Ethics, price, value what does it all mean????

[kgd]

Seriously, we are a totally screwed up group of people. We pay more attention to little details than is healthy. We are fixated on the trivial and often overlook what is important....

What is important?

Well a knife the can get sharp, stays sharp, has a comfortable handle. You can use it for what you need to use it for. End of story.

Did Buck solve this? <-- yes they did
Did Kershaw solve this? <-- yes they did
Did Lynn Thomspson sort of piss you off with that last video <-- Yes he did
Did Cold Steel solve the above question <--- yes they did.

Sometimes I get myself stuck on this. Was it made in China or the USA (I'm a Canadian so they are both foreign countries to me). Did such and such owner claim to be a commando but turned out to be a supply clerk? Did Joeblow screw a guy out of shipping on that one time back in 1973?

I'm sort of interested in revisiting the pre-conceptions and stereotypes we have here. I know I have my share. Then a good bud of mine who has a friend that has a friend (with a hot cousin I might add), who dated a girl once that had an uncle that said 'You know Lynn Thompson is actually pretty cool in the real world'......So should I just continue to make fun of him and his Farley-martial arts persona? Or should I just look at the steel, look at the product and make a judgement?

Don't get me wrong, I've been plenty judgemental of folks. Even had my own hide handed me once in awhile. I don't mind that. I think places like BF are meant for discussing, airing our dirty laundry and hashing it all out. An honorable person can put it on the line and then change their mind. Other folks seem to want to dig fox holes.

When do you draw the line on the foxholes? When do you say, never, I just won't patronize that company. How much credit do you put into innuendo about a company, versus personal experience? Who are the good good guys in your books and what are the rules of being a good guy that you judge them by?

Ethics threads always have a tendency to get controversial. The fanboys see it all in black and white, the bottom line boys see it all on price point. But YOU are here for more than that. YOU are here because you have a genetic defect that makes you like a sharpy thingy-majiggy. What really makes you tick? What gets your goat? Come now, admit it.....Its not just the product...There is something that brought you in, something that won you over. Why do you patronize certain companies? Why do you employ passive aggressive methods against others?

Just asking.........Well.....To be fair, I'm also asking if you post in this thread for every 3 bad things you say about a given brand try to post at least one good thing about them. Afterall, if they didn't have ANYTHING to offer you wouldn't be on a mission now would you?

Also the guys who are just stand up...No doubt. Name them. For me, ESEE - stand up without a doubt. I also have my cadre of custom dudes that I love, like Christof Harper and Walter Davis.....Lets also hear about the honest brokers too...and where they can improve.

ESEE? Well lets get some warmth in there. I want to see some wood handle and smiley Jeff. Christof? Hmm, he just needs to get cracking...Tired of all this I'm moving and busy stuff. Christoff - make more stuff bud cause I love it when that stuff makes it to the fixed blade for sale forum. Walter? Dang bud - you got the ergos but you need to pop out that creativity stuff more often. Let see some more super SOG improvements. Lets see a super-duper bowie. I know you have it in you....and I miss seeing your creative stuff on the fixed blade area!

 

[Ankerson]

I judge the knives based on what they are and let them stand on their own merit and leave the politics to the Politicians.

I refuse to get involved in the Politics of the knife industry....

 

[ThePharce]

I concur...though I do understand and respect why some people feel the way they feel.

I buy knives based on two things: 1: my needs at the time and 2: pure, unadultrated IMPULSE!!!

 

[kgd]

I buy knives based on two things: 1: my needs at the time and 2: pure, unadultrated IMPULSE!!!

Cool that is freedom right there!

 

[unit]

I concur...though I do understand and respect why some people feel the way they feel.

I buy knives based on two things: 1: my needs at the time and 2: pure, unadultrated IMPULSE!!!

yup...that about sums it up for me.

 

[ThePharce]

Wife gave me an early Christmas present, BTW....Izula II w/ my name embossed on the blade. She's pretty danged cool!

 

[Reznik572]

Don't get so excited about things. Who cares what others think...

 

[Dorito Monk]

We really are some weird buggers, aren't we? I don't often think about it, but you're absolutely right.

Just asking.........Well.....To be fair, I'm also asking if you post in this thread for every 3 bad things you say about a given brand try to post at least one good thing about them. Afterall, if they didn't have ANYTHING to offer you wouldn't be on a mission now would you?

Sounds like a good idea.

Here are some good things about a couple of brands I've whined about in the past:

Cold Steel:
- I like to make fun of their marketing all around, and I've whined about some bad experiences I've had with their products in the past, but I've bought a couple newer knives from them this year. They actually make some pretty damn good knives. I've recently bought an American Lawman and it's got a hell of a solid mechanism, a well ground blade, and pretty decent materials. I also bought a Braveheart sgian-dubh on an impulse, and it's at least as well made as any fixed blade I've ever owned. I was pretty surprised on both counts. I'm starting to look at this company as a viable option again.

Spyderco:
- I have whined a lot about their made-in-china knives (especially the steel they used on them) but having tried their seki and golden made blades, I've found that they generally have pretty outstanding quality all around. I used to stay away from them in general, but I've purchased four this past year alone. I still plan on getting a Sage 2 and a Paramilitary 2 at some point in the future.

Those are two examples of me revisiting a company that I initially dismissed and being really happy that I did.

 

[Gollum]

I'll never buy a knife made by Boker due to the fact they named a knife after Che Guevara. How immoral can you get naming a knife after Castro's executioner. I'm surprised they didn't name one "Adolf"

 

[kgd]

Cold Steel:
- I like to make fun of their marketing all around, and I've whined about some bad experiences I've had with their products in the past, but I've bought a couple newer knives from them this year. They actually make some pretty damn good knives. I've recently bought an American Lawman and it's got a hell of a solid mechanism, a well ground blade, and pretty decent materials. I also bought a Braveheart sgian-dubh on an impulse, and it's at least as well made as any fixed blade I've ever owned. I was pretty surprised on both counts. I'm starting to look at this company as a viable option again.

Spyderco:
- I have whined a lot about their made-in-china knives (especially the steel they used on them) but having tried their seki and golden made blades, I've found that they generally have pretty outstanding quality all around. I used to stay away from them in general, but I've purchased four this past year alone. I still plan on getting a Sage 2 and a Paramilitary 2 at some point in the future.

Those are two examples of me revisiting a company that I initially dismissed and being really happy that I did.

Good stuff Dorito!

 

[Brian Sargent]

I have so many knives that I'll realistically never need to buy another one.

I'm also an American citizen.

I've been on/off unemployment for the past year and a half.

I've had a few jobs where I've sat behind a desk at times ... but for the most part I've been in the field using my hands to make a product and earn a living.

Everyday I try and support the folks in my own country and the products that they are making and or growing.

I absolutely don't see a problem with that.

There are plenty of other countries that make great products.

I have no problem with that.

It is my choice to buy what I want and I try and not bad mouth others.

If I can buy a great product made in the USA ... I will and be proud of it.

I also have a great relationship with several knife makers in the USA .. I want to keep them in business and enjoy helping them as much as they help me by their services.

IMO there are differences of opinion based on ones occupation.

Folks that make things with their hands and ones that sit behind a desk have different views .... of course that is a very broad generalized statement and doesn't really work at all but ....

A knife, gun, truck and tools are very personal for most and money in the pocket really hits home.

I see my well being secured by products shipped and payed for leaving my country or falling into my own hands.

Basically ........ I would like to keep folks in my own country working and let the others fend for themselves.

I definitely look at this as a global economic thing.

I enjoy the knives of ML Knives, Justin Gingrich, Blind Horse, Jerry Busse, Victorinox and a few others ....

I buy what I want and it isn't personal ... it is what it is.

 

[Toyz]

As I get older I realize that most things are not worth getting uptight about.

The only thing that really bothers me about some companies is their misleading advertising.

Thats why we have forums.

 

[Brian Sargent]

As I get older I realize that most things are not worth getting uptight about.

The only thing that really bothers me about some companies is their misleading advertising.

Thats why we have forums.

I agree ... that .50 most likely solves most disputes.

 

[Rupestris]

As I get older I realize that most things are not worth getting uptight about.

Agreed. I don't uptight about who made my car, clothes, TV, whatever. I buy what I like and what suits my needs regardless of the antics of the maker (for the most part).

 

[Alann45]

Was it made in China or the USA (I'm a Canadian so they are both foreign countries to me).

Not really. Canada is just a US annex right?

To be fair, I'm also asking if you post in this thread for every 3 bad things you say about a given brand try to post at least one good thing about them.

Like "for a fat girl you don't sweat much"?

More seriously, aside from the more obvious things we all look for, one of the things I look for in a maker or dealer is a lack of hassle. To me, the whole knife thing is for pleasure, and nothing ruins that experience more than having to deal with hassles to get it done correctly.
From my observations, some folks seem to enjoy hassle. Maybe it adds something to the buying experience for them.

For example, I wanted to love Benchmade, but I just got tired of their iffy QC (and their annoying priceing policys). Great customer service (they don't sweat much either), but I really would rather avoid finding out how good a makers CS is.
Moved on to Spyderco and haven't looked back. Great products, interesting designs (yeah, they are ugly to some), and outstanding QC.
Kershaw always seems to do things well at a good price, and their ZT line is awesome.

Vendors are a mixed bag. We should count ourselves lucky that there really are a lot of very good knife vendors online. Amazingly Atlanta has no really decent knife stores, so I am forced to buy mostly online (we do have the Blade show though..yah us!)
New Graham and Knifeworks come to mind as being hassle free. I feel fortunate to have found both, they really bend over backwards to be helpful.

It's a competitive market, so some vendors try to be...uhh...creative to get your business. Recently I made a first purchase from a vendor who had an item I was looking for which was near impossible to get, and they had a decent price. They were pleasant and helpful on the phone. Gave free shipping, uncommon these days, but charged if you wanted insurance. Ok fine, placed the order and it comes, but they didn't pay for insurance (ok, they self insure, but still). The little cuteness with insurance put me off...but just a tad. I'll probably buy from them again but it did make we wonder why they do things that way.
Another fairly large vendor makes it perfectly clear in big red letters that once an order leaves his hands its YOUR problem if it doesn't show up. Ok fine, his right to do business how he likes, but the attitude just screams to me I don't want to hassle with this guy.

 

[kgd]

Not really. Canada is just a US annex right?

No...., but lets just say that Mexico won the 'free trade deal'

Like "for a fat girl you don't sweat much"?

More like, 'hey your are a bit of chubby heaven and I like them big boobies, referring to the species of bird of course'...

More seriously, aside from the more obvious things we all look for, one of the things I look for in a maker or dealer is a lack of hassle. To me, the whole knife thing is for pleasure, and nothing ruins that experience more than having to deal with hassles to get it done correctly.
From my observations, some folks seem to enjoy hassle. Maybe it adds something to the buying experience for them.

For example, I wanted to love Benchmade, but I just got tired of their iffy QC (and their annoying priceing policys). Great customer service (they don't sweat much either), but I really would rather avoid finding out how good a makers CS is.
Moved on to Spyderco and haven't looked back. Great products, interesting designs (yeah, they are ugly to some), and outstanding QC.
Kershaw always seems to do things well at a good price, and their ZT line is awesome.

Vendors are a mixed bag. We should count ourselves lucky that there really are a lot of very good knife vendors online. Amazingly Atlanta has no really decent knife stores, so I am forced to buy mostly online (we do have the Blade show though..yah us!)
New Graham and Knifeworks come to mind as being hassle free. I feel fortunate to have found both, they really bend over backwards to be helpful.

It's a competitive market, so some vendors try to be...uhh...creative to get your business. Recently I made a first purchase from a vendor who had an item I was looking for which was near impossible to get, and they had a decent price. They were pleasant and helpful on the phone. Gave free shipping, uncommon these days, but charged if you wanted insurance. Ok fine, placed the order and it comes, but they didn't pay for insurance (ok, they self insure, but still). The little cuteness with insurance put me off...but just a tad. I'll probably buy from them again but it did make we wonder why they do things that way.
Another fairly large vendor makes it perfectly clear in big red letters that once an order leaves his hands its YOUR problem if it doesn't show up. Ok fine, his right to do business how he likes, but the attitude just screams to me I don't want to hassle with this guy.

Good points, but the vendor is less of a thing for me compared to the maker/manufacturer. By and large the vendor can do some fantastic stuff or some stupid stuff but I don't really hold it to the manufacturer. Switch vendors if you need to. Also, most vendors sell multiple brands so it really is a choice among your favorites among a given vendor.

A couple of good guys. I like BRK&T knives. I've had two of them and the quality is amazing. You pay for it, but they are great. Bads, there are rumors of stuff about swindles and things in the past. They haunt me slightly, but then again the company has built a totally unique niche, keeps fresh products coming to the market and does an awesome balancing act of incorporating high end materials, great designs and beautiful stuff. But they cost, as they should for quality.

There is Becker. Makes a great set of knives, cheap, robust highly functional. I hate their scales. Every Becker in my hand feels like a dumbbell. I want to love them, but I can't. The blade is super functional and priced right. The slabs, whether Grivory or Micarta feel horrible to me. I own the Becker family book, its our bible. I've had two of their knives and they get turned around because a Becker handle and my hand are as incompatible as eggs and turnips. Unfortunately, their micarta slabs are pretty much identical to the grivory ones. Is Becker/kabar a respectable company? You betcha? Do they make high value product? Yep and many people love them. I just don't. A custom handled Becker - would be great!

 

[lilknifekid]

I have a cold steel SRK for years and it has held up great. The marketing is kind of silly but I dont hold it against them. At the same time, not alot of there designs are to my liking but thats ok.

Spyderco-only one I have is a persistance and it is great quality even if it is made in China. I dont think Spyderco has anything unsavory going on over there and the knife is great.

Tops-One, maybe two designs I like. Dont own any. A lot of their designs seem silly and its over priced.

ESEE-great knives, great people. Bulletproof warrenty. Have a 4, AH-1 and fire kit, looking forward to the lazor strike in the spring hopefully.

BRKT-Sharp as a razor, great quality. Bulletproof warrenty. Need some larger knives from them, only ones I have are PSK and Bravo Necker.

I am not really picky with the knives that I buy. I actually dont like high polished blades. As long as it comes decently sharp and has a decent fit and finish and fits my needs, its ok.

 

[guitarhead1]

I used to be a steel snob, but not any longer. At work, as a career firefighter, I stake my life on a fixed blade in AUS 6.

 

[koyote]

Christof? Hmm, he just needs to get cracking...Tired of all this I'm moving and busy stuff. Christoff - make more stuff bud cause I love it when that stuff makes it to the fixed blade for sale forum.

I'm cracking. I'm not getting what I want to get up on the fixed blade threads right now because:

1: Eira, Leif, and Astrid. New baby and holiday season with kids just eats up little bits of time in an invisible, but really huge way.

2: Order backlog. I'm sitting here with a round 2 dozen orders that should have been finished (by my opinion) a month to 2 months ago, and while I'm just about caught up (I have EIGHT of those orders sitting on the bench getting finish work, and the rest are anywhere from heat treated to ready for handle glue up) it gets me a bit ... disorganized trying to manage it alongside restocking supplies and continuing the shop setup.

Almost there, and some great stuff is coming, just need to get a balance on my creativity side and my orders. And more heat in my shop.

 

[kgd]

I used to be a steel snob, but not any longer. At work, as a career firefighter, I stake my life on a fixed blade in AUS 6.

Cool, I think steel is the most over-hyped thing in the knife industry. But you do want a knife that has been heat-treated appropriately and will do what you expect it to do.

Keep it coming guys!