Even MORE guys in NYC getting their knives confiscated, arrested, etc...

G

GarageBoy

Joined
May 23, 2003
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On Spyderco's forum, it seems that NYPD is still at it. This makes at least 6-7 of us. What CAN be done?
 
I don't work in law enforcement and I don't personally know anyone who does, so I ask this question in absence of any real knowledge. I don't mean to offend anyone, but it's something that always kicks around my head when this subject comes up.

Will some police officers take the opportunity to confiscate a knife or cite/arrest someone for carrying a knife that is not illegal in order to increase statistical counts that are used as indicators of whether or not they're "getting the job done," so to speak? To me, it's like a person walking down the street with a knife clipped in their pocket can be an easy target for a cop to stop and question. If they're presented with a knife that's not illegal, but they decide to take it or arrest you anyway for some violation that you feel can't be reasonably substantiated, I don't know what one can do at that moment in time, especially in a city like NYC with such a large force.

I don't know if this an applicable comparison, but at my last job in fraud prevention if we stopped 3-4% fewer orders than the previous month, the boss' first thought was that we must not be doing our jobs well enough. They did not really give any consideration to the possibility that there just happened to be that much less fraud in a given month, even though fraud did ebb and flow in such ways from time to time. So if we go back to the police and statistics say precinct X only confiscated 75% as many weapons this year compared to last year, is it thought the officers are somehow lacking in doing their job and they therefore need to confiscate more weapons, which may lead to some officers picking off knives from folks that shouldn't be taken?
 
Where on the syderco forum is the thread? I just looked and did not see it. As for what you can do in NYC, the only answer at the momment is know and obey the law, which I know you have first hand experience with. I don't foresee any revision of the knife laws that would help us users/collectors coming anytime soon in NYC under Bloomberg......
 
First, don't wear your knife so the clip shows. Out here in the country I notice just about every male has a clip showing on his pocket. When I go into the city, on business trips or to a social function I keep the knife down in my pocket. Displaying your knife unless you are in work clothes or work uniform is bound to draw some attention. All LEOs are not created equal and interpretation of laws is open to their discretion sometimes. I went down to the courthouse a few years ago and forgot they had metal detectors there and was carrying my Spyderco Terzuola, and I wasn't about to give that one up, so I headed back to the car to deposit it there. Maybe also carry something expendible. It makes you think twice.
 
When I visit my family in NY (Brooklyn) I carry a Mini Griptian with the clip removed so I won't clip it to my pocket accidentally.
Just keep the blades low in the pocket and a low profile and you are fine.
 
why is where you need a knife or gun the most .. the more they try to disarm us ?

dont sound american at all .. these posts make me real sad ..
when only the military and the police are allowed to carry any weapon at all ...

when i leave alaska on buisness trips, i end up checking carry laws if i cant carry a pocket knife and my buck 110 i dont need to be there that bad ..and find another way to do the meeting video confrenss or something ..
 
Thanks for the link GarageBoy. I sort of doubt this happened as told. It would seem very unlikely that a off duty Suffork PO would allow his knife to be taken with out any paperwork. Any NYS PO is allowed to armed on and off duty as they have an obligation to take police action if certain crimes are committed with in their presense any where in NYS. The "officer" may be a EMS worker as they are part of the Special Ops service in Nassau and Suffork but are not POs.......Just my thoughts on this one....
 
wayne_l said:
why is where you need a knife or gun the most .. the more they try to disarm us ?
Click to expand...

This is a circular argument, although I know by "us", you mean "the good guys." LEO's [probably] have a difficult time distinguishing between good guys and bad guys. Too bad the bad guys don't wear striped shirts and masks anymore.

Tough laws mean less weapons on the street. Fewer weapons mean safer streets(I know, that depends on who you ask). Safer streets lead to relaxed laws. You can see where this is going.

If only we could all live in a small community, where everyone knows everyone, and you can't get away with being a thug.
 
never.to.sharp what you say is true, and I wish I had a house in the 1960 Mayberry and Andy Taylor and Barney Fife were the law in town. I grew up in NYC and was a NYC LEO for far too long ( not anymore) and todays force behaves in a way that leaves me shaking my head most of the time. I only see things getting worse as to who is enforcing the law in NYC as the new LOWER starting pay has left fewer people taking the test, so the standards have to drop to get recuirts in. There are many new officers who have been arrested more than once and are still allowed to join the NYPD.....Great stuff right
 
tom19176 said:
Thanks for the link GarageBoy. I sort of doubt this happened as told. It would seem very unlikely that a off duty Suffork PO would allow his knife to be taken with out any paperwork. Any NYS PO is allowed to armed on and off duty as they have an obligation to take police action if certain crimes are committed with in their presense any where in NYS. The "officer" may be a EMS worker as they are part of the Special Ops service in Nassau and Suffork but are not POs.......Just my thoughts on this one....
Click to expand...

http://spyderco.com/forums/showpost.php?p=372133&postcount=22

It sounds like the Suffolk County Officer was not only a cop- but an ESU (I assume Suffolk ESU is a SWAT-like unit like NYCPD ESU is) cop at that.

I'm sort of leary of some of the stuff posted over there- cops riding around in cabs looking for suspects just sounds off. And the Suffolk County LEO incident, that sounds suspect too. I've heard of plenty of out-of state LEOs that recieved very fraternal treatment from NYPD officers while packing under HR258/Law Enforcement Officer Protection and Safety Act.
 
never.to.sharp said:
Tough laws mean less weapons on the street. Fewer weapons mean safer streets(I know, that depends on who you ask).
Click to expand...

Tough laws mean only people who don't mind being criminal. I guarantee that all the drive by's in California with all the tough gun control means those must be registered weapons????? or the next guy who gets robbed in NY ask the dude with the gun if he has a permit for it. What? you mean you just ignored the laws to carry that gun around and rob people. (OH, it makes YOUR job of robbing people/car jacking/ home invasion robberies much safer!).
 
mp510, the reason I questioned wheter he was a Police Officer or not is because in Nassau and Suffolk Counties the non PO emerency service personnel wear the same uniform, and a near identical badge and are part of the Emenerncy Services Division, but the are not actual Officers. I am still betting this is the case on this one. As for NYPD using taxi cabs, this one is true !! That started with the anti-crime units in the 1970s and still goes on today. Whenever you see two guys in the front seat and no one in the back......well enough said....
 
tom19176 said:
mp510, the reason I questioned wheter he was a Police Officer or not is because in Nassau and Suffolk Counties the non PO emerency service personnel wear the same uniform, and a near identical badge and are part of the Emenerncy Services Division, but the are not actual Officers. I am still betting this is the case on this one. As for NYPD using taxi cabs, this one is true !! That started with the anti-crime units in the 1970s and still goes on today. Whenever you see two guys in the front seat and no one in the back......well enough said....
Click to expand...

Tom- as always, your knowledge and insight is far superior to mine, 'specially on NYPD matters.

The taxi-cab units are definetely unorthodox to say the least:eek: Apparentely it works...
 
I made a post awhile back in June where I had been stopped and questioned for my pocket clip. I would like to mention that though while aggressive, those 4 cops were professional. They looked and acted like cops. I was just pissed about the situation. Now that I'm aware of that law I have kept my knives(all legal) in my pocket(except when at work) and have kept a lookout for patrols. What I have noticed since I have been forced to feel like a criminal is those cops that stopped me were most rare. Almost half of all the rookie cops(the future NYPD) I have observed here are either sloppily dressed, have an unprofessional bearing, or just have a bad demeanor in general. I have never seen cops wearing cornrolls on their head till I came here. Cornroll mulletts on top of that, while in uniform!
I've seen cops be-bopping down the sidewalk like their still in high school whistling at the chickies or chatting with their babies momma on the cellphone.
I've had foot patrol guys say something to me and I didn't understand a word out of their mouths. Whatever country they were from they need to speak english clearly if I am to be expected to comply. I don't want to get shot because some fumble-mouthed slob told me to stop or whatever and I said "Wa?". I guess this is the first wave of lower standard recruits the city felt we needed:

http://www.nystpba.org/pages/public/showPubDocDetails.asp?news_id=1698

Granted I've encountered the "Old guard" NYPD as well and they are professional, look and act like PO's but I think they are dwindling. They are being replaced by individuals whom I don't feel comfortable having firearms and the ordained authority to tell me what to do.

I feel bad for the real cops here having to deal with these rookies and for the citizens who will have to deal with them soon.

I have the utmost respect for LEO's I have a few in my family and I almost enlisted. I am prior service(Navy) and maybe I'm just being too critical. I just think NYC has dropped the ball. I'm looking forward to moving back to the civilized world and leaving this 3rd world country behind.
 
kiehlory, Thanks for the link. It failed to mention that several new recruits have serious past crimes on their record. There are several things that are over looked now for all recuirts, and if you are a female or minority you could be out on parole and they may let you swear in these days.....
 
This advice was given in the other thread about this subject but it is still viable.

Write the press, call the local news station, write your congressman and keep doing it. Basically, nothing gets done if you do nothing. You can look at every single online video site and find local news reports of the odd and mundane, cited and served while carrying a legal pocketknife fits in there perfectly and gets exposure to the public.
 
I'm in Colorado and just got call from Dean's List, actor son. Arrested when undercover cops saw his Spyderco Police Stainless Steel ~ C07 clip on his pocket. Cops said knife was a "gravity knife" and booked him. Is it a "gravity knife." He's bummed and so am I. Does Spyderco object to this classification of one of its most popular knives? Any advise? Lis
 
Lis, they are gravity knives unless the blade has been tightened so that they will not flick open. Spyderco has no influence on how the law classifies its product.
 
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