- Joined
- Jun 13, 2015
- Messages
- 1
Hello All,
I've been a long-time lurker here at BF, and I appreciate all of the reviews that users post. I wanted to share my experience with the ESEE 6, which left me very disappointed.
The ESEE 6
What I was looking for was a good survival knife with about a 5" - 6" blade. I was having a tough time deciding between a Fallkniven S1 and the ESEE 6. I went with the ESEE for two few reasons:
1. It was cheaper
2. The warranty is purportedly amazing
After having received the 6 in the mail, I immediately oiled it and used it to do some light cutting and chopping in my yard. I then put it on a shelf in my living room. A few days later, I pulled it out and it looked fine. Nonetheless, I re-oiled it to be safe (anyone who reads about ESEE knives or 1095 is made aware of the potential for rust).
I was very happy with my purchase at this point, so I ordered the MOLLE backing. When the backing came, I grabbed my knife and went to attached the sheath to the backing. I was very surprised to see that the entire cutting edge - outside of the coated area was yellow and orange and beginning to rust after only one use and 5 weeks after I received it (I've owned a VG10 Endura for over 5 years and it has seen far more use and far less maintenance and it has never rusted). I immediately set out to remove the rust. After spending 30 minutes doing so, I came to the unavoidable conclusion that a knife that is properly oiled and has not been exposed to any amount of moisture that would reasonably lead to rust is not a tool fit for survival situations.
Customer Service
When I sent an email to KnifeWorks to process a return, I copied Mike at ESEE. Shortly after sending the email, I received an inflammatory reply from Mike patronizing me and accusing me of being incompetent.
I replied stating that I had indeed maintained the knife - having oiled it twice, once after not even having used it. Mike replied seemingly ignoring my statement that the knife was maintained. He also went on to acknowledge that in a survival situation that includes moisture, a 1095 ESEE is, basically, a one-time-use product.
After some time, Mike followed up with another email stating that if I wanted to I could ship the knife to him so that he could reimburse me. I replied stating that I would ship the knife the next day, which I did at my own expense.
At this point, I assumed that the matter had been resolved.
Upon receiving the knife, Mike emailed me as if to complain that the knife had no rust on it. I explained that I had spent my time to remove the rust and apologized for forgetting to include the belt clip, which I offered to send in another package.
Mike's response was to accuse me of lying, I'm not sure what exactly in regards to. He then praised the knife's performance because it did not rust while being shipped (Perhaps I made a mistake in assuming the knife was meant to be carried in its sheath and used for cutting things - rather than being carried around in a USPS flat rate box filled with newspaper?).
Ultimately, Mike of ESEE knives reneged on his end of our agreement. He justified his conclusion by informing me that the knife did not rust after being shipped in a box filled with newspaper. All of this was after I had to fight an uphill battle, at the beginning of which I was patronized and treated as incompetent instead of as a valued customer.
I am awaiting a response from KnifeWorks so I can get my money back without having to pass the ESEE knife onto someone else.
Bottom Line
If you buy an ESEE 1095 knife, expect it to rust spontaneously or to have to walk around with a knife that is dripping in oil. Do not expect any help from ESEE customer service.
My recommendation is to save up the extra money to buy a stainless fixed blade - I ordered the Fallkniven S1, which I will be reviewing in the future.
Correspondence
Me
Dear Knife Works Help,
I am writing to request a return for Order __________, 5/25/15. I am extremely disappointed with the ESEE 6 that I ordered. The facts are as follows:
After receiving the knife, I was excited to test it out so I used it to cut and split some dry wood in my yard.
Directly afterward, having done a significant amount of research regarding the 1095 steel from which the ESEE is made, I thoroughly dried it and oiled it using mineral oil, then stored it in its sheath on a shelf in my living room where there is no significant amount of moisture.
Five days after, I proactively inspected the knife and applied another light coat of oil.
At this point, I was thrilled with my purchase as I believed that I had received a top notch survival blade at an excellent price, so I proceeded to order the MOLLE backing from another retailer.
Today, I received that backing. Before attaching the sheath and backing, I pulled out the knife and noticed that the entire cutting edge had developed a light coating of rust. Having not used the knife since my initial trial and having oiled it twice, I was appalled.
I made myself well aware of the potential for the blade to rust, which is why I made it a point to dry and oil the knife with a high degree of attention to detail.
I have decided that any survival blade that rusts so soon, despite my careful, proactive preventative care, is far from fulfilling its function as a reliable, durable tool.
I could go on, but my complaint is not against Knife Works in any way, the misfortune of the situation is that I ordered the knife through you.
If we are able to reach a successful resolution, I would love to continue to support you and order the Fallkniven S1 from you, at the link below (meaning I would be more than happy to accept store credit for the return), as the issue with the ESEE 6 is not your fault, and your service has been excellent to date.
http://www.knifeworks.com/fallknivens1forestknifezytelsheath.aspx#.VXypkflViko
Very Respectfully,
Mike
Knife Works can do whatever they wish but I will not allow this knife to be returned for warranty to ESEE Knives. We warn in the warranty that bare steel will rust. Rust is a process of oxygen, iron and moisture combining to form iron oxide or rust. Clearly if your knife developed rust on the bare steel areas there wasn't a sufficient coating of rust preventive to interrupt the rust forming process.
Your knife, any knife , from a carbon steel will eventually develop a bit of rust . It doesn't hurt the knife or inhibit the use in any way. Even stainless will eventually rust. Use is actually the best way to remove rust and keep it at bay.
But the bottom line here is you are asking for a knife to be warrantied / returned for what is normal wear , something we clearly state we do not warranty against.
No company is going to accept the return of a knife because of a bit of rust.
Mike
Me
Mike,
I understand the oxidation process and the fact that any knife that is not maintained will rust. However, for a knife that has received thorough and detailed maintenance to rust after a single use and a mere five weeks after it was purchased is, for me and I assume many customers, unacceptable. Per your email, it would seem that I would have to walk around with a knife that is dripping with oil.
When I think of a rugged outdoor tool, like a survival knife, I do not envision having to bring a slew of items to care for it after every single use. Nor do I appreciate thought of having to maintain a regimen of compulsively using my knife to keep rust at bay.
In a survival scenario, should I not expose the blade to any moisture? Am I to EDC a cleaning kit in case my ESEE 6 would get wet? Or am I supposed to accept that by the end of a survival situation, my ESEE 6 knife would be so rusted as to be unusable?
For the record, I have owned a Spyderco Endura in VG10 for over five years during which it has seen far more use and far less maintenance. To date, it has not developed a single spec of rust nor developed any discoloration due to oxidation.
I most certainly hope that any potential buyers of ESEE carbon steel blades take my experience as a buyer beware. I honestly expected that ESEE would have excellent customer service to match its renowned warranty. Your treatment of me as a customer would suggest that neither offer any real remedy for legitimate issues.
Mike
Again... We clearly state we do not warranty against rust or your knife going dull from use . In a survival situation rust is probably the least of your worries
.
You are asking for warranty against something you knew or should have known is not a warranty issue. Steel will rust period . If the steel is stored without a preventative it will rust.
I have treated you the same as I do everyone . We have never and will never warranty against rust, knife going dull from use, loss or theft.
If you feel you have been treated unfairly then I invite you to take your business elsewhere .
Mike
Mike (He sent a second email - perhaps realizing that the customer service he was providing was less than great.)
If you want to mail your knife to me I will personally reimburse you for the original purchase price. Include the price and your return address.
Mike
ADDRESS
Mike
Me
Mike,
I will ship the knife tomorrow via a medium USPS Flat Rate box. Attached is a copy of my receipt from Knife Works, which I will also print and include in the package. The return address is listed on the receipt and below.
Mike
Check will go out USPS priority when the knife arrived.
Mike
Mike
I received your knife. Zero rust. No belt clip. What gives? Mike
Co-Owner, ESEE Knives
Randall's Adventure Training
Me
Dear Mike,
I spent about half an hour removing the rust. After doing so, I decided I would look elsewhere for a survival knife. I did forget to include the belt clip in the package, my apologies. If you like, I can send it out tomorrow.
Mike
The knife has been about 4 days in shipping and no rust because it has rust preventative on it. No rust. If you had used a preventative wgen storing it before you would not gave had a rust problem. From where I sit you have lied. I will be returning your knife to you with a rust preventative.
Mike
Me
Mike,
The knife had the same rust preventative on it that it has now when it rusted. I cannot speak to the conditions that the knife experienced during the shipping process, but when I had it in my possession it was not exposed to moisture, and it still rusted.
I will be making my entire experience with ESEE public so that other potential customers will be aware of what kind of disservice they will receive if they purchase an ESEE product.
Mike
You go right ahead. Be sure you publish every email in entirety. If you leave anything out I will be sure and fill in the gaps.
Mike
I've been a long-time lurker here at BF, and I appreciate all of the reviews that users post. I wanted to share my experience with the ESEE 6, which left me very disappointed.
The ESEE 6
What I was looking for was a good survival knife with about a 5" - 6" blade. I was having a tough time deciding between a Fallkniven S1 and the ESEE 6. I went with the ESEE for two few reasons:
1. It was cheaper
2. The warranty is purportedly amazing
After having received the 6 in the mail, I immediately oiled it and used it to do some light cutting and chopping in my yard. I then put it on a shelf in my living room. A few days later, I pulled it out and it looked fine. Nonetheless, I re-oiled it to be safe (anyone who reads about ESEE knives or 1095 is made aware of the potential for rust).
I was very happy with my purchase at this point, so I ordered the MOLLE backing. When the backing came, I grabbed my knife and went to attached the sheath to the backing. I was very surprised to see that the entire cutting edge - outside of the coated area was yellow and orange and beginning to rust after only one use and 5 weeks after I received it (I've owned a VG10 Endura for over 5 years and it has seen far more use and far less maintenance and it has never rusted). I immediately set out to remove the rust. After spending 30 minutes doing so, I came to the unavoidable conclusion that a knife that is properly oiled and has not been exposed to any amount of moisture that would reasonably lead to rust is not a tool fit for survival situations.
Customer Service
When I sent an email to KnifeWorks to process a return, I copied Mike at ESEE. Shortly after sending the email, I received an inflammatory reply from Mike patronizing me and accusing me of being incompetent.
I replied stating that I had indeed maintained the knife - having oiled it twice, once after not even having used it. Mike replied seemingly ignoring my statement that the knife was maintained. He also went on to acknowledge that in a survival situation that includes moisture, a 1095 ESEE is, basically, a one-time-use product.
After some time, Mike followed up with another email stating that if I wanted to I could ship the knife to him so that he could reimburse me. I replied stating that I would ship the knife the next day, which I did at my own expense.
At this point, I assumed that the matter had been resolved.
Upon receiving the knife, Mike emailed me as if to complain that the knife had no rust on it. I explained that I had spent my time to remove the rust and apologized for forgetting to include the belt clip, which I offered to send in another package.
Mike's response was to accuse me of lying, I'm not sure what exactly in regards to. He then praised the knife's performance because it did not rust while being shipped (Perhaps I made a mistake in assuming the knife was meant to be carried in its sheath and used for cutting things - rather than being carried around in a USPS flat rate box filled with newspaper?).
Ultimately, Mike of ESEE knives reneged on his end of our agreement. He justified his conclusion by informing me that the knife did not rust after being shipped in a box filled with newspaper. All of this was after I had to fight an uphill battle, at the beginning of which I was patronized and treated as incompetent instead of as a valued customer.
I am awaiting a response from KnifeWorks so I can get my money back without having to pass the ESEE knife onto someone else.
Bottom Line
If you buy an ESEE 1095 knife, expect it to rust spontaneously or to have to walk around with a knife that is dripping in oil. Do not expect any help from ESEE customer service.
My recommendation is to save up the extra money to buy a stainless fixed blade - I ordered the Fallkniven S1, which I will be reviewing in the future.
Correspondence
Me
Dear Knife Works Help,
I am writing to request a return for Order __________, 5/25/15. I am extremely disappointed with the ESEE 6 that I ordered. The facts are as follows:
After receiving the knife, I was excited to test it out so I used it to cut and split some dry wood in my yard.
Directly afterward, having done a significant amount of research regarding the 1095 steel from which the ESEE is made, I thoroughly dried it and oiled it using mineral oil, then stored it in its sheath on a shelf in my living room where there is no significant amount of moisture.
Five days after, I proactively inspected the knife and applied another light coat of oil.
At this point, I was thrilled with my purchase as I believed that I had received a top notch survival blade at an excellent price, so I proceeded to order the MOLLE backing from another retailer.
Today, I received that backing. Before attaching the sheath and backing, I pulled out the knife and noticed that the entire cutting edge had developed a light coating of rust. Having not used the knife since my initial trial and having oiled it twice, I was appalled.
I made myself well aware of the potential for the blade to rust, which is why I made it a point to dry and oil the knife with a high degree of attention to detail.
I have decided that any survival blade that rusts so soon, despite my careful, proactive preventative care, is far from fulfilling its function as a reliable, durable tool.
I could go on, but my complaint is not against Knife Works in any way, the misfortune of the situation is that I ordered the knife through you.
If we are able to reach a successful resolution, I would love to continue to support you and order the Fallkniven S1 from you, at the link below (meaning I would be more than happy to accept store credit for the return), as the issue with the ESEE 6 is not your fault, and your service has been excellent to date.
http://www.knifeworks.com/fallknivens1forestknifezytelsheath.aspx#.VXypkflViko
Very Respectfully,
Mike
Knife Works can do whatever they wish but I will not allow this knife to be returned for warranty to ESEE Knives. We warn in the warranty that bare steel will rust. Rust is a process of oxygen, iron and moisture combining to form iron oxide or rust. Clearly if your knife developed rust on the bare steel areas there wasn't a sufficient coating of rust preventive to interrupt the rust forming process.
Your knife, any knife , from a carbon steel will eventually develop a bit of rust . It doesn't hurt the knife or inhibit the use in any way. Even stainless will eventually rust. Use is actually the best way to remove rust and keep it at bay.
But the bottom line here is you are asking for a knife to be warrantied / returned for what is normal wear , something we clearly state we do not warranty against.
No company is going to accept the return of a knife because of a bit of rust.
Mike
Me
Mike,
I understand the oxidation process and the fact that any knife that is not maintained will rust. However, for a knife that has received thorough and detailed maintenance to rust after a single use and a mere five weeks after it was purchased is, for me and I assume many customers, unacceptable. Per your email, it would seem that I would have to walk around with a knife that is dripping with oil.
When I think of a rugged outdoor tool, like a survival knife, I do not envision having to bring a slew of items to care for it after every single use. Nor do I appreciate thought of having to maintain a regimen of compulsively using my knife to keep rust at bay.
In a survival scenario, should I not expose the blade to any moisture? Am I to EDC a cleaning kit in case my ESEE 6 would get wet? Or am I supposed to accept that by the end of a survival situation, my ESEE 6 knife would be so rusted as to be unusable?
For the record, I have owned a Spyderco Endura in VG10 for over five years during which it has seen far more use and far less maintenance. To date, it has not developed a single spec of rust nor developed any discoloration due to oxidation.
I most certainly hope that any potential buyers of ESEE carbon steel blades take my experience as a buyer beware. I honestly expected that ESEE would have excellent customer service to match its renowned warranty. Your treatment of me as a customer would suggest that neither offer any real remedy for legitimate issues.
Mike
Again... We clearly state we do not warranty against rust or your knife going dull from use . In a survival situation rust is probably the least of your worries
. You are asking for warranty against something you knew or should have known is not a warranty issue. Steel will rust period . If the steel is stored without a preventative it will rust.
I have treated you the same as I do everyone . We have never and will never warranty against rust, knife going dull from use, loss or theft.
If you feel you have been treated unfairly then I invite you to take your business elsewhere .
Mike
Mike (He sent a second email - perhaps realizing that the customer service he was providing was less than great.)
If you want to mail your knife to me I will personally reimburse you for the original purchase price. Include the price and your return address.
Mike
ADDRESS
Mike
Me
Mike,
I will ship the knife tomorrow via a medium USPS Flat Rate box. Attached is a copy of my receipt from Knife Works, which I will also print and include in the package. The return address is listed on the receipt and below.
Mike
Check will go out USPS priority when the knife arrived.
Mike
Mike
I received your knife. Zero rust. No belt clip. What gives? Mike
Co-Owner, ESEE Knives
Randall's Adventure Training
Me
Dear Mike,
I spent about half an hour removing the rust. After doing so, I decided I would look elsewhere for a survival knife. I did forget to include the belt clip in the package, my apologies. If you like, I can send it out tomorrow.
Mike
The knife has been about 4 days in shipping and no rust because it has rust preventative on it. No rust. If you had used a preventative wgen storing it before you would not gave had a rust problem. From where I sit you have lied. I will be returning your knife to you with a rust preventative.
Mike
Me
Mike,
The knife had the same rust preventative on it that it has now when it rusted. I cannot speak to the conditions that the knife experienced during the shipping process, but when I had it in my possession it was not exposed to moisture, and it still rusted.
I will be making my entire experience with ESEE public so that other potential customers will be aware of what kind of disservice they will receive if they purchase an ESEE product.
Mike
You go right ahead. Be sure you publish every email in entirety. If you leave anything out I will be sure and fill in the gaps.
Mike
