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That's a sweet McLux Carrot.
"This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster, but an elegant weapon for a more civilized age."
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Even MORE guys in NYC getting their knives confiscated, arrested, etc...
- Thread starter GarageBoy
- Start date
That's a sweet McLux Carrot.
"This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster, but an elegant weapon for a more civilized age."
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That's a sweet McLux Carrot.
"This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster, but an elegant weapon for a more civilized age."
you digress well, my young apprentice.
Morimotom, I WISH the NYPD has some resonable defintion of a gravity knife that would even consider the knife's design, but they do not. Any thing that can be flicked open ( even with a very hard flick, holding the blade, flicking down ward ,etc) is a NY Gravity knife. If you look at the Federal Definition there is not even a requirement for the knife to lock to be considered a banned knife.
This is the FEDERAL Law that defines banned switchblades......how many folding knives could be included in this ban ???
The term "switchblade knife" means any knife having a blade which opens automatically -
(1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife, or
(2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both
The term "switchblade knife" means any knife having a blade which opens automatically -
(1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife, or
(2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both
So is the Victorinox OHT legal to carry in NYC or not? No I didn't try holding the blade by the thumb-hole and flicking it open. It's not supposed to be used that way. Wouldn't that make every knife with a thumb-hole illegal in the city? Wouldn't the Leatherman Wave, Charge, and Surge be illegal too?
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No I didn't try holding the blade by the thumb-hole and flicking it open. It's not supposed to be used that way. Wouldn't that make every knife with a thumb-hole illegal in the city? Wouldn't the Leatherman Wave, Charge, and Surge be illegal too?
Read this good news/bad news article from ATKI.org.
http://www.akti.org/news-updates/NY-utility.html
"Now comes a ray of hope. Senior District Judge Jack B.Weinstein (United States District Court - Eastern District of New York) in U.S. v. John Irizarry, issued a ruling on August 31, 2007, that recognizes we cannot punish potentially millions of law-abiding citizens for carrying knives they use on the job."
...
"AKTI cautions that this case result does not guarantee you will not be arrested in New York for carrying a one-hand opening knife. In fact, the new test cleverly developed is to grab the suspect knife by the blade and flip the handle open (which is much easier than grabbing the handle and flipping the blade open).So if you get stopped with a one-hand opener, you are very likely to be arrested."
"AKTI cautions that this case result does not guarantee you will not be arrested in New York for carrying a one-hand opening knife. In fact, the new test cleverly developed is to grab the suspect knife by the blade and flip the handle open (which is much easier than grabbing the handle and flipping the blade open).So if you get stopped with a one-hand opener, you are very likely to be arrested."
:barf: I wonder what Victorinox and Leatherman would have to say about that. Apparently their multitools are now "weapons".
Oh well at least I can still carry my Vic Hiker.
:barf: I wonder what Victorinox and Leatherman would have to say about that. Apparently their multitools are now "weapons".
Oh well at least I can still carry my Vic Hiker.
auspx, there is nothing a maker can do EXCEPT the one thing they refuse to do, which is pay for the legal defense of a test case to determine what a gravity knife and dangerous knife really is under NY law. Home Depot did not even want to send anyone until the very end, yet they will galdly take your money while they sell you one.
About two weeks back I was visiting my company's property on 42 nd street in NYC ( the Hilton Hotel/Wax museum/Ripleys/Dave and Busters/AMC/etc) and I saw a Mid Western looking visitor come out of the Hotel with a " I just got off a horse" walk. He was a big guy with a big attitude and I l clearly saw a knife clip on his jeans pocket right next to his big silver belt buckle. I tried to stop him to warn him about the NYC knife law, but he would not stop and kept walking to 42 and 7 Ave where he was approached by two foot officers from the NYPD. Within ten minutes he was in the back of a police car in cuffs........
About two weeks back I was visiting my company's property on 42 nd street in NYC ( the Hilton Hotel/Wax museum/Ripleys/Dave and Busters/AMC/etc) and I saw a Mid Western looking visitor come out of the Hotel with a " I just got off a horse" walk. He was a big guy with a big attitude and I l clearly saw a knife clip on his jeans pocket right next to his big silver belt buckle. I tried to stop him to warn him about the NYC knife law, but he would not stop and kept walking to 42 and 7 Ave where he was approached by two foot officers from the NYPD. Within ten minutes he was in the back of a police car in cuffs........
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humm ...on this now..
personaly..
i belive that all govt workers including local, state and fed- police and fire and rescue
should have the same laws apply to them at ALL times ...
and untell i have the right to carry any thing taken away
they carry nothing i can not carry...
personaly..
i belive that all govt workers including local, state and fed- police and fire and rescue
should have the same laws apply to them at ALL times ...
and untell i have the right to carry any thing taken away
they carry nothing i can not carry...
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what the hell are you talking about???
save it for whine and cheese, and learn to use spell check.
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- 8,151
oh ... sorry that you did not seem to under stand any thing said...
as to spell check ... the dict is changing all the time...
and you are right wine & chese would be a better place for my comments...
i feel knife laws need to be repealed ...
people will use any thing to do harm...
only an armed popluance insures freedom..
Not really. A company like Leatherman or Victorinox won't simply give up NYC as a viable market for their products. Virtually every Home Depot around here sells the LM Wave. More people live here than in many States of the U.S.
If enough people (maybe ten thousand or so) informed LM and Victorinox about these idiotic laws and prosecutions, you bet they would lobby NY State and City to stop classifying their multitools as weapons.
Or am I being too optimistic?
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fair enough. :thumbup:
auspx...too optimistic.....Home Depot sold 62,000 of the folding locking utility knives in NY but they would not send a rep to the guys trial until the defense lawyer subpeoned one, and then they sent a low level store manager. There is VERY little, enforcement of the sale of knives. I have said many times here, go after the sellers and finally there maybe a good case on what the law really bans. Lowes in Staten Island sells Sog Assited openers, KMart sells several lockbacks that all flick open and lock a few blocks away.....let them test the waters on a legal definition.
The makers would not care at all.....read the warnings on the labels of most knife boxes...." we can not know the many different knife laws around the country so we are not responsible....."
The makers would not care at all.....read the warnings on the labels of most knife boxes...." we can not know the many different knife laws around the country so we are not responsible....."
Tom is right.
Every time I have raised this very issue on the AKTI forum I hear crickets chirping.
In fairness to the manufacturers, they have to choose their battles. California was a huge victory re changing the statute. Why won't they do it in New York? Maybe because their lawyers tell them they won't win -- who knows. Look at the WSJ article and the culture around NYC, and you see lots of people (inlcuding judges and LEOs) who equate knives with weapons. And the advertisers don't help.
The big problem, in my opinion, is that so many folks have gotten away from the concept of knife as tool because fewer and fewer people need a sturdy a knife as a tool as they become more and more depnedent on assisted living, at least where I live.
I can get by with a small SAK most of the time, so I do, but a sebenza would be safer and better for some of the tasks I use it for.
Start arguing for waved tantos and assisted openers, though, and you risk opening up a can of worms. What distinguishes them from the gravity knives and the switchblades that the legislature in fact banned? I have made the arguments, and got some pretty blank looks -- distinctions without a difference is the phrase that comes to mind.
As with so many things, it's a cultural issue at its core. For many of us, we adhere to principles of self reliance that compel us to be well equipped to take care of ourselves. Others are perfectly willing to compromise these same principles in the interest of cooperative living and idealistic community standards.
It's all open to debate, but we self-reliant types are just as vulnerable to idealism as anyone else. And the reality in New York is that, in my experience, the government doesn't want you walking around armed. There are consequences for ignoring that.
But the PIZZA is good, so we have that going for us.
My 2 cents.
Every time I have raised this very issue on the AKTI forum I hear crickets chirping.
In fairness to the manufacturers, they have to choose their battles. California was a huge victory re changing the statute. Why won't they do it in New York? Maybe because their lawyers tell them they won't win -- who knows. Look at the WSJ article and the culture around NYC, and you see lots of people (inlcuding judges and LEOs) who equate knives with weapons. And the advertisers don't help.
The big problem, in my opinion, is that so many folks have gotten away from the concept of knife as tool because fewer and fewer people need a sturdy a knife as a tool as they become more and more depnedent on assisted living, at least where I live.
I can get by with a small SAK most of the time, so I do, but a sebenza would be safer and better for some of the tasks I use it for.
Start arguing for waved tantos and assisted openers, though, and you risk opening up a can of worms. What distinguishes them from the gravity knives and the switchblades that the legislature in fact banned? I have made the arguments, and got some pretty blank looks -- distinctions without a difference is the phrase that comes to mind.
As with so many things, it's a cultural issue at its core. For many of us, we adhere to principles of self reliance that compel us to be well equipped to take care of ourselves. Others are perfectly willing to compromise these same principles in the interest of cooperative living and idealistic community standards.
It's all open to debate, but we self-reliant types are just as vulnerable to idealism as anyone else. And the reality in New York is that, in my experience, the government doesn't want you walking around armed. There are consequences for ignoring that.
But the PIZZA is good, so we have that going for us.
My 2 cents.
Yes and the OHT would be safer and better than the Hiker for what I'm using it for anyway i.e. cutting cardboard boxes, opening packages, cutting rope, etc. Not long ago I had to use my SAK to cut open a plastic bottle because the cap was jammed. I do not feel safe using a non-locking blade for tasks like this.
I guess I'm preaching to the choir here but my point is why the hell is a knife considered dangerous or a "weapon" just because the blade can be opened with one hand? A Vic OHT isn't just a knife, it's a multitool. It's not even a dangerous knife. Its blade is designed to cut, not stab. Since 9/11 I used to carry it every day, never used it in public because we have too many sheep around here. But I would use it in an emergency.
But if I can be arrested for it... for being prepared... which is what NYC government tells us we are supposed to do... what's the point?
Liberalism really is a mental disorder. :grumpy:
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Weighing in for some of the liberals here, though I consider myself a moderate.
Lots of said liberals don't like Bloomberg either, and are pretty unhappy about the lowered salary for police officers (and trust me, poor young non-white liberals run into a lot more trouble with bully police officers than older more established-looking white conservatives do) , as well as some other policies not related to knives (like what he's doing to housing, for example). They may not believe that "an armed populace is a safer populace," but they very likely believe that one should be able to carry a SAK or other utility knife within the bounds of the law without having to be endlessly harassed about it or relieved of your property.
For the conservatives out there, I would argue you can't say that a knife is not a weapon and then include it under the definition of "arms." I agree that I keep my EDC around for emergencies, which include things like being trapped in a car accident, or a kid having his/her shoelace caught in an escalator rather than something idiotic like stabbing someone to death.
You know what though? Even in the NYC area there's starting to be a backlash against all this. Network news did a story recently about a girl, honors student, that got expelled because she accidentally brought the butter knife she used to make her breakfast to school in her pocket.
FIGHT STUPIDITY IN ALL POLITICAL LEANINGS!
Lots of said liberals don't like Bloomberg either, and are pretty unhappy about the lowered salary for police officers (and trust me, poor young non-white liberals run into a lot more trouble with bully police officers than older more established-looking white conservatives do) , as well as some other policies not related to knives (like what he's doing to housing, for example). They may not believe that "an armed populace is a safer populace," but they very likely believe that one should be able to carry a SAK or other utility knife within the bounds of the law without having to be endlessly harassed about it or relieved of your property.
For the conservatives out there, I would argue you can't say that a knife is not a weapon and then include it under the definition of "arms." I agree that I keep my EDC around for emergencies, which include things like being trapped in a car accident, or a kid having his/her shoelace caught in an escalator rather than something idiotic like stabbing someone to death.
You know what though? Even in the NYC area there's starting to be a backlash against all this. Network news did a story recently about a girl, honors student, that got expelled because she accidentally brought the butter knife she used to make her breakfast to school in her pocket.
FIGHT STUPIDITY IN ALL POLITICAL LEANINGS!
Just for the record, I don't believe that a Victorinox OHT or a Leatherman Wave have anything to do with the 2nd Amendment.
If someone was carrying just a knife, yeah I can see why the NYPD would be suspicious. I don't agree with their reasons for it, but I can see their point of view. I wouldn't carry a Buck knife in NYC and try to convince anyone that "it's only a tool". I know the environment I live in.
But if any OH-opening knife can be labeled a "gravity knife" simply by grabbing the blade and flicking it open... that puts multitools like the OHT and the Wave/Charge/Surge etc. into the "weapon" category and that's bullshit. This is not a law designed to protect the public. This is fascism.
Not long ago I read on this board that in the UK the cops will arrest you for carrying a LM Wave even though they agree it's a useful multitool. :barf: I hope NYC isn't going in that direction.
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not so sure id go so far to say it is facism, but in my opinion it is definitely an incorrect application of the law.