discussed this before it happened and we both agreed on the decision before we took any steps.

You can either recognize the role you played in your own removal, or you can ignore it, but it doesn't change the facts.

Spark


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 12-05-2000).]
 
Gee Spark....for someone who was "ordered" not to post on this thread, you don't follow directions very well do you?
smile.gif
 
Spark,
you said:

"I'd be more than happy to back up anything and everything I stated previously....."

I'd like to hear you back up that comment about production escalators.

Driscoll
 
Jody - bite me
biggrin.gif
Differant subject, differant rules.

Driscoll - unfortunately, that's part of what I was told not to comment publicly upon. Since we all know just where you stand, I'm not going to waste my time speaking to deaf ears; especially when you have already proven you aren't interested in facts. But I'll give you a hint - there are interesting times ahead.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
OOOOHHHHH, we are really shaking in our boots. I can't wait to see what the future holds, by the way when I bite, I tend to bite things off.
 
Spark:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I know I sent you emails on more than one occasion about moderating your tone and changing your behaviour, and I remember your replies - if you choose to not remember them, that is your problem. </font>
Click to expand...

I have all our emails Spark, as they were through the university machine. As for my memory and whatnot, a complete record is also available from the Sys admin who has long term backups. Email me the discussions you are referencing.

As I noted above in the email Mike sent me on the Aug. 31, it is clear this is the first time he has discussed it with me and as well my responce indicated that I would never considering changing what I would write just to remain as a moderator. If you had mentioned it to me in the past I would have suggested you remove me immediately.

In regards to accepting the rules and what not, as I stated above Spark, once Mike said that he didn't want me as moderator I had no desire to be one. He obviously has the right to run Bladeforums any way he wants to which is why I didn't debate the issue with him nor did I bring it up on the forums.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 12-07-2000).]
 
I'll check my home machine tonight and let everyone know either way - if I am wrong I'll freely admit it. My work machine here (where they probably would be) was reformatted 3 months ago after a virus so I don't have anything past then that will be useful here. Regardless, I have a clear memory of sending them out - I'm just not sure if I will be able to back that up with hardcopy.

I do have 3 or 4 emails between us from 9/1 which I'll be happy to provide if you no longer have copies.

I do not doubt that Mike's email to you is the first you recieved from him - typically I handle most of these issues and he stepped in in this case.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
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