Ethics of selling knives that were originally modded for personal use

Inappropriate language for the general forum.

Ken C.
Super Mod.
 
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tyr_shadowblade said:
...snip...

Wave is a great design. Everyone should be allowed to incorporate it into their design, especially if they are custom folders rather than production pieces. I have seen "wave-like" things that are not technically waves incorporated into a few production folders, and either they looked like hell or just outright sucked.

Wave is an evolution of the folder, just as the thumbhole was. There should be more waved folders.
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I absolutely agree, I wish more knife manufacturers would use a wave feature. Even the Emerson one, Im sure it's not that expensive to license it.

...And I've always liked Charlie Mike's mod work! :thumbup: Waiting to see him make his own knife designs! He's got the artesan mind for it :)
 
I wish Emerson would drill/tap all his folders for L/R tip up. I see no common sense in waving to the rear when you can draw forward into reverse grip.
 
Charlie Mike said:
I wish Emerson would drill/tap all his folders for L/R tip up. I see no common sense in waving to the rear when you can draw forward into reverse grip.
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Sometimes a forward draw can be "fouled" by an aggressor just by touching/intercepting you hand. Then your timing would be off and you'd be fumbling. Sometimes a draw rearward while your off(alive) hand is defending your weapon hand, is the best way to get your weapon into play.
 
I have ground off the Wave on my Emerson.

May I sell it....ethically?

:rolleyes:


Gadgetaholic said it best -

"Modding your own knife for personal use = fine, do what you like.
A one off sale of a personal knife = fine, no matter what mods you have done.

Setting up a business buying and modding knives for sale, not quite so fine. Well, it would be OK if doing a mod of your own design, but copying a patented mod and running a business selling that mod - you really should seek permission from the patent holder first."
 
singularity35 said:
Sometimes a forward draw can be "fouled" by an aggressor just by touching/intercepting you hand. Then your timing would be off and you'd be fumbling. Sometimes a draw rearward while your off(alive) hand is defending your weapon hand, is the best way to get your weapon into play.
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I train on "clearing" the way with a sweep from my empty hand, thus getting through his block/strike.
 
I always wondered whether the one hand knives of the 19th century anticipated the wave. The hook is on the end of the blade instead of the back of the spine, but it's the same concept. I've read it came about because of all of the amputee Civil War vets.
 
Ecclesiastes 1:9 (New International Version)

9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
 
If someone patents a concept that others have been using before him, thus preventing anyone else from making knives in that style without paying tribute, is that ethical?
 
tyr_shadowblade said:
If someone patents a concept that others have been using before him, thus preventing anyone else from making knives in that style without paying tribute, is that ethical?
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I wondered the samething when people gave me crap for waving a couple Yojimbos a few years ago.

If you believe A.J. Russell (And I do) the one hand pocket opening design has been around since the 1860-1865. :) (link here click me)


And a pic of one of the Yojimbos I did :cool:

yosopen.jpg


yosclosed.jpg
 
So-Lo said:
I wondered the samething when people gave me crap for waving a couple Yojimbos a few years ago.

If you believe A.J. Russell (And I do) the one hand pocket opening design has been around since the 1860-1865. :) (link here click me)


And a pic of one of the Yojimbos I did :cool:

yosopen.jpg


yosclosed.jpg
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Nice work, that wave job is the only one I have seen, that didn't look like a downsy 8 year old on crank with a dremel tool went nuts.
 

Let's clear this up so this doesn't become and Emerson debate. This is NOT about the Wave and whether you think it's a legitimate patent or original or whatever. Start your own thread for that if you like. This is also not about any particular person. For the Emerson wave example, people do it all the time. It's not just any one member here or on any other forum. Accusations that I'm "baiting" people is insulting.

I think a lot of people are missing the point. The question already excluded the idea of selling items with a patent for the purpose of running or building a business. The question was specifically about mods that were originally done with the intent that the modder was going to use the knife him or herself. Can (s)he ethically place this item back onto the market without express permission from the patent holder?

Some people think one can do this, but one shouldn't be able to make a profit. At least one person said that one shouldn't be able to sell it at all, ie not even for a penny. And yet others said that there's a number of transactions one should be limited to before they fall under the category of douchebaggery.

Consider the follow scenario: Someone mods 90% of his knives with a patented feature. This individual gets into financial trouble, maybe foreclosure. He then feels that he needs to liquidate all of his non-essential items, I don't know, to feed his family or something. For those that hold the above positions, should he or shouldn't he sell this lot of items for as much as he can get?
 
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NDJeep said:
I have ground off the Wave on my Emerson.

May I sell it....ethically?

:rolleyes:


Gadgetaholic said it best -

"Modding your own knife for personal use = fine, do what you like.
A one off sale of a personal knife = fine, no matter what mods you have done.

Setting up a business buying and modding knives for sale, not quite so fine. Well, it would be OK if doing a mod of your own design, but copying a patented mod and running a business selling that mod - you really should seek permission from the patent holder first."
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Completely missing the point of the original question and giving the :rolleyes:. Outstanding.
 
Correction to post #48. They are called "one arm" or "one armed" knives. I think Bernard Levine shows examples in his book.

Kaizen, you shouldn't be surprised this thread drifted to the wave feature. It's probably the most common patented feature that users add to non-Emerson knives.

I remember guy in the Spyderco subforum years ago who argued passionately that adding a zip tie to a Spyderhole was unethical and illegal. :rolleyes:

If you don't like the way the thread is going you have the option to close it. The cat is out of the bag on wave discussion.
 
KeithAM said:
Correction to post #48. They are called "one arm" or "one armed" knives. I think Bernard Levine shows examples in his book.

Kaizen, you shouldn't be surprised this thread drifted to the wave feature. It's probably the most common patented feature that users add to non-Emerson knives.

I remember guy in the Spyderco subforum years ago who argued passionately that adding a zip tie to a Spyderhole was unethical and illegal. :rolleyes:

If you don't like the way the thread is going you have the option to close it. The cat is out of the bag on wave discussion.
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It's not that I'm surprise or angry. I just want to focus this thread on it's intended topic. I think I can suggest that without resorting to closing the thread immediately, can't I?
 
Kaizen1 said:
It's not that I'm surprise or angry. I just want to focus this thread on it's intended topic. I think I can suggest that without resorting to closing the thread immediately, can't I?
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How about pocket clips? Spyderco was the first to put em on everything although I do remember a Buck 110 in Ti that had a clip.
 
tyr_shadowblade said:
If someone patents a concept that others have been using before him, thus preventing anyone else from making knives in that style without paying tribute, is that ethical?
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Hi,

No, that is called "prior art" and cannot be patented. This is a lot of what patent attorneys do is search for prior art in preparation to filing for a patent or to shoot down a patent.

dalee
 
Kaizen1 said:
Completely missing the point of the original question and giving the :rolleyes:. Outstanding.
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I understood your original post completely.

Thats why I agreed with and posted Gadgetaholics assessment of the situation.

Nothing's changed since then. I believe a person can mod to their hearts content. They can then sell that modded knife to whomever they choose.

It only gets sticky if and when they advertise and offer services that copy patented work...with the express intent to make a profit.

I could be completely wrong on this but thats the way I see it.
 
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