It is strange to see a thread advocating the abandonment of ethics because the exact same steel, titanium, G10, carbon fiber, etc are used with the exact same liner, frame, back, etc. locks, or the same leather/kydex/nylon sheaths, in slightly different shapes and colors.
huh? I don't think ken, and certainly not the "thread" as a mass, has advocated that. Questioned why it isn't so, so we can figure out why we do what we do yes. Advocated, no
To me, the materials and performance are the unimportant details. There are very few patented mechanisms that make enough of a difference in actual performance between knives that I would completely abandon the idea of looking at who makes them just to get that gargantuan increase in 'knifeness'. Actually, there are none that I know of personally.
yes and no. No, I know of no patented things that really, on any significant level, revolutionize knives for all the world and all of history. But how a maker or company puts it together
is important. Generally, at least the care taken in doing this will be reflected in other areas of ethics, as is usual.
If it is someone's prerogative to buy based on company location, owner actions and history, or really anything else, they simply do not sacrifice an iota of performance. There are alternatives for 'tacticals', alternatives for 'bushcrafting', alternatives for 'precision manufacturing', alternatives for 'folding prybars', alternatives in every field. There are no steels, locks, sheath attachments, or patterns that don't have an analog from another brand/maker.
Yes.
*****
I find it interesting that Japanese products were once called Jap Crap, and that much of the western world despised the country into the late 40's. Now well respected companies like Spyderco get high quality blades from Japan and we see this country as an Allie and respected member of the civilized world. With all due respect to our neighbors in the U.S., maybe some of the animosity toward China\Taiwan, whoever, is a touch of ethnocentrism due to domestic economic conditions.
My 4th grade teacher had an issue with "jap crap". He spent a couple years in a POW camp during the second world war. I guess his "ethnocentricism" had some personal aspects.
A few points:
1: the lumped label "china/taiwan" is ludicrous. Most of the animosity towards China (especially from people who realize there's a difference between the two) isn't animosity towards Taiwan. Big difference. And it can be a big
material difference, not just political and ethical. I own machine tools of the same approximate pattern from both and the taiwanese stuff is always finished better and runs more true.
2: In tools, machinery, knives, and such- When you got to areas beyond the bottom 20% of the performance curve, the "ethnocentrism" is often based at least as much on actual usefulness and performance as it is on "domestic economic conditions". (I' using a lot of quotes becuase I think some of these words might mean some very different things to us)
Explanation: take a..screwdriver. powered or unpowered. the majority (80% would be the classic number from psychology) will be using only the bottom 20% of the expected design capacity of the screwdriver. Tightening hinge screws. Whether or not the head shape, shear strength, and materials follow any actual engineering specs is irrelevant. So is, to a large extent, handle comfort and durability/chemical resistance/conductivity. What's important is 20 screwdrivers for $9.99!
Now, let's hit the 20% who are .. gunsmiths, electricians, shop teachers, machinists, professional auto mechanics, whatever. These guys can't have stripped screws and might have to be backing out something that needs more than 4 foot-pounts of torque to break loose. They may have to deal with conductivity of the handle, or chemical resistance of the materials.
They also need
support for their purchases. not "use grasses of safety with tools!" printed on the package. and definitely Not Engrish 3 page manuals done on a worn out 1950s mimeograph for a $1500 machine tool! (I've seen this)
For these guys your label of "ethnocentrist" bias against chinese imports means being able to do the job, possibly even stay alive.
3: politics and money. Oh yeah. I avoid "made in the PRC" whenever I reasonably can. And yep, I am absolutely an ethnocentric bigot.
I see no reason to support a state that is an enemy of not just my nation-state, but the overall way of life of my nation and most others. China isn't building up massive trade imbalances to be
nice. I see no reason to support slave labor in any form, under any name.
(yes, I am aware that china isn't the only player in the slavery game. even our own prisons get into it with corporate favors. But we're talking about china right now, no AA reservation desks)
Ethnocentrist? Well, not exactly. Not according to the actual definition of ethnocentrism. Culturally biogoted?
ABSOLUTELY. I will be
completely up front and unapologetic about my belief that some cultures have a higher value than others. For all the ultra-conservative whining and moaning about our liberal failure as a country, the US has in many respects led the way in increasing value-of-human-life and quality-of-human life. With a lot of help and leapfrogging with some other nations in Europe, yes. But we've been pointing the way (even when we get hypocritical in performance) since we started using our blood to
pave the way back in the 18th century.
I will, as far as is reasonably possible, always choose to buy from the US first, North America second, and "roughly acceptable human-liberty oriented state" third. China isn't even fourth.
But, for those of us who can't see a value in the ethical side, the simple fact is that slave labor produces slave quality.
That is measurable.
And, as the economic bases have changed, it's getting surprising to see how little value their is in "cheap chinese imports". I can get a pair of regular western boots made in china for about $85, a pair handmade in Mexico with higher quality materials for $100, or I can get a *custom fitted* pair from a cottage industrialist in my own town for about $160. Twice the price of the chinese ones, but they'll last more than twice as long
and can be fixed.
Ethnocentric? Maybe. I've had beer with the local bootmaker. So...maybe.
Value oriented? yes, if looked at intelligently.
Anyway, I actually appreciate multiple views on a product, including dissent if appropriate. Junk is junk and a rip off or scam should be exposed. I just prefer to try to do this with giving a person\company a chance to explain their side first. And of course being human is to make mistakes. Have a wonderful holiday season everyone.:thumbup:
